Can we talk about crime and punishment?

[belamyi]

"Adult" is an arbitrary and ambiguous term. Most if not all states have laws about when and where adolescents are granted certain rights. Driving, drinking alcohol, sex, marriage (not an exhaustive list) are "rights" granted at various stages based upon what law makers see as an appropriate age for juveniles to be allowed to participate. Some will say that driving is a privilege and not a right, if that were to be true then the state could on a whim deny some that privilege.

All of the ages when certain rights are allowed are based upon a "one size fits all" sort of reasoning that is a consensus of the majority of law makers. However, anyone that has dealt with teens would tell you that there are outliers in every age group.

Since you brought the topic in, "right and privilege" and "adult and minor" had the same complexities and "boundary" problems, being part of a whole system of law, "semantics" and social habits, prejudices and assumptions.

On a whim, a state can deny certain rights and privileges without even directly addressing them.

 

[NotHardUp1]

"Adult" is an arbitrary and ambiguous term.

Indeed. And I'm fully aware the State of Michigan does not recognize a 15-year-old as an adult with rights to use that gun. My comment is that he usurped the role of an adult, and as such, reaped the consequences of adult actions.

It would be the same for a youth stealing a car, using it in a drive-by shooting, or vehicular homicide.

Legal right and adult action are not the same.

Some will say that driving is a privilege and not a right, if that were to be true then the state could on a whim deny some that privilege.

Many feel it is a right. It never has been. But, the State does not act on whims, but law, including magistrates.

All of the ages when certain rights are allowed are based upon a "one size fits all" sort of reasoning that is a consensus of the majority of law makers. However, anyone that has dealt with teens would tell you that there are outliers in every age group.

But that is also true of adults of many years past the age of majority. The law and its definitions are not customized. A mother is a mother. A husband is a husband. An adult is an adult, barring legal conservatorship.

This is when parental responsibility is most important. But, what about a home that is only a house? It seems that a teacher should be able to detect a child that is neglected.

All I can say is, having between 60-120 kids a day and a full schedule in class doesn't leave a lot of time for emotional surveys. This is high school. The kids are moody, hyper, angry, silly, mouthy, lazy, bored, indifferent, and 100 other things in one week. Some wear their feelings on their sleeves. Others are a wall. Imagining that teachers are like Room 222 is a bit wishful.

Many kids hit high school and are abashed at the brutality of it, not only from their peers, but often from teachers who don't know them and don't make any particular effort to show care.

A teacher reported the boy who shot up the school for his drawings. The boy hid his back pack, his parents left him in school. The police were not brought in until it was too late.

His parents, from the two trials, certainly appeared to be hostile to authority, and particularly to school administration. They represent a significant element in society that breeds malcontentment. It is not exactly shocking that their mentality was partly to blame for the youth deciding to act out.

Most school shootings happened with a surprise element, this one did not. There was a huge red flag, the system really screwed up.

These should result in changed laws, just as maritime disasters do. The colossal failure at Uvalde is likely going to eventually result in some change in law enforcement response. All these are different. All these are alike.

 

[peeonme]

^^
We spend about 40,000 dollars a year on incarcerating a criminal, then we spend about 12,000 per student. I could go on about wars, military and other money pits I guess. I know also that we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We now live in a society where frustrated students, workers and societally displaced people feel that they need to go out in a blaze of "glory" rather than just quietly ended it alone.

I don't go with "that's just how it is". The money wasted on the wars we fight (and walk away from) could certainly be better spent on mental health. For profit prisons should be eliminated. There should be no profit in a criminal correction facility.

 

[belamyi]

Indeed. And I'm fully aware the State of Michigan does not recognize a 15-year-old as an adult with rights to use that gun. My comment is that he usurped the role of an adult, and as such, reaped the consequences of adult actions.

"Usurping" and "role of an adult" is what onlookers consider, not what he actually did, which is merely killing people off.

 

[NotHardUp1]

We also live in a society where a significant number of citizens choose to steal other citizens' property rather than work for their own at a time when employment is available at record levels.

Eric Eugene Washington, of Houston, was such a man. He died in an armed robbery in January 2023 at Ranchito #4, a taqueria he decided to rob at gunpoint one night around 11:30. He entered masked, and made every customer give over cash or wallets before turning to leave.

Fortunately, one of the customers he had just robbed was carrying a gun legally, and shot Washington to death. It was fortunate because Mr. Washington was a habitual violent offender, a menace to society, and deserved to die. It turns out he was wielding a plastic gun, but that's a bit of a moot point once you've used it in the pursuit of a crime and everyone had reason to believe it was a deadly weapon.

Mr. Washington had participated in at least one other robbery involving murder back a decade before when he and two co-conspirators robbed a cell phone store and shot the owner in the back during the crime. Instead of being executed, Mr. Washington served about half his sentence and was released on parole.

These are only two of the known crimes he committed, which more than imply he as committing many others, masked, but not identified. And, who knows how many he committed as a juvenile.

A grand jury did not indict the customer who was trying to just eat a late dinner with a friend before being interrupted. He gave the stolen money and wallets back to the other victims before he left the restaurant.

The sons of the cell phone store owner cheered the citizen vigilante as a hero, as did many in the area, despite him using nine shots to kill the robber.

Justice can take a very long time to come, but it can come very quickly when it does. And when a society allows crime to go unpunished appropriately, the tendency for citizen vigilante action increases dramatically, with good reason.

Grand jury will decide fate of 'hero' customer who shot and killed robber at taqueria, HPD says

Police are withholding the customer's name since he hasn't been arrested. Meanwhile, ABC13 uncovered the dead would-be El Ranchito robber's extensive criminal history.

abc13.com