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Boeing 737 Max 8 Not Safe ...

That article was excellent. It lays bare the problem that the media has played in fanning the flames of public hysteria about the 737 Max 8.

Our airlines are safer flying than they have ever been in the history of commercial aviation. America in particular sees heavy flight volume because of the geographic expanse of this continent and the population totaling over 350 million. There is also the lack of any adequate rail or canal system, or even interstate buses for alternative modes.

The reason why air travel is currently so safe is the work, year after year, crash after crash, analysis after analysis by the FAA, aircraft manufacturers, and untold hours of design and safety engineers.

The grounding of entire fleets has been done previously at the conclusion of a specific defect identified and implicated in a systemic failure. Things like stress and metal fatigue caused planes to break up mid-air. The fleet was grounded once the cause was understood. A cargo door design was correctly identified as the cause of a fatal in-flight blow-out and decompression. The fleet was grounded to correct the cargo door latching systems.

What one of the pilots writing in to The Atlantic wisely noted, is that now we have a kangaroo court of public opinion, fanned by all the sincere, pained-expression news anchors, who have decided that cherry-picking factoids pre-supposed to be the definitive critical evidence, is the only way to understand two crashes. And that is a very relevant point: this is a data set of TWO points, not a trend, not a data set of the many 737 Max 8 flights that have occurred.

Although the pilots have no love for Boeing's failure to adequately train all certified pilots (via the airlines) down to the weakest pilot in the system, the same pilots are well aware of the rigorous analysis that leads to assignment of cause and the grounding of a fleet.

What has just happened with the 737 Max 8 is the equal of a kid announcing he will hold his breath until you do things his way. It's foolish. It's illogical. It's theatrical. And it's going to end in embarrassment.

The article ended with the rebuke of the news media for creating the situation. No, they didn't crash any planes, but they did characterize the crashes irresponsibly with little more than internet gossip. The concluding paragraph of the second pilot letter in The Atlantic article:

737 pilot/ FAA investigator said:
I’ll add that while this has been going on, we also have an open investigation into the Atlas 767 crash at Houston. [This was a cargo flight crash, near Houston, last month that killed the three crew members aboard. But it was in a type of plane, a Boeing 767, also used by airlines.]

In that case, we know that some manner of elevator deflection led to a pitch down to 49˚. There are plenty of 767’s still flying passengers, so this, too, is a very critical investigation. Yet, as far as I can tell, the NY Times has not run a single story on this that has not been authored by either Reuters or the AP. [JF note: The Washington Post has also mainly run AP coverage; the Wall Street Journal has had some stories by its own staff.] This is incredibly disturbing, as it strongly suggests a primary interest in body count and sensationalism, as opposed to genuine public interest.

The red font is my emphasis. The role of news telling has always been, and continues to be, tantalization. The CBS video I posted MUST use the phrase "deadly" in its description, to ensure no one thought a commercial airliner just ditched with no fatalities. What utter crap.

It's all well and good to sneer at the president's ongoing simpleton comments, but the vast majority of the listening, viewing, and reading public has just as weak a grasp of how failure investigations work in the flight industry.
 
^^Well said.

I still remember all the hoopla over the US Airways (I think it was) that Captain Sullenberger put down in the Hudson way back in 2009. Media kept calling that a "crash", which it wasn't. It was a successful water landing with all 155 souls onboard being rescued ..|
 
Pilots did not know what to do in this situation is not acceptable:

The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scrambled through a handbook to understand why the jet was lurching downwards in the final minutes before it hit the water killing all 189 people on board, three people with knowledge of the cockpit voice recorder contents told Reuters.
 
I had to laugh at the spoken words on television that people no longer think Boeing is safe. They've had the most incredible safety record for decades. Their planes are among the safest in the industry worldwide.

The rollout of the 737 Max 8 was flawed, but people are idiots if they think the rest of the Boeing aircraft are unsafe. Boeing should take the knock for this MCAS problem and the design that required it, but they should also get credit where credit is due, and it's pretty shiny across a range of models that are the workhorses of the commercial fleets.
 
I cannot find Boeing 737 Max thread ...

sounds like Boeing is 110% at fault.
If no one is going to jail for this, what will ???


 
Re: I cannot find Boeing 737 Max thread ...

Fortunately, journalists are not judges, only opinionists.

No one has any doubt that Boeing is at fault. They make the plane, so they are responsible for its design, manufacture, procurement, and adequate guidance for training and operation.

The question is what exactly was the issue, what is the effective and necessary correction, and when can it be effected.

The plane is a good one, and this issue was a black eye, but it hardly means Boeing is going the way of the Edsel.

Also, claiming Boeing is only at fault ignores the facts that the failures didn't occur across the fleet, but only in two locations, so there is certainly some suggestion that training of pilots, an airline shared responsibility with Boeing, is partially to blame.

It's not like Boeing will try to walk away from the damages and settlements. This isn't Union Carbide. Their interest will be to remediate, and then follow through to restore confidence, and to restart the deliveries of the planes.

The company has not been a bad actor in the industry. Their products have been reliable and safe and preferred. This miss has been the exception. Deaths are a given in the industry, but far less than auto manufacturers cause.

This isn't the Salem Witch Trials. It's the FAA and the leading airplane manufacturer in the industry. They are fixing it right.
 
Re: I cannot find Boeing 737 Max thread ...

Fortunately, journalists are not judges, only opinionists.

No one has any doubt that Boeing is at fault. They make the plane, so they are responsible for its design, manufacture, procurement, and adequate guidance for training and operation.

The question is what exactly was the issue, what is the effective and necessary correction, and when can it be effected.

The plane is a good one, and this issue was a black eye, but it hardly means Boeing is going the way of the Edsel.

Also, claiming Boeing is only at fault ignores the facts that the failures didn't occur across the fleet, but only in two locations, so there is certainly some suggestion that training of pilots, an airline shared responsibility with Boeing, is partially to blame.

It's not like Boeing will try to walk away from the damages and settlements. This isn't Union Carbide. Their interest will be to remediate, and then follow through to restore confidence, and to restart the deliveries of the planes.

The company has not been a bad actor in the industry. Their products have been reliable and safe and preferred. This miss has been the exception. Deaths are a given in the industry, but far less than auto manufacturers cause.

This isn't the Salem Witch Trials. It's the FAA and the leading airplane manufacturer in the industry. They are fixing it right.

Your claim is not correct.
The news i watched said differently ...
 
The quality management system failed because Boeing management was not committed to quality. Boeing execs are lazy, don't add any value, and loot the company for personal gain. Boeing is not its current leadership. $20 billion in stock buybacks instead of product development.
 
Simply put, airlines have, for a very long time, been paying off damages and lawsuits as a result of crashes because it's often cheaper than fixing the problem.
 
In reality, the last decade, a period in which more people have flown than ever before, has seen fewer crashes than ever before.
 
Your claim is not correct.
The news i watched said differently ...

By all means, you stick with those journalists. They are not likely to lead you wrong by seizing upon some sensationalist angle that panders to fearmongering. They pretty much live and breathe to promote truth. We literally ran out of capes at the shop after they bought all of them.

In reality, the last decade, a period in which more people have flown than ever before, has seen fewer crashes than ever before.

It sounds like you need to spend some quality time with Telly and the news. ;)
 
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