Black men beat up white gay couple at NYC Chelsea restaurant

[ChickenGuy]

This is going to make me very unpopular, but I'm pretty much in agreement with JayQueer here.

Let's cut to the chase - if this EXACT attack had taken place in, say, Alabama, and it had been a white redneck doing the attack, then everyone knows there'd have been about 10 times more outrage, and it'd be all over social media (and RIGHTLY so, I agree)

What I profoundly dislike to see is the VERY TELLING qualifying and downgrading and diminishing of the outrage, JUST because the guy is black. (and possibly because it's in cosmopolitan New York too)

You can even tell it in this thread, with most JUBbers shrugging their shoulders, saying meh, and trying to divert and distract from passing condemnation.

I already notice the classic techniques of (a) attacking the messenger, and (b) immediately questioning the authenticity and validity of the report.

Message from the gay community: We are against homophobia and homophobic attacks and slurs! (oh, but if you're a black guy doing the hate, we'll give you a free pass)

IT IS NO USE when the gay community does this. It makes a total mockery of its values, and reeks of hypocrisy.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

I'm attacking the messenger because he has a pattern of crying wolf - and, because he's on my list, I don't even know what the message is.

So again, can someone link me to this fallacy? Because there was already a very real story of a black man attacking a gay couple for the simple crime of kissing in the news that shows, no, I don't give a pass to people for being born black. Hate is hate; shit is shit. Shit don't come in degrees. A (dead) white supremacist told me that, and I agree. Well, one from a TV show.

 

[MorrisseyX]

I'm telling you what one local news station reported how this went down. I don't care one way or another but a chair over the head is a crime no matter who started it. It could have been fatal.

Yes a crime was committed but I do think the white gay guy is an idiot. You do not start fights according to the articles I read the white gay guys started the argument. The man who used the chair is an act of violence and he will be prosecuted but not every act of violence is a hate crime. There is this propensity of gay people to automatically think if violence occurs and it involves gay people it is a hate crime. This was indeed a crime but people are too quick to label this a hate crime without all the facts.

 

[MorrisseyX]

This is going to make me very unpopular, but I'm pretty much in agreement with JayQueer here.

Let's cut to the chase - if this EXACT attack had taken place in, say, Alabama, and it had been a white redneck doing the attack, then everyone knows there'd have been about 10 times more outrage, and it'd be all over social media (and RIGHTLY so, I agree)

What I profoundly dislike to see is the VERY TELLING qualifying and downgrading and diminishing of the outrage, JUST because the guy is black. (and possibly because it's in cosmopolitan New York too)

You can even tell it in this thread, with most JUBbers shrugging their shoulders, saying meh, and trying to divert and distract from passing condemnation.

I already notice the classic techniques of (a) attacking the messenger, and (b) immediately questioning the authenticity and validity of the report.

Message from the gay community: We are against homophobia and homophobic attacks and slurs! (oh, but if you're a black guy doing the hate, we'll give you a free pass)

IT IS NO USE when the gay community does this. It makes a total mockery of its values, and reeks of hypocrisy.

Are you serious? Maybe people are cynical because the op is a racist against black people. There is also a lot of racism in the gay community dan savage is proof of this. I do not think anyone is disputing a crime was committed we all saw the video. The man who shot the video said he heard no gay slurs. Why do people believe the white gay couple are telling the truth without all the facts? I think people are cynical because I have read articles where the guy who shot the video has a different story than the white gay couple. Why should people automatically support this white gay couple without all the facts? Just because we are all gay does not mean we have to have a herd mentality. I feel there is more to the story I read an article eye witnesses say the gay couple started the argument and were not passive victims. There is this belief I notice that some gay people do not want to believe a gay person can be a shit disturber or an ass hole.

 

[Soilwork]

What I profoundly dislike to see is the VERY TELLING qualifying and downgrading and diminishing of the outrage, JUST because the guy is black. (and possibly because it's in cosmopolitan New York too)

Did you read the same thread the rest of us did?

What we were shown was a blurry, shaky and mostly inaudible bar fight that started in the middle and didn't show what lead up to it. The OP's message is 'black people are all violent homophobes and liberals pretend they're not' and the rest of us are saying "Jayqueer is trying to stir up racist bullshit on JUB, it must be a day that ends with Y."

We don't KNOW if this was "homophobia" or not. There are a lot of conflicting reports, one of which comes from a more or less credible source that claims the guy swinging the chair is gay himself.

But since that didn't fit with the OP's personal mission, he said he's "not buying it." So don't pretend it's anyone else "immediately questioning the authenticity and validity of the report."

 

[JayQueer]

Are you serious? Maybe people are cynical because the op is a racist against black people.

I want to nip this accusation in the bud. I love Black people more than most people here. I have met native Africans (from Nigeria) now living in the US who are smarter than any other Americans I know.

I take issue when liberals (of any color) play the race card as a victim. Liberals have taught many Black people to believe that the whole world is against them & so if they can't make it as a professional athlete or a musician, then they can rely on the government to take care of them. Liberals have de-valued Black men since the 1960s-1970s by making welfare readily available to women with children. Without the need for a bread winner, Black families have fallen apart. Many young Black men don't have strong role models because their fathers may be in prison or they don't know them at all.

The most successful people (of any race or sexuality) are people who stop blaming society for their problems & work hard regardless of their situations.

MorrisseyX, do you know who Paul Williams is? He was a famous Black architect in Los Angeles, he worked from the 1930s to the 1970s. He was known as the "architect to the stars" -- he designed mansions for Hollywood celebrities in places like Beverly Hills, and he designed landmark buildings in California. Some of his white clients did not want to sit next to a Black man, so he learned how to write upside down so he draw for his clients sitting across the table.

Even though he faced discrimination he never complained or let it get the best of him. One of his famous quotes: "If I allow the fact that I am a Negro to checkmate my will to do, now, I will inevitably form the habit of being defeated."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Williams_(architect)

 

[Soilwork]

the op is a racist against black people.

I want to nip this accusation in the bud.

Don't bother. We ALL know what you are, JayQueer.

 

[JayQueer]

But since that didn't fit with the OP's personal mission, he said he's "not buying it." So don't pretend it's anyone else "immediately questioning the authenticity and validity of the report."

I said I wasn't buying it because I read what you referred me to. There was no proof or independently verifiable information posted, just "I know someone who gave me the T" and that "he told me this and that and I can't tell you his name but I looked up his profile and...."

That's a blogger saying "he said, she said" (or maybe "he said, he said" in this case). That's not a conflicting report.

 

[Soilwork]

I said I wasn't buying it because

blah blah blah.

Because it doesn't fit with your pattern of racist posts meant to flame people here and give you a chance to say "black people and liberals...."

 

[JayQueer]

Don't bother. We ALL know what you are, JayQueer.

Soilwork, I do not appreciate your vicious comments against my character & I'm not going to respond to your personal attacks any further. If you want to disagree with me on the issues, that's perfectly fine & even welcomed. If you want to attack me personally I'm not going to engage you.

 

[Soilwork]

If you want to attack me personally I'm not going to engage you.

Well, luv, in this big world... if you wanna dish it, you're going to have to learn how to take it.

 

[Soilwork]

...besides, it's not an "attack" on your "character." It's just pointing out a very clear pattern in your posts.

You post things like that to incite a big racist flame war and then immediately shift to things like Matthew Shepherd or Ferguson so you can work in "liberals all think... " or "black people and liberals say...."

It's something you do. We all see it, it's not even surprising anymore.

You might as well own it.

 

[JayQueer]

Well, luv, in this big world... if you wanna dish it, you're going to have to learn how to take it.

Right, you attack people's arguments and their ideas, but not them personally. If you have to attack someone's character, or their background/family/career, etc, you have already lost the argument.

As an example, I know what you do for a living because you're pretty open about on here. But many people (even people who identify politically as liberal) would probably be uncomfortable with themselves, their partner or son/daughter being in your line of work. If this were tit-for-tat, I could have brought that up. But I didn't because I can separate who you are as a person from the arguments you are making in this thread.

 

[Soilwork]

As an example, I know what you do for a living because you're pretty open about on here. But many people (even people who identify politically as liberal) would probably be uncomfortable with themselves, their partner or son/daughter being in your line of work. If this were tit-for-tat, I could have brought that up. But I didn't because I can separate who you are as a person from the arguments you are making in this thread.

well no... because before when you DID bring it up, people pointed out how fucking stupid it is to attack someone for making porn while posting on a fucking porn site.

 

[zombiekiller]

Hey both Soilwork and Jayqueer, do what I do. Put each other on your ignore list. I have Willyboy on my ignore list because for some reason he follows me around and accuse me of lying and being an attention whore. The ignore list does wonders. I still see him in my threads, and I'm sure he's still accusing me of lying and being an attention whore (I don't know, I don't see what he writes anymore), he doesn't bother me so much.

Just try using the ignore list. It works wonders.

 

[JayQueer]

well no... because before when you DID bring it up, people pointed out how fucking stupid it is to attack someone for making porn while posting on a fucking porn site.

Soilwork it seems like you have some kind of bone to pick with me. To you this may just be a "fucking porn site," but to me it was something more because it was where I first turned when I was first struggling with coming out (and still am, to a certain degree). I disagree with your views on almost everything, but I can agree to disagree and leave it at that. I wish you all the best.

 

[Soilwork]

Just try using the ignore list. It works wonders.

I'm perfectly capable of just ignoring people.

But what fun would that be?

 

[Soilwork]

Soilwork it seems like you have some kind of bone to pick with me.

Ya think?

I dislike your racist trolling. I also dislike your neocon trolling.

And I find your made-up stories about violent vegans crying in grocery stores over cheese buns to be absurd.

 

[zombiekiller]

Soilwork, I'd have to agree with Jayqueer on the porn site thing. Yeah, I know it's a porn site, but hot topic is the only part of it I use. I can't remember the last time I used the porn part. If anyone doesn't believe me, I give them permission to ask the admin to check my logs to verify. The stuff that gets me hard is too sick and twisted to be found here

 

[Soilwork]

Soilwork it seems like you have some kind of bone to pick with me. To you this may just be a "fucking porn site," but to me it was something more because it was where I first turned when I was first struggling with coming out (and still am, to a certain degree). I disagree with your views on almost everything, but I can agree to disagree and leave it at that. I wish you all the best.

BTW... something has been bugging me here...

you say you came here to deal with your own coming out issues. That's good.

But why didn't you go to a site that caters to conservative, mostly-white gay people? Well... because those don't exist.

Yet, you come here looking for a kindred spirit and support coming out and your first action is to start posting anything and everything that you can to get stir up trouble, let everyone here know how much you hate liberal gay people... the only people who really are on your side. It's like you came here internationally to sabotage the only chance you had to find some peace.

At some point you're going to have to accept that liberal gay people are not your enemies... they're really the only allies you have.

If you disagree... good luck in your search for a mostly-white, gay conservative forum that will help you with your coming out issues... but I don't think you're going to find one.

- - - Updated - - -

Soilwork, I'd have to agree with Jayqueer on the porn site thing. Yeah, I know it's a porn site, but hot topic is the only part of it I use. I can't remember the last time I used the porn part. If anyone doesn't believe me, I give them permission to ask the admin to check my logs to verify. The stuff that gets me hard is too sick and twisted to be found here

the point is that without the porn, the forum wouldn't exist.