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Captain escapes, pirates dead

Sweet. Maybe Somali pirates will think again before they hijack an American crew and hold Americans hostage. Don't do it, it ends badly for you.

As far as the UN is concerned, they are the most useless 'peace keeping' force on planet Earth. They can be so incompetent because they know when push comes to shove the US will eventually take care of the situation. Lame.
 
The "pirates" in this incidence are teenagers:

The Somali pirates who took a US merchant captain hostage for five days were heavily armed but inexperienced youths, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Monday, adding that the hijackers were aged 17 to 19.

The pirates who kidnapped Captain Richard Phillips, three of whom were killed by US Navy snipers Sunday, were "untrained teenagers with heavy weapons," Gates told a group of 30 students and faculty members at the Marine Corps War College in Quantico, Virginia.

"There is no purely military solution to" piracy in the region, he added.

"As long as you've got this incredible number of poor people and the risks are relatively small, there's really no way in my view to control it unless you get something on land that begins to change the equation for these kids."
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090413/pl_afp/somaliapiracyshippingusgates

How "queer" that the Gay Man's Republican Chorus at CE&P advocates launching assaults on Somalia as a solution to this problem.

How "queer" that the Gay Man's Republican Chorus at CE&P condemns the efforts of the UN to reach a solution to this problem.

How "queer" that the Gay Man's Republican Chorus at CE&P fails to recognize that the US Sec. of Defense states, "there is no purely military solution to" piracy.
 
Well, I feel bad now that I know they were teenagers. But I do trust the judgement of the people who fired on them when they started pointing their AK-47s at the captain.
 
Críostóir said:
Well, I feel bad now that I know they were teenagers. But I do trust the judgement of the people who fired on them when they started pointing their AK-47s at the captain.
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Why should you feel bad?
Does the fact that an armed thug is only 17 make him any less of a thug?
 
No, but a 17-year-old doesn't have the judgement or ability to work out consequences that an adult has. (This is because the part of the brain that does those things is the last one to develop into its adult form, and that happens in the early 20s.)

Yeah, they were armed thugs, but they didn't make adult decisions to become armed thugs. Part of what I feel bad about is that guys so young wound up armed thugs.

I feel bad about teenage suicide bombers too. I suspect that, like them, the teenage pirates were unduly influenced by adults who took advantage of their lack of judgement to use them as cannon fodder.

It's just such a waste. I don't think the decision to shoot them was wrong, or should have been influenced by their age. In fact, teenagers are MORE likely to pull the trigger on a helpless victim than adults are, for the same brain-development reasons I cited above.
 
Críostóir said:
No, but a 17-year-old doesn't have the judgement or ability to work out consequences that an adult has. (This is because the part of the brain that does those things is the last one to develop into its adult form, and that happens in the early 20s.)

Yeah, they were armed thugs, but they didn't make adult decisions to become armed thugs. Part of what I feel bad about is that guys so young wound up armed thugs.

I feel bad about teenage suicide bombers too. I suspect that, like them, the teenage pirates were unduly influenced by adults who took advantage of their lack of judgement to use them as cannon fodder.

It's just such a waste. I don't think the decision to shoot them was wrong, or should have been influenced by their age. In fact, teenagers are MORE likely to pull the trigger on a helpless victim than adults are, for the same brain-development reasons I cited above.
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I don't disagree. One might say the same thing about teen age gang bangers in LA or elsewhere, as well.

It's sad, tragic, and certainly a waste.

On the other hand, one of the lessons I have learned, sometimes painfully, over the years, is to not get too upset about things over which I have zero control.
 
Críostóir said:
Yeah, they were armed thugs, but they didn't make adult decisions to become armed thugs. Part of what I feel bad about is that guys so young wound up armed thugs.

I feel bad about teenage suicide bombers too. I suspect that, like them, the teenage pirates were unduly influenced by adults who took advantage of their lack of judgement to use them as cannon fodder.

It's just such a waste. I don't think the decision to shoot them was wrong, or should have been influenced by their age. In fact, teenagers are MORE likely to pull the trigger on a helpless victim than adults are, for the same brain-development reasons I cited above.
Click to expand...

This I can grasp. But it doesn't make me sad so much as totally pissed at the cold-hearted barbarians who send them out. Were I a Jedi knight, I'd go in after every last person upline from them, and take them out.

Or if I were a Druid Lord Adept from my old fantasy RPG, I'd turn them into pigs... :badgrin:
 
This needs to be dealt with internationally....there are the problems posted above that have been ignored for years which allowed this situation to develop to this degree.

I found this about the French....on BBC News

~~~~

French warship has captured 11 pirates off the coast of Kenya, amid calls for the international community to deal with the problem of piracy.

The pirates were captured by a warship from an EU piracy patrol, hours after a failed attack on a US ship.

News of the incidents came as the UN special envoy for Somalia said the attacks threatened international peace.

He urged financial backers of the "bandits", as he called them, to be identified and held accountable.

The latest attack involved pirates firing rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons at a US-flagged cargo ship, the Liberty Sun, which was carrying food aid for Africa.

'Mother ship'

The French Defence Ministry said the warship Nivose captured the pirates about 550 miles (900km) east of the Kenyan port of Mombasa.

It had detected a "mother ship", or command vessel, on Tuesday, and observed it overnight before launching an assault early on Wednesday, the ministry said.

An attack on a Liberian-registered vessel was also thwarted, the ministry added.

The Nivose is part of the European Union's operation to protect shipping in the Gulf of Aden.

Despite several anti-piracy patrols, there has been an increase in attacks in the past few days, with four ships seized and others attacked.

The United Nations special envoy for Somalia, Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, said the attacks were threatening international peace.

In a BBC interview, he also called for help for poor Somalis themselves, many of whom were being exploited by the pirates.

Source Link (added by moderator): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8000447.stm
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~~~~

This doesn't require us to invade, torture or in any way follow the neocon play book. We need to uphold the rule of law and do something about the abuse of the ocean and people in that part of the world by the first world as well as those financing the pirates.

The UN can do more if we stop treating it like a pet. If you check out how the Bush administration used their power to influence/control various issues (birth control etc.) it gives a different view of the UN. American exceptionalism is crap, we need to lead by example not by corporate greed.

There are gun runners involved in this and resources the first world wants as well. I personally hope that Spain puts enormous pressure on the Obama administration to investigate, prosecute and imprison those in the Bush administration that broke the law...not to mention what they did to our Constitution. Sorry, off topic....
 
cAndId -- good stuff!

It sounds as though the pirates are going after the wrong people: they should be seizing those foreign fishing ships, and cargoes, and going after the ships dumping waste.

Our Constitution provides for issuing "letters of marque and reprisal", essentially issuing authorization to private entities to strike against ships engaged in illegal activities contrary to the interests of the country. Whatever passes for a government in Somalia should issue such to these pirates for the purpose of seizing and disposing of (auction or other sale, scrapping, whatever) vessels in their waters which are engaged in illegal fishing and dumping. That would give the pirates something useful to do, allow them to make their money, give the government a cut, help their fisheries recover, and more.
 
boogalee said:
The UN can do more if we stop treating it like a pet. If you check out how the Bush administration used their power to influence/control various issues (birth control etc.) it gives a different view of the UN. American exceptionalism is crap, we need to lead by example not by corporate greed.
Click to expand...

The UN could do a better job if we kicked out all the countries headed by dictators, and suspended the votes of those with humans rights violations carried out regularly by the government -- like, where people are hanged for being gay, where women are treated like property, where any religions are persecuted. Right now it's hamstrung by petty players who treat it as a game, and mouth the pious phrases about human dignity hypocritically. So long as representatives from countries which make a mockery of the Charter, etc. can sit in the General Assembly or the Security Council, the U.N. will continue to be what Bush treated it as: a tool for furthering national interests.
 
Kulindahr said:
The UN could do a better job if we kicked out all the countries headed by dictators, and suspended the votes of those with humans rights violations carried out regularly by the government -- like, where people are hanged for being gay, where women are treated like property, where any religions are persecuted. Right now it's hamstrung by petty players who treat it as a game, and mouth the pious phrases about human dignity hypocritically. So long as representatives from countries which make a mockery of the Charter, etc. can sit in the General Assembly or the Security Council, the U.N. will continue to be what Bush treated it as: a tool for furthering national interests.
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Yeah that's a good Idea, send the United Nations on a puritanical moral purge that alienates the people who we can't influence in any other way - by the way how many countries would vote to kick us out do you think. Set a precedent in the UN for explicit exclusion based on the opinions of others, Turn a forum that at the very least serves as a diplomatic buffer into an organization that hands down judgment from on high. Yeah, that ought to help things.

The UN already addresses the issues you're talking about, you just don't like how non-militaristic it's solutions are, and frankly, I'd think you'd be the last person to suggest that the UN be given a precedent for forcing policy on individual governments, isn't that a little to NWO for you Libertarians?
 
Kulindahr said:
This I can grasp. But it doesn't make me sad so much as totally pissed at the cold-hearted barbarians who send them out. Were I a Jedi knight, I'd go in after every last person upline from them, and take them out.

Or if I were a Druid Lord Adept from my old fantasy RPG, I'd turn them into pigs... :badgrin:
Click to expand...

I agree about how those people should fucking die. I'd really like to dissolve them in lye.
 
TX-Beau said:
Yeah that's a good Idea, send the United Nations on a puritanical moral purge that alienates the people who we can't influence in any other way - by the way how many countries would vote to kick us out do you think. Set a precedent in the UN for explicit exclusion based on the opinions of others, Turn a forum that at the very least serves as a diplomatic buffer into an organization that hands down judgment from on high. Yeah, that ought to help things.

The UN already addresses the issues you're talking about, you just don't like how non-militaristic it's solutions are, and frankly, I'd think you'd be the last person to suggest that the UN be given a precedent for forcing policy on individual governments, isn't that a little to NWO for you Libertarians?
Click to expand...

From a libertarian perspective, the U.N. is a contractual association. The Charter, and various resolutions and declarations, give the terms of the contract. Those nations not living up to the contract ought to have their privileges suspended, at the very least.

This isn't a matter of "forcing policy" on anyone, it's a matter of requiring members to live up to policies they've agreed to already. Take, for example, a phrase from the opening of the Charter: "to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war". Much of what passes of "solutions" from the U.N. tolerates war as though it is no big deal -- for example, in Somalia, which is a basket case of multi-sided war.. And when innocents are dying, when they can be terrorized and effectively enslaved because warlords have free reign, not using force is like sitting a watching people being beaten and trampled to death in a riot and not sending in the police.
 
Kulindahr said:
From a libertarian perspective, the U.N. is a contractual association. The Charter, and various resolutions and declarations, give the terms of the contract. Those nations not living up to the contract ought to have their privileges suspended, at the very least.

This isn't a matter of "forcing policy" on anyone, it's a matter of requiring members to live up to policies they've agreed to already. Take, for example, a phrase from the opening of the Charter: "to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war". Much of what passes of "solutions" from the U.N. tolerates war as though it is no big deal -- for example, in Somalia, which is a basket case of multi-sided war.. And when innocents are dying, when they can be terrorized and effectively enslaved because warlords have free reign, not using force is like sitting a watching people being beaten and trampled to death in a riot and not sending in the police.
Click to expand...

Quibble quibble there Khuli I expect better from you.
 
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