Bristol Palin and fiance split

[Spensed]

To assert that Bristol and Levi "were not trotted on stage as models of GOP family values", you have to be blind to the context and many of the facts surrounding their appearance.

The context was the irony of an abstinence preaching politician finding herself with an unmarried teenage daughter and the reality that abortion might be one solution to consider for an unwanted pregnancy. The McCain and Palin campaign tried to flip the PR problem around by publicly embracing and parading both the pregnant Bristol and Levi, who never was a member of the family, as a forgiveness of transgressions and pro-life issue. Many statements and commentaries at the time picked up on those themes.

To make it sound as if Bristol and Levi simply appeared as uncontroversial minors with the Palins (like the Obama children appeared with the Obamas) completely misses the mark.

Likewise, if anyone thinks that the media is really "going after" Bristol and Levi rather than Sarah Palin.

To the extent that that is happening, Bristol herself has invited that scrutiny by her recent television interview, which turns out to be inconsistent with what his now being reported. Likewise, Levi with the odd episode of landing a competitive job he wasn't qualified for.

If the same situation had occurred in the Obama family, the screeching of the anti-Obama loons would even louder, relentless and non-constructive than it is already.

 

[opinterph]

I have removed several posts from this thread, primarily involving instances of personal insults and/or baiting.

Further expressions of that posting behavior are not desired.

 

[chatolandia]

I am sad for Bristol


and I wonder how momma Sarah is going to explain that to the people that buy Ann Coulter's book...

you know, the one that blames most of this country's problems to single mothers...

 

[Lostlover]

To assert that Bristol and Levi "were not trotted on stage as models of GOP family values", you have to be blind to the context and many of the facts surrounding their appearance.

The context was the irony of an abstinence preaching politician finding herself with an unmarried teenage daughter and the reality that abortion might be one solution to consider for an unwanted pregnancy. The McCain and Palin campaign tried to flip the PR problem around by publicly embracing and parading both the pregnant Bristol and Levi, who never was a member of the family, as a forgiveness of transgressions and pro-life issue. Many statements and commentaries at the time picked up on those themes.

To make it sound as if Bristol and Levi simply appeared as uncontroversial minors with the Palins (like the Obama children appeared with the Obamas) completely misses the mark.

Likewise, if anyone thinks that the media is really "going after" Bristol and Levi rather than Sarah Palin.

To the extent that that is happening, Bristol herself has invited that scrutiny by her recent television interview, which turns out to be inconsistent with what his now being reported. Likewise, Levi with the odd episode of landing a competitive job he wasn't qualified for.

If the same situation had occurred in the Obama family, the screeching of the anti-Obama loons would even louder, relentless and non-constructive than it is already.

Or if Obama or his two children were old enough to have kids out of wedlock, a lot of self righteous people would have seen this as the stereotypical black family.

Palin has been given a pass, no doubt, because of her race (reverse racism). The kind that likes her to begin with are torn from the same cloth as she is -- 5 or 6 kids on a meager salary living beyond their means -- aka "the average American family". My ass. I'm not average then. Neither is my family. And I'm pretty damn proud of not being average if that's average and refreshing.

Michelle Obama came to town and talked about how "they" keep moving the goal posts out of reach. Inexperienced. Junior senator. No executive experience. Muslim. Etc. And the goal posts for Palin were constantly being put within grasp.

 

[iman]

I have removed several posts from this thread, primarily involving instances of personal insults and/or baiting.

Further expressions of that posting behavior are not desired.

​

The real problem is that this thread does not belong in a political forum, it belongs in Hot Topics or someplace. There is nothing political about teenagers having sexual problems, regardless of who their parents happen to be. The posters that have grown up(?) during the conservative Republican years seem to think that all personal problems are fair political fodder.

If the same situation had occurred in the Obama family, the screeching of the anti-Obama loons would even louder, relentless and non-constructive than it is already

.


^That is always the false hypothetical that is used to justify the sleazy character attacks we see in this thread. It does not matter what the conservative reaction might have been to an Obama family problem - we should not want to imitate that reaction.




That

 

[Spensed]

The real problem is that this thread does not belong in a political forum, it belongs in Hot Topics or someplace. There is nothing political about teenagers having sexual problems, regardless of who their parents happen to be. The posters that have grown up(?) during the conservative Republican years seem to think that all personal problems are fair political fodder.

As previously pointed out, the personal problems of this particular teenage couple aren't relevant because of Bristol is Palin's daughter, but because Palin promoted herself as an abstinence and anti-abortion candidate and yet was faced with her own family situation that challenged her own position on these issues.

Plus, in an attempt to control the resulting damaging PR consequences, the McCain/Palin campaign chose to put the unfortunate couple at the very center of the media coverage, right down to having its Presidential candidate greet the clearly uncomfortable Levi off the plane.

That's why the Bristol/Levi relationship was, and remains, of political interest.

That might change if Palin indicated she had no Presidential aspirations, or now agreed with her daughter that her abstinence policies were unrealistic, and/or that teenage girls with unwanted pregancies might at least consider abortion as an option. But that isn't likely.

Plus, of course, Bristol herself has now given at least one public TV interview on these subjects attracting yet further media attention in her own right.

The analogy with the Obama girls is, of course, relevant. Not because potential inconsiderate treatment of them justifies inconsiderate treatment of Bristol/Levy, but because, in similar circumstances, media comment would be appropriate and because the comparison underlines the hypocritical nature of Obama's foes in these matters. It does seem worth commenting that, if the same situation had hit Obama and his family, the consequences would likely have been far worse for him.

 

[chance1]

^ whether it's rudy giuliani and his family or sarah palin and hers or al gore and his or barack obama and his .........

this type of shit stinks

period

but you and the loons don't see it

and never will

and the silly argument "if it was obama's kids ..........."

makes no sense

as that would wrong as well

and 2 wrongs ........

 

[Spensed]

As usual, chance1 doesn't address any of the substantive points:

- That Bristol's condition is itself a very public problem for an abstinence and anti-abortion candidate (in a way that a candidate's children just being children isn't);

- That Palin chose to bring Bristol and Levi onto the national stage for her political purposes to try to diffuse that problem. She tried to make them props for Christian forgiveness and anti-abortion choice. Their upcoming marriage was seen by many people as part of a charade to retain Palin's appeal to the religious right so, obviously, it's of public interest that there'll never be any marriage;

- That, if the analogous situation ever arose, there would be nothing wrong in media coverage of Obama's unwed daughter, but that it would, in all likelihood, be used to fan a hate-filled stereotype. That wrong doesn't make complaining about the Bristol Palin coverage right. It makes it hypocritical.

 

[jJoEd77]

Absolutely! But that's what has become a big contingent of the wing nut core. Uneducated, bigoted, white trash. They've grown up previously that dad could get a job right out of high school that would make enough money to raise 6 kids, regardless of merit or intelligence. Now that the world has changed, and you really need a 4 year university degree for said job (at a minimum) they are having to actually compete against others to get them. They see their previously entitlement of being white as ticket to happiness and success no longer mean much at all, and it makes them angry, and hence drawn to the Republican party. They don't want anyone else getting anything they aren't getting, all the while ignoring their handouts the govt gives them and instead brands that "the American way" as an excuse.

Who is "they" you keep referencing. Whites?

"...and success no longer mean much at all, and it makes them angry, and hence drawn to the Republican party."

I think that's funny considering that Republicans want tax cuts for the wealthy who have gone to school for years and years and worked their way up the ladder. If anything, they know the meaning of hard work and earning what you get, and that's why they're drawn to the Republican party, so their achievements can be recognized properly.

But of course it all depends on what you meant by "they."


Spensed, I totally agree with you. It's not even a difference between ideologies, it's just plain wrong to flaunt someone around for personal gain. And you're right, if the Obama's situation would occur, that's exactly what would happen and there's no excuse for hypocrisy.

 

[Spensed]

I think that's funny considering that Republicans want tax cuts for the wealthy who have gone to school for years and years and worked their way up the ladder. If anything, they know the meaning of hard work and earning what you get, and that's why they're drawn to the Republican party, so their achievements can be recognized properly.

That's an overly one sided view of both the wealthy and of Republicans. Maybe you're being ironic.

Many Democrats have just as good or better educational and working credentials than Republicans.

It just that Democrats tend to lack that I've-got-mine-and-fuck-you mindset.

 

[Shafted]

To assert that Bristol and Levi "were not trotted on stage as models of GOP family values", you have to be blind to the context and many of the facts surrounding their appearance.

True. I'm pretty certain the GOP made a big deal about Bristol's story being the "American story", and how brave she was to have the baby instead of aborting it.
Of course, more than one person noted that had this been Obama, instead of Palin, with a 17 year old unmarried daughter parading around on stage with baby-daddy, the Republicans would have absolutely destroyed him.
Many commented on how Republicans publicly adjusted the definition of "family values" for the sake of convenience.

 

[grantt]

To see this thread still here under "politics and current events" is bullshit. Mods, don't you think this should be moved?

 

[Spensed]

For the reasons already set out, the Briston/Palin relationship is a political and current event in the context of Palin's continued presidential ambitions and the hypocrisy of right wing "family values" candidates and the Republican party generally.

So this thread seems exactly in the right forum.

Folk, who don't like it here can always just ignore it or try addressing some of the substantive points being made.

 

[chance1]

As usual, chance1 doesn't address any of the substantive points:

- That Bristol's condition is itself a very public problem for an abstinence and anti-abortion candidate (in a way that a candidate's children just being children isn't);

- That Palin chose to bring Bristol and Levi onto the national stage for her political purposes to try to diffuse that problem. She tried to make them props for Christian forgiveness and anti-abortion choice. Their upcoming marriage was seen by many people as part of a charade to retain Palin's appeal to the religious right so, obviously, it's of public interest that there'll never be any marriage;

- That, if the analogous situation ever arose, there would be nothing wrong in media coverage of Obama's unwed daughter, but that it would, in all likelihood, be used to fan a hate-filled stereotype. That wrong doesn't make complaining about the Bristol Palin coverage right. It makes it hypocritical.

as usual .......

is always a great way to start a sentence

sure babies born out of wedlock is a public problem - yes it is - never said it wasn't

THE POINT is castigating these kids or her mom and making mean remarks about them sucks

PERIOD

thats THE POINT

and she did not make them "props" - that is ur own mean/cyncial mind at work - which puts u in the majority here in JUBland

think the worst

is spensed's motto - did i spell that right? the spensed's part that is

and your last point is laughable ........... not really

that if obama's kids had this issue .............

some might do what u say

doesn't make it right

thanks for making my point - especially with ur last thing

welcome back spensed

ur typeface was missed

 

[gewhite3]

To see this thread still here under "politics and current events" is bullshit. Mods, don't you think this should be moved?

I put it here for the exact reasons Spensed mentioned more than once already, and it's in the correct forum. Did it every occur to you that this is the reason it's still here?

 

[Kulindahr]

Countdown 'til this breakup is blamed on Obama's stimulus package in 5.....4.....3.....2.....

The need for sex education and easy access to contraception seems such an obvious no brainer.

I live where they have it -- required in high school, and some in middle school.

Kids take the course, grab the condoms... and go to barn parties, get wasted, forget they have condoms, screw in the dark when they don't even know who it is, get pregnant, have an abortion and remain emotionally scarred for life.

Your avatar is the bomb!

Absotively posilutely!

 

[Kulindahr]

That should be your siggie....

and she did not make them "props" - that is ur own mean/cyncial mind at work - which puts u in the majority here in JUBland

Of course she didn't make them a prop.

She was too busy spending tens of thousands of other people's dollars on clothes.

 

[Spensed]

as usual .......

is always a great way to start a sentence

sure babies born out of wedlock is a public problem - yes it is - never said it wasn't

THE POINT is castigating these kids or her mom and making mean remarks about them sucks

PERIOD

thats THE POINT

and she did not make them "props" - that is ur own mean/cyncial mind at work - which puts u in the majority here in JUBland

think the worst

is spensed's motto - did i spell that right? the spensed's part that is

and your last point is laughable ........... not really

that if obama's kids had this issue .............

some might do what u say

doesn't make it right

thanks for making my point - especially with ur last thing

welcome back spensed

ur typeface was missed

You don't have to cynical to see that Palin tried to turn the hapless duo into campaign props.

She didn't have to make a big show of McCain chumming up with Levi at the airport. Levi wasn't even a family member. And she didn't need to put an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy at the forefront of her acceptance event. She could just as easily not have had the limelight shine so brightly upon her family misfortune and simply expressed her love and support. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could have predicted that Bristol and Levi were just as likely not to stay together as they were to get married.

Instead, Palin tried to control the negative spin by doing what she did. The Republican talking points at the time were about Palin's Christian forgiveness (of what?), the decision to take the pregnancy to term (not Palin's to make) and the redemption of an embarrassing pregnancy by the forthcoming marriage (not as in the cards as it was presented). Lucky most voters saw through the charade.

I feel sorry for the two teenagers involved. Palin used them both.

 

[NickCole]

I live where they have it -- required in high school, and some in middle school.

Kids take the course, grab the condoms... and go to barn parties, get wasted, forget they have condoms, screw in the dark when they don't even know who it is, get pregnant, have an abortion and remain emotionally scarred for life.

No doubt that's true of some, but some others use the condoms.

There's only so much adults can do to help teenagers be safe, teaching them how to make good choices, but we have a responsibility to at least make efforts in that direction.

 

[iman]

What "substantive points"? Palin did not exploit her kids any more than any other politician. No President has exploited their kids more than JFK did, it is simply expected that the family is part of the package. I suppose that you believe that it is acceptable to beat up on Biden's 91 year old mother since she accompanied him on the campaign trail. Obama even spent considerable time talking about his dead white relatives.

Palin's public acceptance of her daughters pregnancy was an admirable act, perhaps one of the few admirable acts in Palin's career, regardless of her motives.

It is just beyond the pale to use Palin's teenage daughter's problems against the Mother because you do not like Palin's politics. The glee evidenced by some posters to the daughter's problems reminds me of the delight that rightwing christians take at any misfortune suffered by gays. Anyone that takes pleasure from others misfortune shouldn't even be part of the discourse.