Bullying within the LGBT community?

[willrod1989]

Sorry if this is long.

So yeah, as I'm sure many of you out there can relate, all through Junior High and through my first half of High School (until I switched school districts my junior year), I've had to endure constant bullying and taunting because the other students (correctly) assumed that I was gay. I was constantly called "fag" everywhere I went, and I was once beaten up in the locker room because I was unfortunate to be one of the last ones out. I, the victim, was punished along with the 3 guys who jumped me simply because I tried to defend myself. And the other 3 didn't get hardly any punishment at all. That incident especially nearly caused me to want to end my life, and I had been contemplating it a lot. Anyway, I survived after switching school districts, but the damage was done- it made me feel worthless and I tried hard to quit being gay- I hated it so much. Finally, after graduating high school, and before college, I accepted who I was. I expected college to be a wonderful place where I could meet other guys who were the same as I was- where I could be free from bullying- how wrong I was.

Anyway, here's where the irony strikes. For the most part, I haven't had any trouble from the straight students- then again, I commute to school rather than living on campus. I couldn't even imagine the horrors of having a roommate who was homophobic or whatever. But ok, straight people, not an issue, thus far. The issue I *have* had, strangely enough, is with the other gay guys I've met. Issues ranging from being called fat, ugly, too hairy, weird, that I have a "feminine-sounding voice", etc. I've connected with local guys online several times, and met up with them and immediately had them tell me to fuck off. Just today, I was supposed to meet up with a guy, chat, walk around in the park, etc. Well, I get to the park, wait there for an hour past when he said he was going to show up- and, guess what? He made me go all the way there just for a prank!!

This kind of stuff I would expect from straight guys- but I mean, come on, I'm sure the guys that are pulling that shit on me went through similar shit themselves! I really haven't met someone nice at all in this area, much less where I go to school. It sucks being alone and made fun of at a time in your life when you're supposed to be meeting people, and falling in love. That's really why the story of poor Tyler Clementi has stuck with me so much- I mean, it's not to the same extent for god's sake, but shit, I know full well what it's like to be tormented somewhere where you think you'd be safe. And with the media focusing so much on homophobia in schools from straights directed towards gays, I ask for your input.

Have any of you noticed any overt bullying coming from within the LGBT community itself? Or like any self-inflicted stereotypes or discrimination? Any advice on how I should deal with all of this?

 

[andy12]

The issue I *have* had, strangely enough, is with the other gay guys I've met. Issues ranging from being called fat, ugly, too hairy, weird, that I have a "feminine-sounding voice", etc.

Are you meeting these people for a date? For friends? Is it through online sites?

 

[willrod1989]

I've met some on online sites, mostly just to hang out and see where stuff goes from there. I've met some on campus- they're usually the ones that say shit to me immediately. Went on a couple dates before- yeah, that went over real well- only wanted to have sex with me and then tell me to fuck off. Plus idk where else to meet nice people- the campus gay-straight alliance is filled with all these pretentious pricks, it seems. It's like they have their own little clique going on- been to a couple meetings, and was sorta glared at the whole time. Weirdly enough, hardly any girls showed up to these meetings either, or if they did, they were treated like shit too. I've made a couple friends who are lesbians, and the strange thing is, they're a lot nicer than the guys seem to be. Though I do want guy friends too, you know?

 

[bankside]

Yeah, a bit of advice - when I was in Junior High, I went through a brief realization that I might be gay. But as I had been taught by my family that gays were detestable, I concluded that I must have been mistaken. There was "obviously" an explanation. So I just sort of clammed up, and didn't think about it for a few years, and waited for my "normal" heterosexual urges to develop.

In all that time, I did have a good chance to observe the way the straight kids treated each other - young men and women who were free of any pressure due to their sexuality - young men and women who were free to be themselves, ask each other out to school dances, work up the courage to go on a date, all of that growing up and socializing that I kept at a distance so I didn't have to think about it.

And you know what I learned in that time, from watching them in all their freedom? A lot of them were absolute assholes!

Yup. A lot of people are just assholes. Maybe not forever. Maybe one day they'll learn something about life. But when you or I come across them, they're definitely nothing more than certifiable holes centred right in the middle of nasty ass.

And when I came out, it wasn't long before I realized this principle could be applied to gay people too. Actually it wasn't overnight either. I kind of banged my head against that wall for a while until I learned the lesson.

The first thing to know is that not everyone is decent. The next thing to know is that some people actually are. After that, remember that you can't act shitty to the decent people just because of the run-ins you have with the assholes. And last but not least, when you find the good ones, cherish them, take care of them, always return their calls, and honour their character by returning it in kind.

 

[fetaby]

the campus gay-straight alliance is filled with all these pretentious pricks, it seems. It's like they have their own little clique going on- been to a couple meetings, and was sorta glared at the whole time. Weirdly enough, hardly any girls showed up to these meetings either, or if they did, they were treated like shit too.

Oh noes! Don't let those fools ruin your time. If they want to give you the stink eye, call them out on it right then and there. Those meetings are to foster these young people who have just gone through the hells you went through in high school. Not for a clique to show their ass every week.

Anyway, you can't make someone like you. For whatever reason they say they don't, let them just go on their way. You're better off knowing what kind of people they are from the beginning.

But there are going to be people who do like you. You just have to find them. Be visible, be approachable. Those girls that were given the shitty treatment at the GSA meeting, you've already got something in common with them.

I wouldn't worry about if my friends were gay men or lesbians. A friend's a friend.

 

[KaraBulut]

...And you know what I learned in that time, from watching them in all their freedom? A lot of them were absolute assholes!

...And when I came out, it wasn't long before I realized this principle could be applied to gay people too. Actually it wasn't overnight either. I kind of banged my head against that wall for a while until I learned the lesson...

...the campus gay-straight alliance is filled with all these pretentious pricks, it seems. It's like they have their own little clique going on- been to a couple meetings, and was sorta glared at the whole time.

The topic of bullying has been in the news lately and a lot of what is being called "bullying" is clearly cases where a gay person was being bullied by one or more people for being gay. But some of the cases are not as much about the gay person being bullied as it is about a very sensitive person who is very negatively affected by things that are said about gay people- whether it be the derogatory street bully or the minister in the pulpit or the parents who unknowingly make comments about gay people.

It is a sad fact that there are unhappy, nasty and miserable people out there who- instead of dealing with their own unhappiness- choose to take their misery out on other people. In short, they're assholes and they see no issue with being an asshole.

And because there are asshole out there, you are going to meet some people who are assholes. They may judge you without getting to know you. They may reject you for how you look, how you act or how you talk. Fuck 'em. Don't waste time and energy on these people. These aren't people that you want to be around anyway. Who would knowingly chose to have friends who treat people so shabbily?

The only way to stop all these behaviors is to call people out on it. That doesn't mean to that the solution is to label them as "pretentious pricks", though. At some point, someone has to break the cycle. Someone has to be the person that makes the change.

You can only be responsible for your own behavior. And always be sure to ask yourself whether you are prejudging people based upon your past problems. Don't let your past make you defensive and quick to judge other people.

While you may not be able to change the behavior of others on the short term, you can accomplish a lot by being friendly, accepting and non-judgmental. Most people, in spite of appearances, are unsure of themselves. If you see someone in a situation like an LGBT student meeting who is not being welcomed and is feeling excluded from the group, instead of focusing on the people doing the excluding, you can accomplish a lot more by introducing yourself to the person who feels left out, welcoming that person to the group and helping them to feel welcome.

 

[iiiset]

There's not always a hard and fast line between bullying and plain old social meanness.

 

[Lube]

For your situation, I think this nugget of advice from KaraBulut is most apt:

While you may not be able to change the behavior of others on the short term, you can accomplish a lot by being friendly, accepting and non-judgmental. Most people, in spite of appearances, are unsure of themselves. If you see someone in a situation like an LGBT student meeting who is not being welcomed and is feeling excluded from the group, instead of focusing on the people doing the excluding, you can accomplish a lot more by introducing yourself to the person who feels left out, welcoming that person to the group and helping them to feel welcome.

What I seem to be getting from your posts is that you think that everybody is an asshole, everybody is a jerk.

And that makes me wonder.

We gays can be very sensitive (I know I am!). Sometimes we misinterpret peoples' actions.

Loosen up a little, give people a chance, and don't take things so personally.

Sure, there are lots of assholes out there, but it shouldn't be too hard to find some good people, too.

Good luck and keep reporting back.

 

[willrod1989]

Update: Thank you guys so much for your advice! I decided to put myself out there and go to a Halloween party on campus tonight. As usual, a lot of jerks there, but I did make a new friend. He was sort of in the corner, left out, and, of course, being the friendly person I am, I went to talk to him. Turns out he's gay too, and has been treated like crap just like I have. So, yeah, I at least found one nice guy, and that really made my day Plus, I also learned that if people around here are treating me like crap, at least I can meet nice people here

 

[fetaby]

Cool.

I'm glad you decided not to become isolated. Have a good time in school.

 

[bankside]

Glad to hear it. Obviously, keep in touch with the decent people. But I suggest being friendly to a few of the stand-offish ones as well. Who knows, you might be able to bring out the best in someone.

 

[slnattak]

You know why this happens?

Because every gay man , every single one- wants to see a gay guy has an extension of themselves and their own desires and dreams. This comes from ironically, viewing gay men (as a whole) in a higher light then they really are. They're unable to see the reality of things, and so when you don't fit *their ideals* - they get upset.

lol I was just bullied on gay.com by other faggots the other day because I eat processed foods and I can be kind of white trash. The reason they got upset at me, is cause they took me too seriously. They wanted me to be 'their soulmate' but I can only be myself. I wasn't there to impress them, I can only be myself.

Also, many gay guys are extra proud of how 'not fag like' they are, but they're still more 'fag like' than straight guys as a whole, so usually it's the straight guys who are trying to get them to like themselves more. Gay guys are harsher, because gay men seem to think every gay guy was put on this earth to please them sexually or be exactly what they want in a relationship or friendship. But you're just being yourself, and somebody who happens to be gay.

BTW, I personally think you're very cute. I probably would get a crush on you if I talked to you after awhile. I don't mind faggy voices or faggy mannerisms, they are cute. I would probably prefer it if you ditched your glasses, but I would try to say it in a way where it wouldn't hurt your feelings. (assuming that's you in the avatar)

Anyways yeah, this occurs because ironically, gay men have high ideals for gay men as a whole, instead of treating then realistically and 'beyond a gay right's poster.'

 

[slnattak]

I think David Sedaris, talked about how he bullied other boys mercilessly who he thought was gay, to deflect the attention offa himself. Later on, he felt horrible and guilty for what he did. If anybody has to bully you to boost themselves up, you have to know that they're just insecure, for true self-confidence comes completely within and you shouldn't need to tear others down to make yourself happy. =)

it's just like 'I want to really like this guy because he's gay and I'm gay too and so I won't be so lonely, but he's just not acting in the way that i want, and because he isn't- I'm going to bother him.'

other gay men looked at me with romantic eyes, but I just wasn't the person that they wanted me to be, I could only be me- and then that's when they started bullying.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, well, I don't know what got under your skin, but come on, You're painting with a pretty wide brush there, and frankly, I don't buy it.

It smacks of:

"...the rest of the world is crazy..."

I know plenty of nice gay men. I know a few assholes. But most guys are just guys, some you click with, some you don't, most of them, gay or straight aren't much interested in pushing people around.

 

[willrod1989]

Also, many gay guys are extra proud of how 'not fag like' they are, but they're still more 'fag like' than straight guys as a whole, so usually it's the straight guys who are trying to get them to like themselves more. Gay guys are harsher, because gay men seem to think every gay guy was put on this earth to please them sexually or be exactly what they want in a relationship or friendship. But you're just being yourself, and somebody who happens to be gay.

BTW, I personally think you're very cute. I probably would get a crush on you if I talked to you after awhile. I don't mind faggy voices or faggy mannerisms, they are cute. I would probably prefer it if you ditched your glasses, but I would try to say it in a way where it wouldn't hurt your feelings. (assuming that's you in the avatar)

Anyways yeah, this occurs because ironically, gay men have high ideals for gay men as a whole, instead of treating then realistically and 'beyond a gay right's poster.'

I totally agree- I'm just trying to be myself and it seems I don't fit their "ideals", you know? I'm not very stereotypical, I do have a slightly higher pitched voice, and obviously that makes them think I'm not "manly" enough. Ugh, I understand what you mean though, and I guess I should just shrug it off. I did meet a nice guy though, and I find it hilarious how we can hang out and stuff without thinking about sex or relationships or whatnot (he is really cute though, but idk, it's pretty refreshing to just have someone to talk to who understands me). I'm hoping to make some new friends though, as almost all of my friends through high school have moved away- and I kind of had to put off going straight to college to help take care of my sick grandfather who passed away last year. Any suggestions on where I could possibly meet some non-stuck up guys? lol

Oh, by the way, that picture *is* me, but I've recently switched to contacts LOL.

 

[willrod1989]

other gay men looked at me with romantic eyes, but I just wasn't the person that they wanted me to be, I could only be me- and then that's when they started bullying.

Yeah, I think that's mostly what's going on- happened again today. Once again, I got made fun of and basically squashed like a bug. That one guy that I met who I though was actually pretty decent ended up doing the same thing as the others have. I kept getting told that I was a little too chubby, too hairy, and that my voice didn't sound right. I was called a freak. How the hell am I supposed to try to be nice and show my true self if people don't appreciate me for who I am? It's getting to the point that I hate myself, which is really bad- lord knows, I hate my voice enough as it is- I've lost weight and I'm continuing to lose more- and, well, I'm naturally really hairy.

I'm scared to reach out and meet people because if I do that, I'm just going to get made fun of again. I really don't know what to do anymore. I'm a bit scared, depressed, and alone Does anyone have advice? Help!

 

[Echoes]

mate, you're around assholes, don't let them get you down, ignore them, stay healthy. other than that, have you thought of the possibility of making straight friends? there's no reason for a gay man not to have straight friends, if gays around you are so fucked up that they have to bully others to feel well, then they just don't deserve you as a friend, stop trying with them, stick with your friends, you said you had 2 lesbian friends, have fun with them, they may know some guys you can be friend with and spend some time. Don't hate yourself, from what I have read you're quite a nice guy, there's beauty in all of us. If college doesn't work for you as a source of gay friends you may find, then move on, finish your studies and see it just as a place for learning. There's more out there you don't know, there's a lot of amazing people too, you just seem to be stuck with the shitty ones, I'm sorry you're going through a bad time but it DOES GET BETTER. You've already got here with us, I can assure you'll find good people here, even if we're far among each other why can't we be friends with you?

don't give up, I wish you the best and feel free to PM me if you feel like it.
hugs.

 

[bankside]

Who are these people that they feel they have a right to offer their worthless opinions like that? I'm a little stunned.