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Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equality

Homoaffectional

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This is good, and its certainly more than they can say about the Liberals (which aren't all as 'liberal' as their name implies). FYI, for those who don't know, the Bloc is a Canadian separatist party that only fields candidate in Quebec, which constantly whines about breaking away from Canada and becoming its own nation, but will probably never say good-bye to all that wonderful pork on the backs of Canadian taxpayers from the other 9 provinces and 3 territories.

CANOE said:
Bloc united on gay marriage debate
ORFORD, Que. (CP) - The Bloc Quebecois has opted to present a united front against the reopening of the same-sex marriage debate by Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe put the matter to a vote at a party caucus meeting and asked members to respect the party line, Bloc MP Real Menard said in an interview Thursday.
The Bloc plans to oppose any attempts by the Conservatives to revisit the issue when Parliament returns in the fall. Five Bloc members voted against the redifinition of marriage last summer and Menard said he does not believe they have changed their minds on the issue.
"It is simply believed that the debate has taken place and it is not relevant to start it again," he said.
The New Democratic Party made support of same-sex marriage a party position and as a result its 29 MPs will vote against any motion to reopen the debate.
The Liberal caucus, meeting this week in Vancouver, has not considered the issue.
During the last federal election campaign, Harper promised to hold a free vote on the definition of marriage but hasn't pushed it since the Tories took power.
Menard cited the voting record of the previous Canadian Alliance and Reform Party, which merged to become the Conservative party, and said they generally voted against gay and lesbian rights.
"I think it is necessary to make the public understand the government is homophobic," Menard said.
"When, since 1993, you vote each time you can against gay rights, I think it should be concluded that they (the Conservatives) are homophobic," Menard said.
"If the Bloc had voted nine times against women, natives or any other specific groups in the country, I think the necessary conclusions would have been drawn."
Menard predicted any homophobia on the Conservatives part will hurt them in Quebec where gay rights are generally supported.
An Environics poll released in May indicated that 62 per cent of Canadians do not want to see the debate on same-sex marriage revived.
Duceppe also criticized Premier Jean Charest's handling of the fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and the provinces, saying Charest should hammer the federal government on the amount it owes Quebec.
Duceppe put that amount at $2 billion to $3 billion per year.
The Bloc Leader said Charest has confined his arguments to calling for a reform of the tax system, an increase in federal payments and the transfer of tax points.

Link.
 
Love them or hate them...you gotta respect the Bloc! At least when they say something, they stick to there guns.

If the block ever does truly breakaway we might just be stuck with our own version of the civil war.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

If Quebec ever became a sovereign nation, I'm sure most Canadians wouldn't care to the point of a Civil War. Just give them a portion of the federal debt etc. etc. and let them be on their way.

Well I don't know about that...we get alot of our power from Quebec. A majority of Canadians in the city won't care but it's the rural ppl who would complain!

who knows though for sure. Don't think it will happen in our lifetime! :)
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

Quebec will never separate. The Conservatives in that province picked up seats in the last election at the expense of the Bloc and Liberals after the sponsorship scandal, so it shows Quebecers are not looking for more separatists to represent them in Ottawa even when they felt screwed by the Chretien/Martin governments.

Besides, separating would be too complex and too costly. It takes Canadian politicians forever to get anything done, so it would take years and years to negotiate something of this magnitude. Public support would probably drop off before anything can get done.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

I think you are right, if Quebec were to break away from canada, it would have done so at the end of the 20th century... it didnt happen and I think the desire to separate is waning.

When people vote for the bloc, they dont necessarily vote to separate. Quebec is probably the most progressive province, they didnt vote for the Right because they are leaning towards the Right, they mainly voted for the conservatives to punish the liberals. Hopefully when the liberals pick a better leader (I am also leaning towards Ignatieff despite a few things...) they will gain alot more support in the province.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

(I am also leaning towards Ignatieff despite a few things...)
You have a good head on your shoulders. :cool:

Are you a Liberal in Alberta? They are rare. ;)
 
Yeah why is that? Why do the liberals have so much trouble with the western provinces? Also Quebec takes too much flak for standing up for themselves. Glad to see that they have decided not to cave in to Harper's demands. We'll see if Harper even has the guts to bring the same-sex marriage back to the table. I think he just used it as one stepping stone to get voted in.
 
Probably just alot more ignorance out here, Global did a special not too long ago about racism in Calgary... it was rather disturbing...

We have our fair share of rednecks out here. :/

And yes, harper probably was saying that to play to the social right... he wont win if he brings it back up.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

Yeah why is that? Why do the liberals have so much trouble with the western provinces?
Trudeau's National Energy Program played a big part. The Liberals weren't liked much before that (western alienation among other things) but the NEP killed liberal popularity. The federal government forced down the price of oil which hurt the western provinces, in order to allow cheaper fuel for the rest of the country. They had no business doing that. [-X
 
An interesting thing is that we have so much revenue from our oil reserves... but 40+ schools in Calgary have leaking and collapsing roofs... we have billions in excess wealth yet our schools are terribly underfunded, our hospitals are overflowing and it takes hours in the emergency room to get a doctor... it pisses me off!
 
Probably just alot more ignorance out here, Global did a special not too long ago about racism in Calgary... it was rather disturbing...

We have our fair share of rednecks out here. :/

Of course! Alberta is your Texas, after all...


Back to the marriage issue, though... the latest news --

MPs not expected to reopen same-sex marriage debate

Janice Tibbetts, CanWest News Service

Published: Monday, September 11, 2006
OTTAWA -- When MPs rise in the House of Commons this fall to cast votes on whether to revisit Canada's same-sex marriage law, they are widely expected to put the issue to rest with the majority voting no.
The Bloc and NDP have both decided to vote as parties against reopening debate, a strong majority of Liberals are expected to take the same position and even a sizeable number of Conservatives have either publicly stated their intentions to vote no or are musing they may do so because they think it's time to turn their attention to other issues.
"I do think there's a general feeling that it is time to move on," said Gerald Keddy, a Nova Scotia Conservative MP who was one of four Tories to side with the Liberal government's 2005 legislation legalizing gay marriage. "I believe that people will not vote to reopen debate. There are a number of my colleagues who may not have changed their position on samegender marriage, but are really satisfi ed that the debate has been thorough and the debate is over." Interest groups on both sides in the contentious debate have been lobbying MPs through the summer and trying to assess the outcome of the vote the minority Parliament.
With all 79 Bloc Quebecois and New Democrats vowing to vote against reviving the issue, along with at least 11 Conservatives thus far, the No forces need only 60 of 102 Liberals onside and the vast majority of that party is expected reject the government's motion.
In fact, there are approximately 27 undecideds or gay-marriage opponents in the 101-member Liberal caucus, and even if they all voted to reopen the issue it would still not be enough.
"At this moment, we're cautiously optimistic the majority would vote against reopening," said Gilles Marchildon, executive director of Egale Canada, a same-sex rights group that pushed hard for the marriage law.
"That's our math." In June 2005, the House of Commons voted 158-133 to legalize gay marriage. Marchildon predicted the outcome will be similar this time around, despite the fact that Parliament was reconfi gured by the last election.
On the other side of the issue, supporters of the traditional defi nition of marriage have formed coalition and say they have been lobbying parliamentarians all summer in an effort to persuade dozens of undecided MPs and newcomers since the last election to vote to reopen debate.
Gay-marriage opponent Gwen Landolt, national vice-president of the group Real Women, acknowledged the nature of the motion could prove daunting.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper promised on the first day of the winter election campaign to table a motion on whether the law should be revisited. In the event of a yes vote, the Conservatives would craft legislation revoking samesex marriage.
"It's a different kind of vote -- it's whether you want to reopen the debate, not whether you're in favour of same-sex marriage -- and that changes the whole dynamic," Landolt said.
"Some of them are afraid of the issue; some of them don't want to get into it when there is going to be another election, certainly in the spring or summer of next year, and they don't want to be caught up in it." Opposition parties and legal scholars have said that Harper would have to invoke the notwithstanding clause in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to revoke gay marriage because several Canadian courts have already declared that it is a right.

Link.
 
The more important question to ask is...If Harper and his Conservatives feel that they're not going to win the next election...could he/would he use the notwithstanding clause??! I understand the need of such a clause to exist but at the same time...It's lot of power to leave in the hands of one person.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

I knew in the back of my mind that it wouldnt get through, this just re-affirms it!

:D Freedom 1, Social Right 0
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

The more important question to ask is...If Harper and his Conservatives feel that they're not going to win the next election...could he/would he use the notwithstanding clause??! I understand the need of such a clause to exist but at the same time...It's lot of power to leave in the hands of one person.
No they'd never do it. In the unlikely event that they chose to go ahead with enacting the clause, it can only remain active for 5 years, then gay marriage would automatically become legal again, provided the government doesn't extend the clause once it expires. The Liberals would be back in power and wouldn't let that happen anyway.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

I knew in the back of my mind that it wouldnt get through, this just re-affirms it!

:D Freedom 1, Social Right 0

Sorry don't really see the competing the nature of the two you cited; not even sure why you used those specific words/phrases, and I certainly don't get how you say the one of them won, and the other lost.

But if you're saying basically that 'Freedom' means the freedom of equal marriage rights, then I totally back what you're saying (natch)! I just don't see opposition to equal marriage rights as a 'social right'...? :confused:
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

No they'd never do it.

Indeed, and it would basically relegate the Tories back to opposition after waiting for 13 years, and working soooo hard to get enough Quebecans to help them to get back into power... and this time they'd be the opposition for as long as 25 years...
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

Sorry don't really see the competing the nature of the two you cited; not even sure why you used those specific words/phrases, and I certainly don't get how you say the one of them won, and the other lost.

But if you're saying basically that 'Freedom' means the freedom of equal marriage rights, then I totally back what you're saying (natch)! I just don't see opposition to equal marriage rights as a 'social right'...? :confused:

I dont mean social right, as in it is a right... I mean social right as in social conservatism... right wing versus left wing.

Social conservatives fight for traditional values... ie they fight against gay rights and abortion amongst other things.

Freedom (as in our gay rights) won over the social conservatives in this case.
 
Re: Canada -- Bloc's caucus opts to unanimously oppose turning back the clock on equa

I dont mean social right, as in it is a right... I mean social right as in social conservatism... right wing versus left wing.

Ah! Got it! Thanks for the clarification. Social 'conservatism' would help avoid confusion in future -- just a suggestion. ;)
 
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