catholic faith and pornography

[careandrespect]

Hello guys,
Its been a while since I last logged on to JUB. I have a question to ask and I was hoping to receive some advice. I am a Catholic and I am gay too. The biggest struggle I have been facing latey is the question about looking at pornographic material. I know that from the Catechism of the Catholic Church it states that looking at pornography is a grave offense (CCC 2354). I have talked to a few individuals who are knowledgeable about church teachings and some have said that there was nothing wrong with looking at it for it should be seen as just an "outlet" others have told me to avoid it all together for it is "evil".

I feel like I am in the middle of a "tug-o-war" between the two viewpoints. Any information about how you see this issue would be most apprecieated.

Thank you,
careandrespect

 

[Andreus]

in the end one would imagine it comes down to you and your connection with your god...

what a great beauty the human body is

a better question would be to ask is what is the difference between art, like those on the ceilings of the sisteen chapel, versus pornography

and as with all things spiritual.... what are your intentions?

does pornography interfere with your ability to make and have meaningfull relationships with other human beings?

a thing is just a thing...

what WE do with it...

that is the true spiritual journey

 

[RobbyIsTehCool]

According to your faith it is sinful. What you decide to do with that knowledge is up to you.

 

[ludolfo]

hahaha ...its a game the patriarchal belief systems do!

The 'forbidden fruit game'. Ie., they tell you you mustn't, and this of course will attract you all the more...haha

Thing is, porn is like anything else. it can sting and it can heal. Some people get totally addicted to it. I once met this woman when i was doing voluntary work at a needle exchange. She told me that her lover would be on the computer till the early hours watching porn. And she was left unsatisfied upstairs. So....one day, she came down , found him on it, and took a pick axe to the computer smashing it to bits!!!

Some people you here, seemingly ordinary married men, vicars, schoolteachers get done after downloading zillions of images of child porn. Surely that is temptation thats got outta hand right.

Also whats with SO many images? You would think thety would find a few and that'd be it. But the natyure of PORN in all its business is to keep ya wanting more and more

But having said that. What it was like before porno. Kids would grow up not knowing what sex was all about. ESPECIALLY Gay kids, who were completely alienated. So porn CAn be liberating. It can encourage you to feel and be more liberated, and try different things and not feel a freak etc. cause it caters for all kinds of things...

Just remember. Moderation

dont worry what others say

 

[cesar1414]

Do you honestly feel like God will be offended by you watchig porn? Well, you are just following your own instincts, and that my friend is your nature, and God respects that, God is there to love you not to punish you.

 

[cesar1414]

Do you honestly feel like God will be offended by you watchig porn? Well, you are just following your own instincts, and that my friend is your nature, and God respects that, God is there to love you not to punish you.

 

[Orlandude]

I would agree with Andreus and others. It is really up to you. I too was raised a Catholic and the religious stance on pornography is hardly limited to Catholicism. Most christian religions take a very dim view of it, if not total condemnation for the most part. It is viewed as unhealthy, immoral, psychologically damaging, thus, inconsistent with God's will. They all say, or have said, the same thing about masturbation. (Please! I won't even go there.) Religion blames pornography for all the sexual ills of society and, as a group, have made several attempts to censor the internet, in an effort to force their morals on everyone else. Most of those efforts have failed since nobody really owns the internet and there are freedom of speech issues they can't overcome. I am probably not one to comment because I do not believe in organized religion, however, I DO believe in God and I don't believe He cares much about pornography. I have yet to find the word "pornography" in the Bible, just as I have yet to find the words "homosexual" or "gay" in the Bible. All I see are phrases taken out of context and used to "interpret" the way religion wants to see things.

Remember that the root purpose of most religions was and is CONTROL. Even in modern society, religion and religious fantacism is the cause of most of the bloodshed in the world. That is certainly not the will of God either. If you need religion, that is fine, as long as it does not enslave you into being something you are not.

Like a lot of other things, pornography in and of itself is not intrinsically evil. It is the ABUSE of pornography that is evil. If you become addicted to it, to the exclusion of having normal, human relationships then it IS a problem. Otherwise, it is entertainment that you can take or leave. I am not talking about the sickos out there that have decided to use and profit from such things as child pornography which is, and should be, illegal. I am talking about adult entertainment for and by consenting adults.

 

[lonnie1]

Orlandude hit the nail on the head. I absolutely agree with him.

 

[SantaCBear]

I still cannot come to terms with the idea that it's okay to look at pictures of naked men without feeling riddled with guilt before God! And this is not based on what any organized religion says, or what the Pope or Church Pastor or Reverent says. It's based on my own conscience, right or wrong.

It's not that easy... you (anyone) cannot divorce what you've been taught from childhood by "organized religion" and how you 'feel' as an adult today. They are assuredly connected.

Hardest thing in life is to unlearn something...

 

[eywsoon]

I think the Church's stance on pornography being such a grave sin stems from when one "objectifies" the other. This objectification then clouds our ability to respect the other as a creation of the Divine.

But it's funny---when I see a real hottie or hunk (in real life or in the pages of Men magazine or whatever), that's when I thank God for creating such beauty!

In all seriousness, I guess it boils down to the ideal--that pornography not be a substitute for a loving, intimate, caring relationship between 2 people? Orlandude, I really like what you said.

 

[Andreus]

this is from the songs of solomon... if it were written today, some would question its pornographic nature.... and it sparks the question... is the enjoyment of physical beauty inherently bad?

no of course not...

it is not....

5:10 My beloved [is] white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.
5:11 His head [is as] the most fine gold, his locks [are] bushy, [and] black as a raven.
5:12 His eyes [are] as [the eyes] of doves by the rivers of waters, washed with milk, [and] fitly set.
5:13 His cheeks [are] as a bed of spices, [as] sweet flowers: his lips [like] lilies, dropping sweet smelling myrrh.
5:14 His hands [are as] gold rings set with the beryl: his belly [is as] bright ivory overlaid [with] sapphires.
5:15 His legs [are as] pillars of marble, set upon sockets of fine gold: his countenance [is] as Lebanon, excellent as the cedars.
5:16 His mouth [is] most sweet: yea, he [is] altogether lovely. This [is] my beloved, and this [is] my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

 

[Andreus]

I would agree with Andreus and others. It is really up to you. I too was raised a Catholic and the religious stance on pornography is hardly limited to Catholicism. Most christian religions take a very dim view of it, if not total condemnation for the most part. It is viewed as unhealthy, immoral, psychologically damaging, thus, inconsistent with God's will. They all say, or have said, the same thing about masturbation. (Please! I won't even go there.) Religion blames pornography for all the sexual ills of society and, as a group, have made several attempts to censor the internet, in an effort to force their morals on everyone else. Most of those efforts have failed since nobody really owns the internet and there are freedom of speech issues they can't overcome. I am probably not one to comment because I do not believe in organized religion, however, I DO believe in God and I don't believe He cares much about pornography. I have yet to find the word "pornography" in the Bible, just as I have yet to find the words "homosexual" or "gay" in the Bible. All I see are phrases taken out of context and used to "interpret" the way religion wants to see things.

Remember that the root purpose of most religions was and is CONTROL. Even in modern society, religion and religious fantacism is the cause of most of the bloodshed in the world. That is certainly not the will of God either. If you need religion, that is fine, as long as it does not enslave you into being something you are not.

Like a lot of other things, pornography in and of itself is not intrinsically evil. It is the ABUSE of pornography that is evil. If you become addicted to it, to the exclusion of having normal, human relationships then it IS a problem. Otherwise, it is entertainment that you can take or leave. I am not talking about the sickos out there that have decided to use and profit from such things as child pornography which is, and should be, illegal. I am talking about adult entertainment for and by consenting adults.

thanks for such a well thought out and wonderfull post !!!

thats much of what i was thiking as well but didnt have the words for

all blessings

 

[Shepherd 2]

Anglican I am,
I understand the Roman Catholic Cathechism.
It seems a lot of priests don't even abide by this prohibition,
and they took a vow of celibacy in front of a lot of people.
I also understand that birth control is contrary to the teaching,
but in the last survey I saw, 82% of all couples used condoms
and many took birth control pills.

What is the sanction to this rule or belief?
Is it fear of going to hell?
If so, you will have lots of good company.
Andreus is right in the end it is about you.
You are between what some have said and what you think?
What will you do?
I believe you have made up your mind,
my man you are at a pornographic site,
and I am one priest who is too.
Relax and make up your mind.
Shep+

 

[careandrespect]

Thank you for your information. I agree with a lot of what you have said. It is up to me in terms of what I want to do. I also agree 100% with the fact that pornography can never be used as a substitute for a real relationship. For there is nothing that can replace the joy and beauty of that.

I guess for myself pornography mostly the softcore type is a safe way for me to look at the artistic form of the male body. I am also greatful for the fact that I do not use it to help escape reality or spend hours upon hours gazing at the computer screen looking at thousands of pictures.

Again I thank all of you for your time and information.

careandrespect

 

[Shepherd 2]

CareandRespect,
I like that username. It is an interesting choice,
and it has a nice ring and feel to it.

If pornography is a sin, then we must consider that a sin is
basically the "active act of doing something we know and believe is wrong." If that is true, then it is wrong for you.

However, there is a catch twenty-two, sin is not just in our deeds, the things we do, it starts with thoughts and evolves into words usually before it is acted upon.

Let me tell a parable. I once had a circle of doctor friends who loved to gross me out at lunch time with grusome stories of surgeries they say that that had done. It was often very upsetting. One day a new movie in town was a bigger discussion. "Deep Throat" was playing at the down town theatre after the late showing of the regular movies.

Doctors can be curious, and there was a lot of banter and curiosity about what the woman in the movie was doing. The group came to the concensus that they wanted to go. They asked me to go too.
One called me the next day and asked if I was going. I said, "NO."
The answer was shot back, "Well why not? We thought if you went along, if anyone we had as patients saw us, it would be OK." Nice, so a clergyman present says it is OK for everyone else. Ouch!

My response caught them off guard. I said that I had prayed about it and decided that I wan't going. So I asked my friend the doctor if he would pray about it, and he shot back, "My God no, I won't pray about this." I said, maybe you should not go either. By the way none of us went, and I was never told whether it was because I would not go, or that they would not pray about it. Interesting.
Shep+

 

[Kulindahr]

Throw out your god/religion and keep your porn - and your mind and your sanity and your freedom and your life and your destiny. Reject man-made rules created to condemn and oppress you and to keep you in bondage to ancient superstitions and set yourself free from all the restraints and constraints of man-made belief systems.

What part of the catholic faith is that from?

 

[Kulindahr]

I think the Church's stance on pornography being such a grave sin stems from when one "objectifies" the other. This objectification then clouds our ability to respect the other as a creation of the Divine.

But it's funny---when I see a real hottie or hunk (in real life or in the pages of Men magazine or whatever), that's when I thank God for creating such beauty!

In all seriousness, I guess it boils down to the ideal--that pornography not be a substitute for a loving, intimate, caring relationship between 2 people? Orlandude, I really like what you said.

That first paragraph says it all: pornography treats other people as objects, and not merely objects but ones for our pleasure.
Viewing pornography is essentially practice for treating one's fellow (hu)man as merchandise.

Then there's that fine line between soft porn and art. If it makes you thank God for creating such beauty, then to you it's art. If it makes your hand head for your crotch, it's porn. But that means there isn't a fine line -- it's a very stark line, on the one hand being thankful for your fellow man, and on the other looking on him as merchandise.

If you're leading a life of faith, then your body is a temple, right?
And we know what Jesus did with merchandise in the Temple.

 

[careandrespect]

Again, I have to thank you guys for the helpful information. It certainly is an excellent set of ideas to think about. Many of which I never thought of before.

careandrespect

 

[darcey]

Remember that it is easier to change something from within than without. The church (temporal) is very flawed & needs all believers to aid it so that the Church (spiritual) may be revealed in all its splendor to all creation. (does that sound as pompous as I think it might?) Sorry, but I feel the misguided teachings of the "few" can only be corrected if one stays involved & helps others to recognize them. "You catch more flies with sugar than you do with vinegar" - so speak as a friend not an adversary.

 

[jojo84]

So I am a Catholic and a Bi-Curious individual grappling with these same concerns that you have. What I try to focus on is the ultimate goal of my existence as a Catholic, achieving perfect happinness with God in heaven. No one has a straight (no pun intended) path to heaven, and humans are naturally flawed. Christ saved us from our sins because He knew we would have them. I think alot of people, who believe in Christianity, started looking at pornography at a young age when they might have not thought it was a sin or something detracting from your relationship with God. Now that I am older, and sincerely trying to attain a greater relationship with God, I realize that I need to move beyond the superficial pleasure of this world and focus on the earthly pleasures that will ultmatly help me achieve union with God in heaven.

Also, each person struggles with things, and everyone has flaws (I mean even straight married men and women look at porn); I think being able to move beyond it, and find real meaningful loving relationship is the true message the church should be sending, rather then one of condemnation.