Bradley Manning [merged]

[Lostlover]

I usually dont favor the death penalty, only in extreme circumstances. But I'd love to see Bradley Manning with a noose around his neck for treason. Assange and this no lip bastard annoy the hell out of me.

Leaking the documents serves no one's interest.

Senator Lieberman should be tried for treason too for claiming the war in Iraq is for Israel's security. Kind of weird when he called for the death penalty for treason.

 

[medic1]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

From what i haveread i believe this is the guy who leaked sesitive information
regarding the USA.
Coming from a eruopean country the United Kingdom removed the death penalty from the statute books in 1965 since that time there have been numerous public
pardons because later evidence has show that an innoccent person has been sent to the gallows.
Only last night i was watching a documentary about the number of people executed in the state of Texas alone.
Have to admit when they then said how many people were on death row awaiting the needle i was shocked. I do not believe in the death penalty. Though at the end of the day i dont live in the states and i have read poll after poll supporting the death penalty there.
I personaly know that i could not vote for murder by the state am sure that i will get the usual you dont even live here replies ,i am sorry but 2 wrongs dont make a right.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

No. He should receive jail time.

 

[Sk8ter_Boy]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Nah life in a federal prison without the possibility of parole plz

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I believe that Manning thought he was doing a good thing. The intent here was not malicious - he was not trying to do something to hurt his country. He did not do it for money or personal gain.

Let''s not forget that this leak may be a result in part of the military's DADT policy (Manning is gay, and he could not seek counseling for problems he was having without revealing to the counselor his sexuality).

To the extent that we continue to elect officials who insist on guiding us into the twelfth century, we will continue to suffer the consequences of our national stupidity - and our inability to address the problems of the twenty-first century.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I believe that the United States Armed Forces owes Bradley Manning its gratitude for daring to expose the many weaknesses in the American military's communications systems.

I also expect the British Government to ensure that Gary McKinnon is never extradicted to the United States as a result of his genius in exposing the many shortcomings in the United States Department of Defence computer systems.

Both gentlemen should be rewarded with a large bonus in excess of dollars 250,000, and offered a consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to further improve the security of the United States Government's computer networks.

Just imagine if China, Russia, Iran or an Al Qaeda terrorist group were to infiltrate American military communications with the ease demonstrated by Manning and McKinnon.

Bravo! Mr. Manning, and Mr. McKinnon.

 

[MystikWizard]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I think the Death Penalty is too harsh at this point. This latest batch seemed like mostly ... not all ... but mostly petty gossip about certain dignitaries in other countries.

Where as this may certainly put a strain on relationships with some countries, it does serve a purpose in exposing corruption. Although I obviously wouldn't want to be Assange at this point.

Speaking of which, I do not believe the charges of molestation and rape on his part. I think that is an obvious smear campaign against him on the part of either the US Government, or the Swedes and simply promoted by our Government. These charges were conveniently made immediately after the previous batch of releases and now suddenly are back in the spotlight again after the latest batch.

 

[jackoroe]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

How about having a trial first? Then if he's found guilty of treason, death by firing squad?

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

How about having a trial first? Then if he's found guilty of treason, death by firing squad?

I believe that the United States top brass should be court martialled for failing to provide fool proof security for America's military communications networks.

We can thank Bradley Manning, and Gary McKinnon for their undoubted service to the pursuit of liberty, and justice by their exposure of the incompetence of those in authority, who failed miserably to protect the United States military communications systems from potential hacking by America's enemies.

I do not support the death penalty for those generals convicted for their treasonous failure to uphold the fundamentals of military preparedness.

I would rather that the guilty parties should learn from the error of their ways, by inviting Messrs McKinnon, and Manning to teach them a few lessons on how best to secure the communications systems of the United States, from hacking by enemies intent on subverting American foreign policy.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

McKinnon has Asperger's. He should be shown some leniency. The two esponiages, though, are completely different since Manning has no known history of mental health problems (except narcissism). And yes, we'd all be depressed locked up in jail. His closest friends are saying he's suicidal in military jail.

I'm curious to see if he'd be smiling with a rope around his bake.

I believe that the United States Armed Forces owes Bradley Manning its gratitude for daring to expose the many weaknesses in the American military's communications systems.

I also expect the British Government to ensure that Gary McKinnon is never extradicted to the United States as a result of his genius in exposing the many shortcomings in the United States Department of Defence computer systems.

Both gentlemen should be rewarded with a large bonus in excess of dollars 250,000, and offered a consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to further improve the security of the United States Government's computer networks.

Just imagine if China, Russia, Iran or an Al Qaeda terrorist group were to infiltrate American military communications with the ease demonstrated by Manning and McKinnon.

Bravo! Mr. Manning, and Mr. McKinnon.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

How about having a trial first? Then if he's found guilty of treason, death by firing squad?

A trial goes without saying...

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

McKinnon has Asperger's. He should be shown some leniency. The two esponiages, though, are completely different since Manning has no known history of mental health problems (except narcissism). And yes, we'd all be depressed locked up in jail. His closest friends are saying he's suicidal in military jail.

I'm curious to see if he'd be smiling with a rope around his bake.

Both McKinnon, and Manning should be rewarded by the United States Government for exposing potentially damaging security issues, by ensuring that their generous services ensure that loop holes in the communications systems of the United States military are plugged.

Better that The Pentagon's top brass swallow a bitter pill, and acknowledge that two young people have been able to embarrass the United States military machine.

What America needs is not judgement, and condemnation of McKinnon, and Manning but an authentic affirmation, that these two fine gentlemen have served the strategic interests of the United States, by offering both of them consultancy roles to improve the security of the United States Government's communications' systems.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

there are proper channels through which Manning could have alerted his superiors to security concerns. and if he had moral objections to Don't Ask/Don't Tell, he should have resigned/quit in protest.

I agree to the point that things like secret prisons, civilian death cover-ups, and real casualty count numbers are things that citizens have a right to know... the latest release of confidential diplomatic communications goes beyond the pale, however, and as far as I can tell, serves absolutely no purpose but to damage global security and diplomatic ties.

I am presuming that you have served in the United States military, and would therefore easily appreciate that the chain of command does not readily invite improvements from private soldiers. Change in the military system is designed to operate from the top, down. This is also the reality in the armed forces of most, if not all countries.

The current gradually timed release of tittle, tattle by the media has done no more than tell us what we already know. No surprises. No earth shattering revelations. Just imagine, Russia rewards its Mafia criminals for services to the state. What else is new?

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

You know it's something when a Canadian is calling for Assange to be hunted down and killed.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/12/03/16415546.html

 

[Ninja108]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Sorry, there have been other spies who's leaks have resulted in much worse results than these have. If they didn't get the DP, there is no reason he should.

 

[Stardreamer]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I believe that Manning thought he was doing a good thing. The intent here was not malicious - he was not trying to do something to hurt his country. He did not do it for money or personal gain.

I might have been sympathetic to this line of reasoning if he had stopped with the video or a few other select items that highlighted abuses that needed to be addressed. But this downloading in bulk of materials from the secure nets is just plain dangerous. It can, will and probably already has done damage to the US military and diplomatic corps that will get people killed. Damage the public will (HOPEFULLY) never know about but will happen none the less.

What one person calls 'gossip' on this thread is one example, by violating the trust of the diplomatic back channels, untold harm has been done. Wars have been averted through that means of honest open discussion between nations and now it will take years to rebuild the level of trust many foreign leaders assumed they had when talking with the US.

No this boy deserves anything he gets, he swore an oath of honor to protect that information when he was given access to it. Violating that oath in a specific case of criminal violation of the trust of the American people like the video was one thing but giving out the information wholesale regardless of how 'good' he thought his intentions is nothing but a betrayal of the trust he was given by the American people. Even releasing the video was a betrayal of his honor since there were other means to protest and inform of that injustice without releasing it.

And perhaps in that is the one thing where the damage done by DADT comes into play. The stigma and pressure placed upon him by the prejudices institutionalized by DADT would be used to undermine and discredit his character in any evidence he submitted through the IG, legal or congressional channels.

 

[Stardreamer]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

Sorry, there have been other spies who's leaks have resulted in much worse results than these have. If they didn't get the DP, there is no reason he should.

Due to the shear volume of information released, we have no idea (and probably never will) how much damage has been done by these releases. Other spies may have done more specific damage but very few have done such broad sweeping releases and in most cases the information they obtained was not shared with the world at large. People will die from this have no doubt, either directly from the information released or from the side effects the release will have on other actions.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.

 

[Lostlover]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.

So, what are we going to do now that we know Karzai isn't an effective leader? Run from Afghanistan and leave a weak government there? We can't. We have to leave Afghanistan in a position where it can uphold law and order. Right now it can't.

And I've been reading newspapers that have posted about Karzai's erratic behavior the last two years. Don't be surprised if it comes out that he's a heroin addict.

His shortcomings are well known. So are his pardons of warlords. He claims he had to do it to survive. I'm not sure but I also am not aware of Afghan cultural habits.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

So, what are we going to do now that we know Karzai isn't an effective leader? Run from Afghanistan and leave a weak government there? We can't. We have to leave Afghanistan in a position where it can uphold law and order. Right now it can't.

No. We need to deal with it from the reality of the west not propping up another puppet regime because it is afraid of the what ifs.

If Karzai is finally not able to function under the pretense of legitimacy, then time to see what goes into his place.

The Taliban again? Which nations except Pakistan would tolerate that? Not even Iran at this point.

A soviet style puppet regime? Would that be worse than what is there now? A tribal warlord who would wage civil war? Would that be worse than now?

The fact is, Afghanistan is a failed state and has been a failed state before the Durand Line or the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It can never be anything but a failed state.

And no amount of pretending or delaying the inevitable when the Afghani's turn full bore against their occupiers again is going to change this.

Karzai had the greatest opportunity to create a modern state ever handed to a politician. That he chose to squander it and play the west for fools does not mean he should be supported in this game.

The best outcome at this point for the West is that the tribes in Afghanistan go to war among themselves.