Brick Walls

[NickCole]

Something else about walls ...

It's smart to be protected from some things. For instance if you have a dream, a passion to do something and there are people trying to talk you out of it. Absorbing that negative message is just self-defeating so it's good to have walls up so those messages get deflected away.

But walls are always deflectors, so putting them up between you and people who want to love you ... well it's not hard to see what happens.

 

[JayHew]

There is a lot to what ding says concerning bringing down walls with some and keeping some in place with others. The whole is not an action potential, an all or nothing proposition. Because of what has happened to you and some of the means of construction of those walls, it follows closely what happens with PTSD, post tramatic stress disorder. It doesn't have to be horrendous life threatening things that happen to us to get there, it can be any siginificantly threatening event. There is a lot of info out now on PTSD and means of dealing with it. NickCole has given you great information but also great encouragement and has shown his heroic effort (and yes it is heroic) to improve what he has.

We all have walls, Chirs, even when there has never been a life altering event in our lives. They exist at different levels with different people. But with traumatic events and the idea of loss, abandonment and trust those walls get built higher and thicker to preserve ourselves, with us not realizing it blunts a necessary part of ourselves for growth,.... keeping love at a distance because to love is to risk.

When in Viet Nam as a combat corpsman, I was dedicated to doing whatever I could for those in my unit. Was a bit of everything to everyone and I was taken by how open most were. It amazed me then when our unit was taken out of combat action (pull out of the Marines) and it set in that we wouldn't be seeing combat anymore, I watched as walls between us built up. So they exist but depends on levels.

From what you say you have much of the PTSD and all I can say is to try to deal with it as NickCole suggests or seek counciling for it. I had it myself and dealt with it for 30 years before I finally worked the details. Glad I did and life has been much better. Aside from it all, a friend did put it in a nutshell. It is better to love and experience some hurts, risks and pain, then to suffer the pain of loneliness, distance and non-loving, what is gained far outstrips what we fear.

As for how to do it, take the Nike commercial motto and "Just do it". We're pulling for you.

 

[Christopher123]

You guys.... thank you. I've read all of the recent posts and forgive me if I don't address them individually, but I've read them all and have absorbed what you've said and it makes sooooooooo much freakin sense you have no idea.

I'm going to ponder all of this for a while. And I'll probably read back over the posts again tomorrow. In fact I know I will.

Yes, I'm happy with the way things are in my friendships. But by my friends saying they wish they could get through to me, apparently THEY are not happy. I can't count how many times I've heard the line, "Chris, I'm sorry, but there's just no getting through to you."

(pardon the redundancy)

Sadly, I have no f'ing idea what they mean. That's the problem. They see it. I don't.

So I'm going to have to think about this for a bit.

Again, thank you all for your responses. You took the time to pour your feelings out to me and I appreciate it very much.



Chris

 

[Riverrick]

Chris, I hate that there has been so much sadness in your life because I really like you. You are a very bright light around here.

I think that the reason it is so hard to break down the walls is because they hold in so much pain, hurt, and anger (rage) that it is kind of terrifying to take a chance on letting it all out. What your friends are asking you to do is to open up about your feelings. But since they are all connected, it can be difficult to do without the more explosive stuff coming out. So we have to batten down the hatches and be cautious, unconsciously guarding and withdrawing.

And since the wall knows no distinction between good or bad, sometimes even our good or joyful feelings get numbed up and muted this wall.

It takes a lot of trust to let down these guards of ours. In my experience, without that trust it just ain't gonna happen.

The two avenues that I use to deal with this is to either work with the deep feelings in therapy or work on trust with my friends. I have major trust issues so both are difficult for me. Good luck!

 

[JackFTwist]

I agree. But I honestly don't know that I feel like sitting there telling a perfect stranger all of my problems.

Thing is I don't really HAVE that many problems right now. Yes, I know, we're talking about things that have happened in my past, but oddly enough I'm the happiest now that I've ever been. If that doesn't sound too unrealistic.

<clip>

One minute I love life; the next minute I'm wondering what the point is.

<clip>

I'd just like to stop doing this. Shutting myself off, I mean. I want to let the people who are close to me into my life/head/mind/thoughts/whatever because I fear, as I've done in the past, I'm shoving them away, one by one. My friend is right - if I keep this up, I WILL be alone the rest of my life.

Friend,

I do not buy for one moment that you are remotely happy right now.

Counseling is something we all need now and again. I've been, and it has gotten me through some very difficult passages and times in my life.

A skilled professional, someone neutral yet on your side, who can assist in helping you sort things out - now what is wrong with that?

It has gotten me through tough times. It is the greatest gift any of us can offer, the suggestion, strong suggestion, that you engage is some counseling. You are riding an incredible roller coaster with a lot of pain and the best anyone here can do - which is a lot - is to offer friendship and support, but to actually make things better in your life - that is what a skilled professional is for when you need it.

You have a broken leg, you aren't going to set it by yourself and blow off seeing a trained professional - if for your leg, how much more for your life?

 

[Christopher123]

Yes, I'm afraid of opening myself up. But what's hardest to explain about this is I'm not even aware I'm being this way until my friends bring it to my attention. And when they say these things I'm like, "What? What are you talking about? What do you mean I don't open myself up? What do you mean you can't get through to me? You're talking to me now, aren't you?" <--- my usual defensiveness.

I wouldn't even be addressing this had it not been for them saying something to me about it. And dammit, off and on all of my life, I've heard this crap. Not just from my friends now, but from family and friends in the past. Even my sister is always getting on me about how defensive I am and how "protective" I am of myself. Well so what? So I'm protective. What do you want from me, my blood?

My brother's the only one that would sit with me and say, "Chris, just be you. And if people don't feel it's good enough, that's tough shit."

Was he helping me by saying that? Or just making the situation worse? I don't know.

As for whether or not I'm happy - no, I'm not happy to where I'm bouncing off walls and smiling all the time (that's another thing I've heard all my life - "Smile! You need to smile more!") and singing The Hills Are Alive on a sunny day... but I'm happier now that I used to be. I was a miserable little bastard for many years, you have no idea. How anyone could even stand to be in my presence was beyond me. But now I'm much more pleasant and in good moods for the most part and I love people and I love life (okay, to an extent - I don't think life is freakin fantastic, but I have no desire to go off myself, either) and I WANT to be happy. I LIKE being happy.

I think my most miserable time was, of course, like many of you, before I came out. Half the time I didn't know whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt (great quote from Steel Magnolias, lol) because I was so damned confused about myself. I'd sit around thinking my gawd, what the hell's wrong with me? Why am I like this? Why aren't I normal? Why can't I be like everyone else? And how the hell do I handle it? Where do I go from here? What do I do now? Who the hell do I talk to? Who will understand?

As I'm sure you can all identify very well with those feelings.

So what I mean is, especially now that everyone knows I'm gay and knows about the kind of life I need and yada yada yada, it's time now to start coming out of my shell a little bit. But honestly? I'm not sure I want to do that completely. I mean, doesn't everyone need a little bit of protection?

I love you guys, I really do. You've all been so understanding and I appreciate you listening to me and letting me dump on ya. And all of you have made wonderful points.

Thank you so much.



P.S. to Jack - Go Blue!

 

[JackFTwist]

But what's hardest to explain about this is I'm not even aware I'm being this way until my friends bring it to my attention. And when they say these things I'm like, "What? What are you talking about? What do you mean I don't open myself up? What do you mean you can't get through to me? You're talking to me now, aren't you?" <--- my usual defensiveness.<clip>t's time now to start coming out of my shell a little bit. But honestly? I'm not sure I want to do that completely. I mean, doesn't everyone need a little bit of protection?

and a good counselor or therapist will be able to deal with that in a very helpful way - the good ones that I have had, have done so - a not so good therapist I had figurd out in thre sessions and never saw her again. A counselor will be on your side and be there for you and provide you a safe place to practice, a safe environment to explore how to do the things you wonder how to do, or how much to do. And that is their training - to help you find the answers within, and that is a marvelous thing. It has gotten me through tough times and transitions in my life, and was something that I looked forward to. I only share this with you because it was so good for me and set the stage for later good things, and all I want is good for you.

Everyone here is right back at ya with the love.

Chris: a big M Go Blue to you too!

 

[backpacker]

But honestly? I'm not sure I want to do that completely. I mean, doesn't everyone need a little bit of protection?

Yes, I think everyone needs a little bit of protection. The challenge is determining what level of protection is right, which varies by individual. Yours seems a little too high right now, which is only natural based on the heartache you have had to endure. Now that you are aware of it, you need to make an effort to recognize when you are doing it and force yourself to push past the barrier. Slowly over time your comfort level will change. The fact that your are able to open up so much on the forum shows that you are headed in the right direction. Some counseling may help you get there sooner, but I don't know if it is necessary. You are in the best position to make that determination. For me, my level changed dramatically when a fell in love for the first time. The warning is that I don't know that I handled the peaks and valleys of emotions that well at the time. Counseling probably would have helped me.

 

[Christopher123]

Thanks, guys. I'm still considering the therapist thing. I don't know yet. I'm very stubborn and pigheaded when it comes to that sort of thing

 

[NickCole]

Chris --

Are you open with any of your friends, in person, the way you've been open at JUB and especially in this thread?

 

[Christopher123]

Chris --

Are you open with any of your friends, in person, the way you've been open at JUB and especially in this thread?

Sometimes I am, yes. But only to a point. Except for my brother, rarely do I sit down and pour my heart out to anyone. I'm not an open book, I'm afraid. I mean, I TALK to my friends, sure. But sit down and tell them everything? No. Because I always assume they're not interested.

I mean, seriously, are people REALLY interested in everybody's problems?

I keep to myself most of the time. My friends know what I'm about and what I like and what I don't like and that kind of thing. And yeah, a couple of them know way more about me than the others do. But I guess, according to a few of them, I'm a bit of a mystery and they just can't get close to me. I can't count how many times I've heard, "What the hell is going on inside that head of yours?"

 

[NickCole]

You assume your friends aren't interested, you wonder if people are really interested in your problems and then you say you can't count how many times you've heard "What the hell is going on inside that head of yours?"

Um ... clearly your friends are interested.

Of course we should be selective about our friendships and which friends we tell what to -- that's the reason we become closer to some than others. And using our friends as recepticals for vomiting out our problems all the time is no good. But sharing your feelings, your concerns, your questions, your unguarded genuine self with friends who've earned your trust who also open up to you will bring you closer, and also helps bring clarity to your own thoughts.

You don't have to risk everything by unloading all your private stuff at once. If you have a friend you trust who's interested in knowing you better, knowing what's in your head, when a time is right, let out a little bit of yourself. See how it's received and see if you like how it feels.

 

[therealm1]

Christopher123, I thank you for starting this thread. This is actually an issue I've been dealing with as well. I've heard it from some friends of mine for a long time, and part of me always tells them, "It's not my place to dump my problems on you" even though I don't mind them doing the opposite for me. I'm still torn over whether letting my friends in my head is cool or whether I'm still fine handling my issues on my own. I can still remember my worst experience opening up and how I felt like my problems were totally ignored and how foolish I felt after putting all of that trust out there.

I have at least recognized that being so guarded may be a problem. My friends are more open to "sharing" and while I'm commonly referred to as having no soul and have no emotions, I see what they are wanting from my friendship with them. I've told them that stating my problem is the first step in opening up to them; yet they know that this will be a SLOW process.

 

[Christopher123]

You assume your friends aren't interested, you wonder if people are really interested in your problems and then you say you can't count how many times you've heard "What the hell is going on inside that head of yours?"

Um ... clearly your friends are interested.

But I can't understand WHY. That's my whole problem.

I guess "why" doesn't really matter, does it?

I've just never understood how anyone could be interested in me, that's all. Yes, I know that's something I have to work on.

Of course we should be selective about our friendships and which friends we tell what to -- that's the reason we become closer to some than others. And using our friends as recepticals for vomiting out our problems all the time is no good. But sharing your feelings, your concerns, your questions, your unguarded genuine self with friends who've earned your trust who also open up to you will bring you closer, and also helps bring clarity to your own thoughts.

I agree. And what I'm trying to work on as well.

Thank you

 

[Christopher123]

Christopher123, I thank you for starting this thread. This is actually an issue I've been dealing with as well. I've heard it from some friends of mine for a long time, and part of me always tells them, "It's not my place to dump my problems on you" even though I don't mind them doing the opposite for me.

Exactly!

Nail on the head.

I'm still torn over whether letting my friends in my head is cool or whether I'm still fine handling my issues on my own. I can still remember my worst experience opening up and how I felt like my problems were totally ignored and how foolish I felt after putting all of that trust out there.

Yep, me too. Especially if it comes from your own parents. If your own parents don't care, why should anyone else? If you can't trust your mother and father, who can you trust?

I have at least recognized that being so guarded may be a problem. My friends are more open to "sharing" and while I'm commonly referred to as having no soul and have no emotions, I see what they are wanting from my friendship with them. I've told them that stating my problem is the first step in opening up to them; yet they know that this will be a SLOW process.

Well here's hoping we can do something about it. Because I love my friends, I care about everyone around me. I'd do anything for the people I love, as well as anything to protect them within my power. But it's apparently not within my power to give a little more of myself.

And that's what I'm trying to correct.

 

[therealm1]

Yep, me too. Especially if it comes from your own parents. If your own parents don't care, why should anyone else? If you can't trust your mother and father, who can you trust?

I'm sure when you typed this reply, you didn't know how close to the truth you were. I've been raised by both of my parents and love them in different ways. My mom is the one I feel closest to, yet I don't spill my guts to her or tell her how things are going in my life. I've acted as the peacekeeper between her and my dad and knowing the problems my mom has, I don't need to dump anything else on her.

Anyways, back to the point I was making, I took the one opportunity to actually open up to my dad, due to an argument we were having. I made the claim that he NEVER listens to his children, and he said "Ok, tell me what you're feeling then." It was a time of high emotion and he completely blew me off and said my problems were inconsequential and not worth his time. It still hurts to this day.

Do my friends deserve to be affected by something that happened to me years ago? No. However, does my life need to be an open book for anyone to read and understand? Why can't there be this private me for only ME to understand? If what I'm doing with my life has no consequence on yours, why is it important for me to report on my every move?

Here's a situation that kills me, since this actually came up this summer...if I don't care to know if a friend is dating someone or not, why should they care if I don't choose to share who I may be dating? Does it really matter THAT much? I feel somewhat horrible for saying I don't care about something that happens in a friend's life, but I justify my reasoning by saying that a new boyfriend/girlfriend, car, etc. won't change why I am friends with the people I care about. I define others by their qualities not by their accomplishments. Hopefully the latter is a reflection of the former, but even a low-income man can have a strong work ethic and heart of gold that struggles against his socioeconomic classification.

My response strikes me as ironic now because I am sharing with you all. However, the "anonymity" of the Internet at least doesn't make me feel like I'm throwing all of me out to the wolves. I guess I'm just seeking to be understood, for someone to comprehend this small idiosyncracy that I have.

Now I have a desire to read "If" by Rudyard Kipling...

 

[Riverrick]

Therealm1, sorry to hear that your dad blew you off when you took a big risk with him. That is very damaging. I'm sure it left you feeling exposed and hurt.

I remember a similar incident when I was in high school and I had to explain to my parents why I wouldn't take a job because they were requiring me to cut my hair (think 1970). I had nice medium long hair like Chris then and it was about the only thing I had going for me. And some jerk wanted me to cut it, probably because he hated guys with long hair.

Anyhow, I ended up telling my parents the truth (that I already felt like a loser and would be devastated if I had to cut my hair). A time of high emotion for me also. And my mom just got enraged and told me that wasn't a good enough reason. My dad got mad too until I started to cry and then he backed off. I think he may have gotten the point then but I never brought it back up again to find out. Oh, and I never took that stupid job either.

 

[Christopher123]

Anyways, back to the point I was making, I took the one opportunity to actually open up to my dad, due to an argument we were having. I made the claim that he NEVER listens to his children, and he said "Ok, tell me what you're feeling then." It was a time of high emotion and he completely blew me off and said my problems were inconsequential and not worth his time. It still hurts to this day.

That's awful. And I know how much it hurts.

Here's a situation that kills me, since this actually came up this summer...if I don't care to know if a friend is dating someone or not, why should they care if I don't choose to share who I may be dating? Does it really matter THAT much?

Well, because I think friends are interested in that sort of thing. I guess. I would be. When my friends date new boyfriends/girlfriends then yes, I kind of like knowing about it, although I don't have to know what's going on in their lives unless they want to tell me. Meaning, I don't pry. If they choose to tell me, that's great. If not, that's their business. But I guess I might feel a little slighted if a really good friend would completely blow off telling me they're dating someone new.

 

[therealm1]

Well, because I think friends are interested in that sort of thing. I guess. I would be. When my friends date new boyfriends/girlfriends then yes, I kind of like knowing about it, although I don't have to know what's going on in their lives unless they want to tell me. Meaning, I don't pry. If they choose to tell me, that's great. If not, that's their business. But I guess I might feel a little slighted if a really good friend would completely blow off telling me they're dating someone new.

Sorry for being away from this thread for so long; work and a brief visit home has kept me away from this board.

The key phrase from your response was "Meaning, I don't pry." That's a big part of who I am. However, I'm learning that wanting to know more about a person, about a friend shows that you are interested in the individual. So my friends wanting to know who I'm dating only shows their interest.

The only reason why I react so strongly against people wanting to "know my business" is because I have a little sister who has wanted to be a know-it-all all her life, and my brother and I still do a hard job of getting through to my sister that "being in the know" isn't necessary all the time.

With revisiting the issue of brick walls, I'm struggling with the idea of sharing my issues with my sexuality with one of my friends. Maybe it'll be a New Years resolution of mine...

 

[Christopher123]

With revisiting the issue of brick walls, I'm struggling with the idea of sharing my issues with my sexuality with one of my friends. Maybe it'll be a New Years resolution of mine...

Well, if you do I hope it works out okay. Some people have a tough time relating these things to friends in fear of losing their friendship altogether. Then there are others who have the attitude of I'm gay and I don't care who knows it or likes it.

I suppose both 'tudes can have their pros and cons. I know a guy who has been openly gay since the dawn of time. And he tends to rag on other gays who aren't completely out yet. He seems to think that because some of them aren't out that they're 'hiding' and are ashamed of their sexuality. But it's not always that simple. I told him once, "Dude, you need to back off and let them go at their own pace. Your "I don't give a damn" attitude may be fine for you, but it's not necessarily fine for everyone else. They're scared. Do you know what fear is? Or are you just hiding your fear by not giving a shit?"

He was a little pissed off at me for that, but oh well, he'll get over it. He wants all of his "brothers" to come out and be just like him, yet he's shunning those very "brothers" by not being sensitive to their issues. So really he's just kicking himself in the ass.