Can you be gay and religious?

[Zachary170]

yes u can im a Bisexual Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian and love my church

 

[aethelreddansforth]

YOUR POINT WAS "CHRISTIAN'S YOU SAID CANNOT HAVE SEX.

With respect, what is wrongwith that? it's a fact. That's how Jesus's teachings unfold.
I just don't get it. you ask a question. someobdy answers it.
you don't ask why they think that way.
or do you own research.
or try and counter the point.
or ask why this is the case.
i don't see how anybody who has even studied the Bible in any manner can say different.
either a person hasn't read the Gospels, or they have a very bad faith interpretation of it. Like those people who say Jesus wants them to be sex workers. no, He never said that.
whether a person believes in the Bible or the standard interpretation of Jesus's teachings is immaterial.
It's just a fact that, yes, Christians shouldn't have casual sex. or sex outside of marriage.
You asked for info. you got a factual answer.
If a person asks you "Is Volkswagen a German firm?" I hope the person doesn't go hyper when you respond "yes, it is".

 

[aethelreddansforth]

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - The Lord Himself said this - (Matthew 5:27-28)

 

[thewiz]

As an ordained priest, the issue of sexuality is probably the most misunderstood topic that I run across and one that most pastors and priests will stay away from lest they cause a stroke in their congregations.

Sex has been around since humans were created. My question is: if sex was to be "dirty" or "wrong," why would a loving God make it enjoyable? Would it be so that God could damn everyone to hell because they enjoyed what was created for enjoyment? God could have made sex painful if it was to be avoided; much like touching a hot stove and not repeating the mistake.

You also have to look at scripture with an eye on what was the belief at the time. The reason the Torah (Leviticus) contains warnings not to spill the seed is because the belief was that a man injected a baby into the woman who incubated it until it was born. Life did not begin in the Jewish belief, until the baby was born and took its first breath. It has been humans who have warped when life begins and we now see the conflict that has forced women to bleed out and die because ending a pregnancy has been categorized as "abortion." Most of the people I've engaged with in the abortion debate are phony, hypoctrical frauds that joined the movement for power, prestigue, and to make a very comfortable living. The abortion debate has become "pro-birth" and certainly not pro-life or we'd see care from the moment of conception until death. We'd see an end to the death penalty and an embracing of food programs like that espoused by Governor Walz.

You know what you will not find in Leviticus or the old testament? Anything forbidding lesbians! It's because it was all about the penis and procreative actions; take away the penis and it's okay. The point being, they wanted to build up a nation with living people and women were often viewed as chattel (and in many cases still are today in divorce situations).

Misunderstanding scripture also leads to false judgement on the LGBTQ community. You might want to read https://outreach.faith/2022/09/amy-...the-bibles-clobber-passages-on-homosexuality/ AJ is a fascinating lecturer and, as a Jewish woman, is very enjoyable to hear on both the First and Second Covenants (Old and New Testament). If one fails to understand the historical context from which much of Scripture was derived, they warp the message into something enslaving and hurtful. The clobber passages have frequently been used to do just that by "religion."

As to having sex, a short study of history found that "religion" has warped what was once beautiful and enjoyable into something that should be forbidden and sinful. If an all-knowing and good God created something and gave it to creation -- is that God evil and conniving or a truly loving God? It's interesting that most cults start by limiting sex with their adherents. It is ultimately forbidden except for the "leader" of the cult who can enjoy it from everyone anytime. Sex is a great way to control people and religion is not immune from doing just that. Sex is also powerful so controlling it empowers those who are in charge. Sex can also be used as a weapon (and has) and can harm people when misused. But used as a gift and love, there is nothing wrong with sex and limiting it has produced a host of issues. Denying it has also been equally harmful -- just look at the crisis within clergy as well as humanity. Some may not have any sexual desire and that is a gift. In my work, it is rare to find someone like that and I find more who beat themselves up, spiral into despair, and feel that they are trash that should be thrown out. In my work, I find many who contemplate death by suicide do so because they feel that they are "not worthy" or are somehow
"intrinsically disordered." It is the worst and most dispicable phrase ever uttered by a religion and it's high time it was removed from any religious documents.

 

[aethelreddansforth]

As an ordained priest, the issue of sexuality is probably the most misunderstood topic that I run across and one that most pastors and priests will stay away from lest they cause a stroke in their congregations.

Sex has been around since humans were created. My question is: if sex was to be "dirty" or "wrong," why would a loving God make it enjoyable? Would it be so that God could damn everyone to hell because they enjoyed what was created for enjoyment? God could have made sex painful if it was to be avoided; much like touching a hot stove and not repeating the mistake.

You also have to look at scripture with an eye on what was the belief at the time. The reason the Torah (Leviticus) contains warnings not to spill the seed is because the belief was that a man injected a baby into the woman who incubated it until it was born. Life did not begin in the Jewish belief, until the baby was born and took its first breath. It has been humans who have warped when life begins and we now see the conflict that has forced women to bleed out and die because ending a pregnancy has been categorized as "abortion." Most of the people I've engaged with in the abortion debate are phony, hypoctrical frauds that joined the movement for power, prestigue, and to make a very comfortable living. The abortion debate has become "pro-birth" and certainly not pro-life or we'd see care from the moment of conception until death. We'd see an end to the death penalty and an embracing of food programs like that espoused by Governor Walz.

You know what you will not find in Leviticus or the old testament? Anything forbidding lesbians! It's because it was all about the penis and procreative actions; take away the penis and it's okay. The point being, they wanted to build up a nation with living people and women were often viewed as chattel (and in many cases still are today in divorce situations).

Misunderstanding scripture also leads to false judgement on the LGBTQ community. You might want to read https://outreach.faith/2022/09/amy-...the-bibles-clobber-passages-on-homosexuality/ AJ is a fascinating lecturer and, as a Jewish woman, is very enjoyable to hear on both the First and Second Covenants (Old and New Testament). If one fails to understand the historical context from which much of Scripture was derived, they warp the message into something enslaving and hurtful. The clobber passages have frequently been used to do just that by "religion."

As to having sex, a short study of history found that "religion" has warped what was once beautiful and enjoyable into something that should be forbidden and sinful. If an all-knowing and good God created something and gave it to creation -- is that God evil and conniving or a truly loving God? It's interesting that most cults start by limiting sex with their adherents. It is ultimately forbidden except for the "leader" of the cult who can enjoy it from everyone anytime. Sex is a great way to control people and religion is not immune from doing just that. Sex is also powerful so controlling it empowers those who are in charge. Sex can also be used as a weapon (and has) and can harm people when misused. But used as a gift and love, there is nothing wrong with sex and limiting it has produced a host of issues. Denying it has also been equally harmful -- just look at the crisis within clergy as well as humanity. Some may not have any sexual desire and that is a gift. In my work, it is rare to find someone like that and I find more who beat themselves up, spiral into despair, and feel that they are trash that should be thrown out. In my work, I find many who contemplate death by suicide do so because they feel that they are "not worthy" or are somehow
"intrinsically disordered." It is the worst and most dispicable phrase ever uttered by a religion and it's high time it was removed from any religious documents.

As humans, surely it's the place of people to question what God intends. That makes a mockery of religions, especially if it's over something petty over personal tastes or inconvenient things. As for cults, it depends. there have been "free love" cults. I'd think as an ordained pastor, you shouldn't really push a subjective view of faith.

 

[Franco Verum]

This is a list of several topics I wanted to discuss that I feel people aren't really discussing in the queer/gay male community which are.

Why is the downlow/discreet thing so common?
Why is ghosting so common in the gay community?
Can you be gay and religious?


Just as an introduction as I know we all come from different backgrounds and situations and experiences, I am a gay African/Black American feminine man.

So in this topic, I'm asking if you can be gay and religious.

I will say I'm gonna speak more on the african/black american religious circuit on this more. As I am black and gay.

There is a documentary about this topic BET did called, "Holler If You Hear Me."

This is just the beginning, but the full thing is also available online.

I remember when I first saw this documentary. It was very interesting to watch. Really good that BET came out with this. The guy that runs the shelter who I believe is a gay black Christian was really preaching on some true and sad shit.

But anyways, I voted "Not in the Black church."

I am a gay black man who is a Christian, so only take this from my experience.

White/alternative and black Christian churches are completely different. People who understand, understand.

Black churches are very valued. Everyone knows the congregation. Every Sunday it's same procedure and protocol.

You'll have praise and worship time with music breaks, you'll have the church announcements, testimonies. The pastor will then give his sermon, and usually there will be food served afterwards.

They are home among their own. It's like that.

However with that, there are just some things they aren't going to accept. Being gay and open isn't one of them.

Anti gay and queer messages are very common in sermons in black churches.

I feel the black church, much like the black community, isn't as accepting with LGBT and queer issues as they should. So that's why it is the way it is, like that.

You can be closeted, and not be officially apart of their congregation I suppose. Or just keep your sexuality to yourself or again just be closeted.

Like I know many music administrators and choir directors in black churches are very much homosexual. I also seen a few trans men and women in black churches who are of course in that position. But yeah.

Are there exceptions to the rule? I suppose they are. But for the most part, black churches are not okay with that.

White/alternative/affirming Churches are more expansive with how they run their churches. You'll have guest speakers come every single week. There will be church events and groups. Things like that. It's kinda more open minded that way.

They have separate groups and some even have like three different churches going on in the same hour. So it's crazy.

Even apart of the main church, you would most likely be accepted. There are some topics they don't touch or judge on. Homosexuality and queer issues are one of them. They basically follow a different

There will be more than likely a separate queer or affirming congregation or group that meets up as well.

So that way, a queer Christian can congregate with them.

Now are all white churches like this? Hell no. There are many closed minded and judgmental white churches that can go to an even further extent than black churches do. But for the most part, there are more white churches that accept queer followers, than black churches do.

That's my opinion.

Heck, I'm a born-again, Bible-believing, Pentecostal, gay man who's been married to another man for 36 years. I'm like Bigfoot, no one believes I exist, but the blurry pictures people keep taking of me in the forest are getting harder to debunk.

Great perspective from a lived experience by the way.

 

[FrodoTX]

No. Born and raised a Catholic, learned that not only humans are despicable, gays are even more.

 

[Hornypossum]

All that prevents this in Christianity is how (most) denominations and churches interpret the Bible.
They love to quote "thou shall not lie with a man as a man lies with a woman" but when the same book says you can't wear a cloth of mixed fibers or eat pork, they then mention that Jesus "fulfilled the law" and say it's not that important. If this is the church you know, I'd argue they aren't attempting to follow the example of Jesus but are instead using Christianity and the Bible to sacrilize mainstream social convention. Rather than worshipping a loving God whose "only begotten son" preached truth to power, gave selflessly to the poor, didn't his time among the marginalized and outcast and absolutely rhetorically WRECKED the rich and powerful that tried to argue with him. It's a hell of a thing when a single passage of ancient law, most of which is largely ignored, is enough to override what what the man they literally believe is God called The Great Commandment (love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself). While I'm not Lutheran, Pastor Paul Drees (an ELCA minister) is someone I follow on social media and he says something once that really stuck with me:
"Jesus is always more radical than we're ready for."
When I see people justifying hatred for their fellows with Christianity, it makes me angry, sad and disgusted all at once. These are people who aren't using religion to challenge them to be more loving, kinder and better people, but who have distorted it into a thing to make them feel better about themselves WITHOUT needing to grow. It is exactly the opposite of how faith is meant to function in one's life.

When approached like this, I see no reason why a gay man couldn't be a devout Christian if he chose to be.

 

[Franco Verum]

All that prevents this in Christianity is how (most) denominations and churches interpret the Bible.
They love to quote "thou shall not lie with a man as a man lies with a woman" but when the same book says you can't wear a cloth of mixed fibers or eat pork, they then mention that Jesus "fulfilled the law" and say it's not that important. If this is the church you know, I'd argue they aren't attempting to follow the example of Jesus but are instead using Christianity and the Bible to sacrilize mainstream social convention. Rather than worshipping a loving God whose "only begotten son" preached truth to power, gave selflessly to the poor, didn't his time among the marginalized and outcast and absolutely rhetorically WRECKED the rich and powerful that tried to argue with him. It's a hell of a thing when a single passage of ancient law, most of which is largely ignored, is enough to override what what the man they literally believe is God called The Great Commandment (love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself). While I'm not Lutheran, Pastor Paul Drees (an ELCA minister) is someone I follow on social media and he says something once that really stuck with me:
"Jesus is always more radical than we're ready for."
When I see people justifying hatred for their fellows with Christianity, it makes me angry, sad and disgusted all at once. These are people who aren't using religion to challenge them to be more loving, kinder and better people, but who have distorted it into a thing to make them feel better about themselves WITHOUT needing to grow. It is exactly the opposite of how faith is meant to function in one's life.

When approached like this, I see no reason why a gay man couldn't be a devout Christian if he chose to be.

Everything you said is a no-brainer for a conservative Bible Believer, at least it should be. What I hate is that "Progressive Christians" think now that they've figured out who the true Jesus of the Bible is, that makes them believe they can leave the rest of the Bible behind. Jesus isn't a singular truth, believe it or not; Jesus has a written backstory and a bio. When you take Jesus out of the Bible brackets? You can make Jesus into whatever you want Him to be. You've built a Build-A-Bear Jesus. That's not the Jesus who became "The Word" on Earth.

I've seen Dees, I'm also a presence on TikTok, and I've also seen him taken apart by some sound Biblical teachers. Because of what I teach on homosexuality and the Bible? I'm often accused of being a progressive Christian, but nothing can be further from the truth. I see no difference between a conservative Christian who is twisting the Bible and a progressive Christian who is twisting the Bible. Each brings a corruption to the Word of God of their own.

You bring up Leviticus. The supposed condemnation of a man sleeping with another man and the hypocrisy of eating pork and wearing mixed fabrics, also prohibited in Leviticus.

First, Leviticus never condemned homosexuality (that's a whole other ballgame if you want to go there with me). Second, conservative theologians get around your argument by saying that Leviticus is divided into 3 parts. The moral, the ceremonial, and the purity (the moral, what it supposedly says on homosexuality, is the only thing we're to carry over as binding to Christians from Leviticus, while the others, like pork/mixed fabrics, fall into the category of purity that we don't carry over), but this 3 way division of Leviticus was a CHRISTIAN INVENTION from the Westminster Confession in 1646.

I can't fathom how legitimate theologians from either side of the Bible and homosexual debate don't know this.

The ancient Jews DID divide their laws, but they did it in two parts: Mitzvot Bein Adam Lamakom (Love God), and Mitzvot Bein Adam Lachaveiro (Love Your Neighbor, first said in Leviticus 19:18). Homosexuality transgresses neither part of loving God nor loving your neighbor.

I also can't fathom how no one knows this either.


The Bible has black and white hard truths we may not always like, but the fact is this: one hard truth is that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality.

 

[FrodoTX]

one question? why should I care what the "Bible" says? an ancient book written by dozens of writers over centuries. Why should I base my life on that? How about one rule for life...DONT BE A DICK

 

[Franco Verum]

Who's telling you to care about the Bible? I'm not. If others are telling you to? They shouldn't.
It's like someone telling me I should follow a book written by leprechauns when I don't believe in leprechauns, but if someone wants to follow a book that they believe was written by leprechauns? More power to them, hope they find their pot of gold.
I totally agree, a rule of any life should be don't be a dick or a jerk. I believe it enough that I made a YouTube short saying it:

 

[GiaJones]

Why would you want to be religious, when religion does nothing but divide and create conflict? The original division and conflict lying in so called 'Original Sin' which divides a human into body mind and spirit, setting one at war within oneself to deny his 'flesh' in order to be 'spiritual', and creating separation not only in oneself but with a mythical God, so always chasing 'unity', and never being quite good enough.
God is Love; Life itself is sacred; a mind-blowing miraculous wonder, with Sex being the highest sacrament (obviously sex between a man and woman potentially creating life itself!), and observing Nature one sees it likes to fuck!
Does a Cat wake up in the morning and say to itself 'You know I really need to be a better Cat today, and be more spiritual?' Or for that matter does a Tree have a 'To-Do List'?
Many of the World's woes, if not all of them, originate in Humans being imprisoned and driven by false belief systems and warring over who is right or wrong, 'good' or 'evil'. Surely it is far more Natural, harmonious, and Life affirming (aka religious) for two men to express their Love for each other by fucking (God I Love Anal!) than all the suffering, disaster and death created by hating and trying to kill each other over who's Fairytale is correct! It really is past time to break out of these antiquated paradigms and maybe after all, us 'Homos' are actually closer to God (Love) than we've been led to believe, or the 'religious' would dare to think
That's my two cents on the topic for what its worth, because in all truth who the fuck really knows ' The Truth'?
Love is Love.
Peace

 

[GiaJones]

Here's the funny thing though;
Here we are on a Gay Porn site talking about religion and in the churches you know they're talking about Gay Porn sites

 

[GiaJones]

Thanks for the perfect edits (first time I've said that!) Moderator