Can't change...

[MoltenRock III]

Honestly, no. I wouldn't call myself a religious person and I don't believe every single story there. But like I keep saying, it's the closest thing to God we have and if there is a God (and I believe there is) that's how he will probably see it.

It's not just the bible. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it "wrong" acording to all religions?

Absolutely not! There are plenty of religions that don't have the anti-homosexuality zealotry that fundamentalist so-called "Christians" have. So you say you're not religious but believe in "god". How do you know which "god" is THE God, when you've just reflexively decided that the one your dad picked, or rather was born into, was the right one? Why don't you take the time to learn about other religions, and / or visit a gay friendly church and ask the pastor there how they reconcile being gay with the bible?

 

[Rolyo85]

Also, being gay wasn't even wrong for Christians until well into the middle ages... Just throwing that out there, not that it will make any difference.

 

[JohnstonKommer]

Okay, I have been in your position MANY times. Still am sometimes.

As much thinking about how or why you're gay is ridiculous waste of time, I've figured out. The fact always remain, you're gay, that's what you are. You hear about people 'changing' all the time. The fact still remains that they're gay, they truly live lies. Anyone who tells you need to suppress yourself, isn't thinking about your well-being.

The bible says a lot. I personally believe, even when I don't want to. Just how I feel about it. I believe the majority because I've experienced it personally, but I'm gay simultaneously. There are passages in the bible that cast judgement here and there, but there are also verses that promise salvation hands down, no matter what. So I find it contridictory partly. Plus quoting any part of the Old Testament laws is stupid. The point of the New Testament law is to replace the old testament's. Seriously. People should still be slaughtering sheep everytime they cut their hair then. Rubbish.

Listen, I still go to a hateful, yet loving church. It's strange. They acknowledge my sexuality, but they don't throw me out or anything. I recieve love here and there from people with that 'real' christian attitude. Sure people scoff at me, shoot me dirty looks, but I'm not there for them. I'm myself all the time. It's possible to be both believing and gay. Don't let anyone tell you different. I believe the spiritual parts, but honestly all strict condemning rules were written by men solely. In fact it's been proven that words have been changed for slant in the KJV which supposedly is the first English translation. I think Christianity started good, but it's been warped by people for selfish reasons over the years.

I'm just 18, but I felt like I lived a lie my whole life. I figured out now it's just because I wasn't being myself. My mother always told me I was living a lie because I was a heathen, and I went to church. Point is, whether you're living a lie is up to you. Depression is a horrid thing, but it can be comfy at times.

I'm glad you're out here talking to people though. I'm all over the place, I know. I think a lot on all this too though. Just SO MUCH time spent mulling over this. Daily. Just know you're not alone.

 

[JohnstonKommer]

Stop defining every aspect of your existence by your sexuality. And I don't believe that "coming out" means that you take out an ad in the newspaper. I am truthful about my sexuality to those that need to know if I trust them. I trust my parents but they do not need to know what goes on in my bedroom. It is none of their business. I have chosen not to discuss it with them and that is my choice. I would suggest that you take control of your sexuality and have some fun with it. Stop letting it control you.

^GOOD FUCKING ADVICE. Didn't mean to double-post, but I needed this too. Think on this.

 

[Ganoderma]

I have to say your question caught me a little off guard, so I hope you explain why you asked later. As for your question - it's really not my place to judge. I'm a harsh critic of myself but I have absolutely nothing against those who can actually overcome what I couldn't.

According to what you said, then no. I don't see you going to hell. You weren't raised a Christian. You've been a non-believer since you were a kid. I don't believe those who were raised to be a certain way will be judged that harshly. When religion isn't part of your family's life and you're not aware of the importance of sins, no one can blame you for having a free mind. Me on the other hand...I'm aware of everything and have been since I was a kid. There's a difference the way I see it.

Hi Dmhead,

Thanks for your reply. I don't like your reply that it's really not my place to judge. Towards my opinion, you try to avoid to give such an answer. Please be honest to me, and please don't try to avoid to give me a harsh reply. You are a devote christian, and that means, at least to me, that you should be able to provide me with an answer, also answers on so-called 'awkward questions'.

I was using the word 'later', as we are right now discussing about questions where almost all fundamental christians refuse to provide me with an honest answer.

Son non-believers will never go to Hell? Excuse me very much, but do you try to tell this to me? I am like some sort of 'innocent child'?

So a devote christian will be judged more harshly then me? So a gay christian who has sex with other males will have a larger chance to end in Hell then me?

That's very nice, because then you can just stop to be a fundamental christian, and then your chances to end in Hell will also be less? Or does it matter how long people have been a christian? 1 year? 2 months? 10 year? 23 years? Who decides where the border has to be drawn?
-----------------------------------

Dear Dmhead, I would like it very much that you are honest to me. What do you mean that you are 'aware of everything and have been since I was a kid.' Do you suggest that this is not the case for me?

And, in the end, do you agree with me that a straight & devote christian male of 55 who is married and has a bunch of kids is indeed a better human being then me (stated that all other relevant details are equal)?

Thanks in advance for a reply.

 

[Seasoned]

Welcome to JUB and thank you for posting. It took guts to state your thoughts and feelings and I'm proud of you for that. You were able to concisely explain your history and inner turmoil. Many, many, many gay men have stood in your shoes and have had similar experiences.

My intention in responding to your post is to support a fellow gay man to to let you know that I will read and respond to any private message you might send to me. The primary thing that all gay people have in common is the coming out process and the fact that it begins as a thought or series of thoughts in one's mind alone and in private. There is no need for a straight person to go though a similar process because in a heterosexist society people are presumed straight. So every gay person comes to some conclusion about themselves and then proceeds to deal with it with the tools at hand. That can be quite the burden at age 11 or 12.

For over 10 years you've maintained a secret and have been your own counsel, a situation I consider unfair and one which is exactly like the one I faced at the same age. My response was to get married at age 23 because I didn't want to be different. It wasn't a total mistake because I have two children I love who wouldn't be here otherwise, but the process of coming to terms with who I am took a toll and might have had far different consequences than the one's I have had.

It's counterproductive for anyone to try to argue you into a different belief system than the one you have. That is your journey to take, hopefully with support now that you've reached out. I could judge you and what you've said and "correct" your "errors," but what good would it do and what impact would it have? Even if I won the debate the outcome might leave you more isolated and sadder than you were when you wrote this post.

I am here to reach out a hand and to answer any questions you may have about my story and to tell you some of my beliefs.
-Gay is the other normal.
-No one was put here to be miserable.
-Life is a journey of self exploration and self acceptance.
-Mental pain, like physical pain, needs treatment.
-Secrets keep me isolated.
-I control my happiness.
-God, as I understand god, thinks highly of me.
-I'm at my best when I work with, not against what I am and what I have.

Right now you are right where you are supposed to be. You have the tools to be a better you tomorrow. PM me anytime you'd like. I'm on your side, wishing you the best.