Change We Can Believe In (not)

[briankd]

I giggled. :3

But seriously, I wouldn't mind having a solid conversation with Obama without the rhetoric, pretty but ultimately vacuous slogans and sans an audience of supporters. I would like to speak with a politician, not a public speaker. Unfortunately I fear that if we take that all away and only talk about the tangible issues he represents, our conversation would be a relatively short one...

Gotta agree with that one. Call me old fashioned but I like to hear definite plans and correct facts, not cheerleading pep rallies at a time when
we need a strong leader and definite change.

 

[briankd]

To use part of an Obama phrase, I would have to agree with him here. It is ashame that people can't see that and call her mean and pushy and things like that. Well that is what I would want in my president. Someone tough that can get us from point A to point B. People here cry oh she is mean, I say get some balls. I guess they want this country to be a big Disney Land and Obama running around singing. "I love you, you love me."

Okay, this question is for music man..I have not read Obama's book and agree
with you still in what you say, but there is a question I have. It has been reported on cnn and on fox news that in his book he questions his citizenship and loyalty, that he is not sure to what
country he owes allegiance. Is this true? I had originally planned on voting
for Obama but had already changed my
mind due to his very poor voting record and high amount of absences from important votes. (no I do not believe you can have experience if you are not there). But if the citizenship thing is true, then that should tell everyone exactly what they need to know about
the man. Yes he talks about change, but seriously...what kind and do we want that?

 

[noah617]

I would really like to see if Trinity United Church of Christ really accepts gay men and women. Sure, I have read were the United Church of Christ does, and while Trinity may be under that umbrella, they may have different view on it.

What does it take? Time after time people have posted links to their website that reference meetings for same gender loving members of the church. Let's see if this story I found helps any.

It was indeed a historical event and evening at Trinity United Church of Christ on the South Side of Chicago on July 29, 2003. More than 200 individuals came out for the viewing of the documentary Brother Outsider: The Life of Bayard Rustin, and dialogue followed.

There was a room filled with folks from all communities and different belief systems together as individuals and persons with children and grandchildren. Folks wearing proudly the rainbow flag and socializing, were all together for an evening of information and fellowship. It was the the vision of Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr., Senior Pastor along with Rev. Stacey L. Edwards, Associate Pastor/Minister to Singles, to have a “Whosoever church where all are welcome no matter who you are.” The Same Gender-Loving Family part of the Singles Community hosted the event. It was to salute the 40th anniversary of the March on Washington and learn about the accomplishments of one of the many unsung heroes of the Civil Rights Movement.

The March on Washington celebration took place in D.C. Aug. 23, 2003. Rustin was an openly Same Gender-Loving African-American, Quaker background, and was the architect of the 1963 March on Washington where Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., delivered his famous “I Have A Dream” speech (this was not the original title of King’s speech; that title was given to King’s speech by the media).

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=706

 

[Glafna]

How can you argue with that?

And if he's going to stay in office, he will have to talk about the issues he talked about before the election, and elaborate on them.

 

[briankd]

Are you talking about his membership with Trinity? I have read the book, my dad has and he said that there is mention of his faith and believe in Trinty United Church and what it stands for. This is what Trinity says about its church:

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian...

Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent.

We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization.

We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered.

So yes I can see where someone would question where Obama allegiance truly lies.

not sure really, they did not mention religion or faith, just stated that in his book, he questions his citizenship and loyalty to the u.s. was hoping that you
would be able to clarify this point. I probably should have just sent you a message since I am not really sure and
they may have taken something out of
context. But either way it does not change my opinion that he is not right for the presidency at this time. but if it
was true then, to me, he would never be the right man for the job.

 

[Kurn]

How do you know that she didn't copy some of his ideas?

She's had the core of her ideas since before Obama was in high school.

 

[Twisted06]

Pretty surprising for a windsock... What another ridiculous claim.

another ridiculous comment from someone who hates hillary

 

[Centexfarmer]

She's had the core of her ideas since before Obama was in high school.

Well then if that's true, then she's not a Democrat, but rather a Barry Goldwater Conservative.

Hillary Clinton has, herself, claimed that she was/is a Goldwater Girl.

If that's the case, it would put her more inline with Arizona Senator John McCain, than it would Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

And this article from 2001 would suggest that John McCain is more aligned with Hillary Clinton than with Barry Goldwater.

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Why McCain Is a Phony "Goldwater Conservative"[/FONT]

Is anyone confused yet?

Does anyone have change for a dollar?

 

[Kurn]

Since she was a schoolgirl, she has been attentive to the notion of America and how it can be better. At the same time, she was a Methodist when that church was experiencing a great revival in social gospel action. She was fortunate enough to listen to Martin Luther King, Jr. speak at her church. As most people know, she was an undergraduate at Wellesley in the 60's and her Republican loyalties got turned around. In other words, her commitment to progressive government and liberty, key elements in Goldwaterism, came to be articulated through Rooseveltian, Democratic party methods. Rooseveltian, but efficient and effective. What's wrong with that??
A nation of, by and for the people. "Spirit of Lincoln" in a phrase.

 

[Kurn]

^ "Since she was a schoolgirl"? How do you know this?

Families were very attentive to politics back then; her family was no exception to say the least.

 

[Kurn]

Look, ICO7, it's not hard to know what Hillary thinks deep down. I've heard her speak over the years. I am familiar with her cultural background. I am familiar with the political themes that people talk about and which of those themes are important to her. My mom's family is based in Park Ridge, Illinois.
I'm sure Kenny often knows what someone who's Irish and from Brooklyn is talking about with just a few words even if he's never met 'im before. It's nothing mysterious. I'm sure the same thing with you.

Plus there's the 'generation' thing. Although part of Hillary is old school, another part of her is up to date, the future, even, because saying what we'd like to have happen and knowing how to get there are two very different things. I credit Obama with some real moxey. It's just that Hillary has a lot more.

If you want Obama to do well in the future you'd better learn how to deal with your candidate's minor indiscretions.

The truth is, Hillary's "indiscretions" are all framed by informed strategic logic, the intellectual quality that we need in the Oval Office more than ever.
Why do you dislike George Bush? Is it his hairstyle? Or is it something more key to it all like not knowing how to back out of a mistake?? Hillary is nothing like George Bush by a mile.

 

[Twisted06]

I don't constantly bash her. But all you do is bash Obama constantly, so you hate him. And you bash is supporters, specifically me, so you hate them and me. Wow, that wraps that up...

Your peanut-brained peanut gallery routine is long since old, so you'll just have to deal with it as I have with you.

i actually agree with him u do constantly bash her and her supporters. and i know what your gonna say you bash me and other obama supporters.yeah i do but when u make bullshit statements like some of you and the supporters do. when you bitch about something hillary does and then your god aka obama turns around and does the same thing and its apparntly ok then. theres just something wrong with that if you ask me

 

[Backlum-Chaam]

Gotta agree with that one. Call me old fashioned but I like to hear definite plans and correct facts, not cheerleading pep rallies at a time when
we need a strong leader and definite change.

Sounds like both of you are easily distracted.

I would recommend listening more closely to what Obama is actually saying the next time you hear him speak, rather than falling for all the cheerleading and turning off your brain because you think he sounds too "pretty". The pretense that he isn't saying anything is one of the most persistent lies his detractors have pushed. People are really starting to believe it, we hear what we want to hear, flourishes get isolated as soundbytes and emailed all over the internet, and then it snowballs and just might cost him the nomination. It's too bads that Americans have gotten so used to poor communicators that most of us assume communication and action are mutually exclusive.

 

[Kurn]

I don't turn off when I hear Mr. Obama.
Hillary is just the better person to be President right now.

I've heard a lot of inspiring speeches/speakers. Obama is great.
Hillary is better. More president for your tax-dollar.
Better change.
Focused, centered change ---which, incidentally, is not unlike what Mr. O is offering, essentially---is change that doesn't dissipate itself in self-frustration. It is politics that is aligned with natural growth.

It requires knowledge and wisdom at one end, the more the better, and freedom and dignity at the other end.

 

[tmb1]

I don't turn off when I hear Mr. Obama.
Hillary is just the better person to be President right now.

I've heard a lot of inspiring speeches/speakers. Obama is great.
Hillary is better. More president for your tax-dollar.
Better change.
Focused, centered change ---which, incidentally, is not unlike what Mr. O is offering, essentially---is change that doesn't dissipate itself in self-frustration. It is politics that is aligned with natural growth.

It requires knowledge and wisdom at one end, the more the better, and freedom and dignity at the other end.

How is it CHANGE when she is running her camaign like Karl Rove is her campaign manager? Give me a break!

 

[Kurn]

How is Obama, or at least his campaign staff, NOT doing the same as you want to allege Clinton to be doing?
You think Hillary is playing the Rove game when that's what people around you and in the medias are saying, I guess.