Black or White...

[Willie Boy]

...you'd particularly want to do that before having the astoundingly ignorant gall to insinuate that minorities just make up racial identities because they can't see past some desire to hold prejudices against people.

I was just pointing out the fact that anybody can be racist, as your whining proves. Grow up child. These days the biggest bit of racism holding you back is your own.

 

[xbuzzerx]

These days the biggest bit of racism holding you back is your own.

"Racism is only a thing because minorities talk about it."

Must be great living in that thick of a bubble. The air a bit thin in there?

 

[otters]

"Racism is only a thing because minorities talk about it."

Must be great living in that thick of a bubble. The air a bit thin in there?

[Sometimes I think that Willie Boy might be Benvolio's doppelgänger, or the other way round?]

 

[Willie Boy]

"Racism is only a thing because minorities talk about it."

Must be great living in that thick of a bubble. The air a bit thin in there?

[Sometimes I think that Willie Boy might be Benvolio's doppelgänger, or the other way round?]

Are you guys that idiotic that that is what you got from my post? Because that is so far away from what was said you would have needed two years travel in a ship equipped with an FTL drive just to get to it. So stereotypical.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Are you guys that idiotic that that is what you got from my post? Because that is so far away from what was said you would have needed two years travel in a ship equipped with an FTL drive just to get to it. So stereotypical.

Maybe if everyone is always getting "astoundingly idiotic conclusions" from what you say, the problem isn't everyone else.

Though it was fairly clear what you were saying, and usually is. You aren't as bright or slippery as you apparently believe yourself to be.

 

[Willie Boy]

Maybe if everyone is always getting "astoundingly idiotic conclusions" from what you say, the problem isn't everyone else.

But everyone else isn't getting, as you say, "astoundingly idiotic conclusions". Only two of you. Unless, in your mind, the two of you comprise everyone.... Or is it just one of you with two accounts?

Though it was fairly clear what you were saying, and usually is...

And yet you completely misunderstood.

The point I was making, the one you just can't get, is that your comments are basically the same as gays have had to face as far as prejudice. Same for blacks. And transgenders. You are one who has received it from two sides, being black and gay. But instead of learning from it, you build it, grow it, and throw it out at others, simply because you've been hurt before. So yes, the biggest bit of racism that is currently holding you back from having a rewarding life is that which comes from within yourself and is directed at others. But you can't see past your own hate to see that. Your loss, entertainment for the rest of us as you have your little rants.

 

[xbuzzerx]

But everyone else isn't getting, as you say, "astoundingly idiotic conclusions". Only two of you. Unless, in your mind, the two of you comprise everyone.... Or is it just one of you with two accounts?


And yet you completely misunderstood.

The point I was making, the one you just can't get, is that your comments are basically the same as gays have had to face as far as prejudice. Same for blacks. And transgenders. You are one who has received it from two sides, being black and gay. But instead of learning from it, you build it, grow it, and throw it out at others, simply because you've been hurt before. So yes, the biggest bit of racism that is currently holding you back from having a rewarding life is that which comes from within yourself and is directed at others. But you can't see past your own hate to see that. Your loss, entertainment for the rest of us as you have your little rants.

How does pointing out that institutions in society treat people differently based on race turn ME into a racist, or make me similar to people who enacted prejudice against gay people?

If you don't like to hear or acknowledge it, that's really too bad, but it doesn't make me a racist for pointing it out, and it doesn't change the facts of reality.

I didn't "comprehend" the point you were trying to make because it makes absolutely no sense, and doesn't follow from the discussion whatsoever to conclude that "I am a racist." I'm also not a criminal like you implied in another disagreement, but I see this is simply the only tactic you have. Keep trying.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Or maybe some people are just prejudiced based on skin color and don't even bother to consider anything else. We are all human after all..... Then again, we don't really know about you do we?

I can always take a picture of me giving you the finger, if you'd like? I'm quite sure you'll recognize the silhouette of a human hand. Or maybe not - you might need to google that, too.

-well, roomie would have to take it, if I were being completely honest. Most of my pictures weren't pictures so much as wasted film attempts. Point still stands on your laziness and half assed potshots, though.

 

[kallipolis]

How does pointing out that institutions in society treat people differently based on race turn ME into a racist, or make me similar to people who enacted prejudice against gay people?

Noted, with thanks.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Also, no one misunderstood squat. I even linked how you were wrong on both the race and trans statements because, shocker, there's a mere handful of willfully obtuse people who insist on playing the "it's not me, it's you!" whenever anything seen as a negative besides being gay is brought up. Doesn't even matter what it is, you rush in like the negative version of superman to shove someone under the bus.

So, I linked first, in the apparently vain hope of curbing such stupidity. And oh my, did it work smashingly.

 

[otters]

Only two of you. Unless, in your mind, the two of you comprise everyone.... Or is it just one of you with two accounts?

LOL, obviously not only two

But to react on the allegation: xbuzzerx and I live on different continents, and even have different mother tongues; and, re race, I guess that it's quite unlikely that xbuzzerx would have my eye colour, although via my ancestry it were a genetical possibilty that I could have his eye colour

 

[zoltanspawn]

Well how about the fact that people who are "Black" in America are dozens or hundreds of different ethnic, national, tribal or cultural identities who were brought over during slavery, never had a common language or common identity, but had a common identity forced on them by the practice of slavery and a resulting century+ of distinctly segregated rights and legal statures as "black people."

I feel like my first answer already answered your latter question. Russian is a national or cultural identity. It is not, inherently, racial, although I am sure there are Russians who associate Russianness as only being possessed by people of certain ethnic lineages and not others who reside within the territorial boundaries of what is considered Russia.

In the U.S. being a Native American, formally, is political. It is not necessarily racial or cultural, and each tribe has its own standards of membership which may include either, both, or neither component to membership requisites. Even though everyone "treats it" simply as a heritage or a racial identity, you cannot claim Native identity either by showing your blood or simply by "choosing to identify that way" if you do not qualify for tribal membership. Well, verbally, you can, but it won't get you anywhere legally. Even colleges will follow up and inquire about tribal identity if someone applies as a Native American applicant.

Ultimately though if someone thinks all of this is contradictory, they just have an overly simplistic idea of these identity markers and think it's "just one thing" when someone tells you they are x, y and z, when that is not necessarily the case. "I'm Canadian" =/= "I am black" =/= "I am a Buddhist." Three distinct types of identity. You could be all three at the same time.

I appreciate your addition of nuance via types of identity, but I think it's fair to maintain nuance via degrees of identity too. This is why I think a flat "no" is inadequate. Your recognition that African-American identity houses myriad origins doesn't eliminate the convention of black identity altogether; which to me suggests that it's fairer to talk about different ways of being black, not that one is essentially black or essentially not. Also, I don't think saying "racial" identity is not fluid (unlike national or cultural identity) is self-evident and a satisfying reply; surely, there are components of racial identity that are adoptable, as in some socio-cultural circumstances, even if biological origins are not.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

I appreciate your addition of nuance via types of identity, but I think it's fair to maintain nuance via degrees of identity too. This is why I think a flat "no" is inadequate. Your recognition that African-American identity houses myriad origins doesn't eliminate the convention of black identity altogether; which to me suggests that it's fairer to talk about different ways of being black, not that one is essentially black or essentially not. Also, I don't think saying "racial" identity is not fluid (unlike national or cultural identity) is self-evident and a satisfying reply; surely, there are components of racial identity that are adoptable, as in some socio-cultural circumstances, even if biological origins are not.

Sounds like blackface to me.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Sounds like blackface to me.

One can become trans-gender, or trans-national, or trans-cultural, but each and every circumstance of becoming trans-racial is debasing?

 

[luckynumbah7]

I appreciate your addition of nuance via types of identity, but I think it's fair to maintain nuance via degrees of identity too. This is why I think a flat "no" is inadequate. Your recognition that African-American identity houses myriad origins doesn't eliminate the convention of black identity altogether; which to me suggests that it's fairer to talk about different ways of being black, not that one is essentially black or essentially not. Also, I don't think saying "racial" identity is not fluid (unlike national or cultural identity) is self-evident and a satisfying reply; surely, there are components of racial identity that are adoptable, as in some socio-cultural circumstances, even if biological origins are not.

I think you missed the bit where it's generally considered that you have to internalize aspects of your identity - and not just the aspects that are seen as a benefit to oneself or what goals they have. People who get shit on do internalize those views of themselves and you always have to keep an eye out for shit that might've snuck through. She is keeping no eye out because what she's said she's gone through she hasn't.

 

[luckynumbah7]

One can become trans-gender, or trans-national, or trans-cultural, but each and every circumstance of becoming trans-racial is debasing?

Adding the same prefix doesn't make the new words' meaning the same. The name of a land mass is not physical characteristics/gendered reactions is not a societies culture is not race.

Transgender has no hyphen, Mr Homo-sexual. You want to vote, then use your own experiences as as example like the rest of us. Because I just know your ass is gonna fuck up my experience and I've had quite enough of being an 'example' for people who've no idea what the fuck I'm saying.

Also, look up the damn meaning of transracial - it was a word before that woman got outed as white and it doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I think you missed the bit where it's generally considered that you have to internalize aspects of your identity - and not just the aspects that are seen as a benefit to oneself or what goals they have. People who get shit on do internalize those views of themselves and you always have to keep an eye out for shit that might've snuck through. She is keeping no eye out because what she's said she's gone through she hasn't.

As I said initially in post #6, I'm not defending Dolezal, and am not speaking about her specific case.

If you read my posts, you'll see I'm suggesting that some components of racial identity are adoptable, and these flat 'trans-racialism is impossible' statements are a poor account of the subject.

I would say your objection is strong, but not a deal-breaker.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Adding the same prefix doesn't make the new words' meaning the same. The name of a land mass is not physical characteristics is not a societies culture is not race.

Transgender has no hyphen, Mr Homo-sexual. You want to vote, then use your own experiences as as example like the rest of us. Because I just know your ass is gonna fuck up my experience and I've had quite enough of being an 'example' for people who've no idea what the fuck I'm saying.

No need to be rude.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

As I said initially in post #6, I'm not defending Dolezal, and am not speaking about her specific case.

If you read my posts, you'll see I'm suggesting that some components of racial identity are adoptable, and these flat 'trans-racialism is impossible' statements are a poor account of the subject.

I would say your objection is strong, but not a deal-breaker.

You can adopt aspects of a culture. It does not make you black or white or Asian.
You can identify with and relate to African-American culture. It does not make you African-American.

Transgender individuals feel trapped in the wrong body. There are biological, neurological and psychological studies to support this.

You can't be born into the wrong race. I'm not aware of any black brain or biological patterns that are somehow found in some white individuals that cause them to feel like a black person in a white body.

 

[G-Lexington]

It's strange to see how many people say that this is an 'interesting topic' or 'worth exploring'. I'm wondering if they'd think it were an interesting topic worth exploring if she were a black woman insisting she were white.

Lex