Can animals be bullies?

[2243]

The dogs only crime was being too curious and big enough to be perceived as a serious threat to the baby deer. The Doe's reaction was not unjustified since the dog is the same as a wolf and a wolf would have been a real danger to the baby. For that matter, so would many dogs though not necessarily this one.

The cat was seen as a less of a threat because of his small size but the Doe did turn on him when he continued to press. Cats are territorial just like dogs and they can express it by bullying other animals like that.

Bingo.

About a minute into the video you can even see the fawn reacting to what probably looks like a wolf to it. It feels threatened and drops to the ground trying to be as flat and motionless as as possible. Then its mother goes after that poor doggie, but at least it survived.

Also, I'd like to add that the cat ran like hell as soon as it realized its scare tactics were futile and that it was about to be stomped into the grass by something that was easily 8 to 10 times its size, doing anything other than that would only have left it stupid and dead.

 

[mbamike]

The cat was much closer than the dog, why wasn't the cat attacked first?

 

[rareboy]

With 5 cats of varying ages and backgrounds, I can assure you that indeed, animals can bully one another.

 

[HunterM]

The cat was much closer than the dog, why wasn't the cat attacked first?

Maybe the size of the cat is much smaller than the fawn. Therefore, it looks harmless...but annoying. The size of that dog looks like the same size or slightly larger than the fawn. Thus, it could do serious harm to her baby.

Size matters!

 

[Sam Blum]

well, the dog was only captured when he was attacked. IT could've possibly have been the dog opening the door, he got curious and a bit too close. When my dogs were out in the streets, it's usually because they dug under the fence or ran when they had the chance. It would be stupid to let them roam freely when there are cars on the streets and they wouldn't look before crossing...

Didn't I see a video that was filmed showing the fawn reacting to a perceived threat by dropping to the ground by the car? And weren't there voices of observers in the background. I'm probably assuming far too much, but I imagined the voices belonged to the owners of the dog by their language.

People build in areas where wildlife has long lived and create artificial habitats that encourage those wild animals to enter the built area, before complaining about violent encounters and demanding that the wildlife be shot or baited.

The other day several people posted notes to remind us that when a shark attacks us, it is futile and immoral to hunt down sharks in some kind of vengeful response, given they act instinctively and we are in their environment. Same goes here.

 

[ixthrock]

Anthropomorphizing animals is a no no.

As much as you and I are alright on so many things, this sort of surprises me. I mean, granted, applying anthropomorphic qualities to animals can often be over-extended due to our greater (HA!) reasoning abilities et. al, but... We humans ARE animals.

 

[JayHawk]

Quite.

But animals can be bullies -- I've seen dogs that pick on other dogs for no reason at all.



Extremely unethical!

I say Bullshit but deer can fight their own battles Kuli



Me personally I dont understand why the dog didnt just have fun with it....

 

[ButtFlute]

Oh man, the anguish in that woman's voice was a little too intense for me. Jeeze, that was heavy.

 

[Kulindahr]

The deer is protecting its baby.
Anyone nearby will be attacked like in the wild.

I don't know if "Wild Kingdom" is still around, but there's one thing I learned about animals who are generally prey: if there's a chance to kick the ass of a predator, they'll do it, if they have young around. They may do it anyway, but when their young are around, "predator" means "enemy", even if it isn't acting threatening.

I once encountered a black bear on a long backpacking trip. I immediately stopped and made myself look large -- raised my 7' hiking staff high, unclipped my ice axe and stuck it out the other way. The bear wasn't looking daunted at all. Then I heard a rustling, and glanced sideways -- a cub.

Happily for the length of my life, bears these days don't automatically assume humans are predators. Without thinking about it, I bowed to the mama bear -- a symbol of conceding the territory? I don't know why I did it. Then very deliberately, without turning around, I slowly backed up, making quite sure I didn't so much as wiggle my head toward the cub, but kept focused on the mama bear.

I'm sure that in that situation my time sense was all screwed up. I remember it as after a couple of seconds the mama made a noise and the cub went bounding along, passing behind her. The mama watched me, still backing up, for a second or two, then turned to follow her cub.


Bears are both predator and prey, so they'll think about attacking. Animals that are just prey don't; it's instinct. My dog Bammer went to investigate a three-point buck deer once. Tail wagging, happy as can be, he was just being his friendly self. To the buck that made no difference -- Bammer got a 'flying lesson', scooped up by three antler prongs and tossed back down the hillside.

Every now and then an exception will come along; there are YouTube vids of deer exchanging greetings with dogs. But what this vid shows is more generally the case.

 

[Kulindahr]

I am surprised that people living in an area that is shared with deer or other large animals would be so silly as to leave their dog free to wander the streets.

It is a necessity for the survival of all animals in the wild to follow sharp instincts, and the fact is that dogs pose a real threat to other animals, especially a deer with fawn.

When I was 14, one of our mares killed two of the neighbour's dogs on our property after they entered her paddock. She had a new foal, and I guess she just couldn't take the risk.

Earlier than that tragedy, my cousins lost a couple of their Border Collies after the dogs got involved in a fight between two bulls on their dairy farm.

Animals don't have the luxury of being able to assume the role of a person. If the owners of the dog had really cared they would have prevented a problem with proper animal welfare risk management - a lead and or a fence for the dog. Good to learn the dog's recovering.

Far too many people are irresponsible with their pets.

On a side note: I once watched a farm dog -- some kind of collie, I think -- intervene in a battle between two cows. It managed the encounter safely because it was a breed that had herded livestock for millennia, and had been trained (more by its mother than by humans), so it knew what it was doing. It was fascinating to watch; over and over the dog got missed by a hoof as it darted in and whipped away. Pretty quick it had stopped the fight by getting the cows to turn to face it -- I guess they forgot about their feud.

BTW, I got a kick from a calf once -- at three months old, it wasn't breaking legs, but it felt like it. An adult bovine can kick right through two-inch thick lumber if it's really pissed.
And a deer's kick can break ribs without any extra effort at all -- so come to think of it, that dog got off easy.

 

[Kulindahr]

that deer should have been taken down

Why? It was protecting its fawn.

I say Bullshit but deer can fight their own battles Kuli

"Bullshit" on what -- your unethical suggestion?

Right there is a big reason why I wear a sidearm when hunting -- if some animal closes on me, attacking, my rifle will be useless; not so a pistol.

Me personally I dont understand why the dog didnt just have fun with it....

That's hilarious. BTW, if the guy wanted to escape, he could have grabbed an ear and twisted hard while pulling down. It's not guaranteed, but if you can topple a deer, it will decide it's not going to win, and retreat.

 

[Kulindahr]

I didn't have audio the first time.

If that woman had screamed in anger instead of terror, and charged the doe, the doe would have fled -- it won't take on two predators at once, especially when one is reacting like a female protecting its young, and sounding like an enraged cougar.

 

[AlmondMilk]

Didn't I see a video that was filmed showing the fawn reacting to a perceived threat by dropping to the ground by the car? And weren't there voices of observers in the background. I'm probably assuming far too much, but I imagined the voices belonged to the owners of the dog by their language.

Yes, we watched the same video, but I referred to your comment about the dog. They didn't show the dog prior to being attacked. All we see is the kitten and the fawn. Then we see the doe charging towards the dog. There's a reason the dog was on the street. We don't know that reason, but you made it sound like the owners just let their dog run around outside an area that wasn't gated. I was just saying that, having dogs myself, when animals are outside, sometimes dogs will just charge outside of the doors. Perhaps that's what this dog did.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, we watched the same video, but I referred to your comment about the dog. They didn't show the dog prior to being attacked. All we see is the kitten and the fawn. Then we see the doe charging towards the dog. There's a reason the dog was on the street. We don't know that reason, but you made it sound like the owners just let their dog run around outside an area that wasn't gated. I was just saying that, having dogs myself, when animals are outside, sometimes dogs will just charge outside of the doors. Perhaps that's what this dog did.

A properly trained dog won't.

In the wild, canines take the cue to attack from the pack leader. A dog owner is supposed to be the pack leader. If a dog attacks without the cue from the owner, then the owner has not established that leadership properly.

Not reacting that way is one of the elements of the canine Good Citizenship award, which every dog ought to be able to meet.

 

[ButtFlute]

Cats are natural bullies.

Soulless assholes.