Cheating men...and the men who love them

[TX-Beau]

It seems through my observation in the gay community, Gay men don't care about having sex with married men one bit..or men who are in a committed relationship. Why is this?

Are you kidding? Hang out in here some more. I wouldn't touch a guy committed elsewhere no matter how much he wanted it. Which is only partially about morals. It's just stupid to walk into that kind of drama.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yes SOME gay men don't have any morals, and SOME straight men don't either, and SOME women are complete home-wreckers. People who cheat do it for a whole lot of different reasons, none of which is that gay men are intrinsically morally deficient.

YOUR point was that you found that the GAY COMMUNITY (no mitigators or qualifiers) to be a bunch of men who "don't care about having sex with married men one bit..or men who are in a committed relationship."

MY point was that this is ridiculous, and if the people you hang out with are like that, that really only speaks to your choice of friends.

 

[hylas]

obviously i cant speak for all gay men. but personally, if i just want to get laid, i dont care wether the other guy is married, in a relationship, or whatever. of course i would never sleep with a friends man, and im never gonna get serious with somebody who cheats on his spouse. but just for fun with some stranger, why not? quite frankly i dont get why you would be angry about "The whores that sleep with married men". its like blaming somebody for taking something that is just lying around on the street, calling him a thief. i guess you could argue that they should say no out of some moral obligation towards some complete stranger who youve never even met. but come on, they are not the ones who are cheating. its the married guys intentions that are traitorous, not the his (or the other guys) actions.

 

[TX-Beau]

And the guy who drove the getaway car didn't rob the bank. Strange that he went to prison with the rest of them.

Accessory after the fact. You don't have to walk away, but don't pretend that you're not participating in the cheating.

 

[rareboy]

Yes SOME gay men don't have any morals, and SOME straight men don't either, and SOME women are complete home-wreckers. People who cheat do it for a whole lot of different reasons, none of which is that gay men are intrinsically morally deficient.

YOUR point was that you found that the GAY COMMUNITY (no mitigators or qualifiers) to be a bunch of men who "don't care about having sex with married men one bit..or men who are in a committed relationship."

MY point was that this is ridiculous, and if the people you hang out with are like that, that really only speaks to your choice of friends.

I have to agree that i found your hypothesis to be fundamentally unsound.

Hopefully you are not preparing a graduate thesis.

...and relax dude. We're sorry you got fucked over, but don't assume that all guys are lying sacks of shit.

 

[hylas]

tx, justlove, i disagree. (which is somewhat novel, cuz i usually agree with tx)
let me make an example.

lets say andy and lulu are married, and they are supposed to be monogamous. now, one night, andy is lurking around in a bar and hes hitting on tory. at this moment, he has already betrayed lulu, by deciding to break his promis of monogamy. no matter wether tory goes for it or not, no matter wether lulu ever finds out about any of it... the betrayal has already taken place.

because love is about trust, not about sex. thats why open relationships work, as long as the trust is there. thats why relationships are in trouble as soon as somebody decides to cheat, wether they end up actually cheating or not.

so yeah, maybe tory decides she doesnt want anything to do with andy, because hes onbviously a jerk, or because she feels some moral obligation towards lulu. or she decides she couldnt care less and sleeps with him for whatever reason. no matter what tory decides, lulu is married to a jerk and her marriage is in big trouble. tory doesnt destroy anybodys life... andy and lulus life are already destroyed.

 

[TX-Beau]

Uhhh never that...I don't hang with gay guys....and I don't go into gay clubs, gay bars etc so idk where your sad perception came from...speak what you know like i've said so many times before don't ASSume k?

Well, if you're not out in the gay community, you're not hanging around with gay men, I'm at a loss to see where your sad perception came from.

Perhaps I'm, not the one doing the assuming. So far as I can see, someone cheated on you, therefore all gay men are cheaters.

So what are you really wanting to talk about? The ethics of cheating? Your cheating boyfriend and the hurt he caused you? Just trying to get some attention?

'Cause I gotta say, your original position is pure assumption. Even if you did hang out with gay men - which you've kindly informed us you never do.

 

[TX-Beau]

tx, justlove, i disagree. let me make an example.

lets say andy and lulu are married, and they are supposed to be monogamous. now, one night, andy is lurking around in a bar and hes hitting on tory. at this moment, he has already betrayed lulu, by deciding to break his promis of monogamy. no matter wether tory goes for it or not, no matter wether lulu ever finds out about any of it... the betrayal has already taken place.

because love is about trust, not about sex. thats why open relationships work, as long as the trust is there. thats why relationships are in trouble as soon as somebody wants to cheat, wether they end up actually cheating or not.

so yeah, maybe tory decides she doesnt want anything to do with andy, because hes onbviously a jerk, or because she feels some moral obligation towards lulu. or she decides she couldnt care less and sleeps with him for whatever reason. no matter what tory decides, lulu is married to a jerk and her marriage is in big trouble. tory doesnt destroy anybodys life... andy and lulus life are already destroyed.

Which pretty much says nothing about the kind of person who would use such a situation to get off.

You want to cheat, go ahead, but it's pretty selfish to contribute to their bad situation because of your cock.

It comes down to what kind of person you are. Myself, cheaters have way too much drama, they have way to much baggage, and I would never want someone to do that to me, so I'm not going to do it to someone else. Because I can see her there, sitting in her bad situation, and that's not a turn on.

But hey, yeah, if someone is injured, why not shoot them in the head, they were dying anyway.

 

[hylas]

uh yeah, i tend to not care too much about some random stranger ive never even met. no apologies or explanations there. find a piece of jewlery i like on the street? im not the kind of guy who drops it off at the police station. especially if that piece of jewlery actively asks to be taken home by me, so to speak.

but i would never do anything i didnt want done to me. i would never cheat on my spouse, because i love him and i wouldnt want him to cheat on me, either. if he ever cheated on me, i would be hurt and angry at him, not at whoever he was cheating with. (all of which is a little hypothetical, given that im currently single ^^)

 

[TX-Beau]

I hear what you’re saying, and really, I’m not simply making a moral distinction. I’m also making a practical one.

You never know what the situation is with a cheater, because they’re lying to you just as much as they’re lying to the wife.

I’ve been there, hell we’ve probably all been there, and I can’t stop thinking about her. Because I know what that would do to me. No matter what he says, no matter what justifications he uses, no matter how much he calls her a bitch, I can’t get her out of my head. That’s what happens in my mind – and that pretty much kills any lust I had for him in the first place. Because I also know what he’s doing to her – and that is so not a turn on either. I don’t find dishonest, disloyal men attractive at all.

He’s just going to go off and cheat with someone else sure, but at least I know I had no part in it.

 

[hylas]

I can’t get her out of my head. That’s what happens in my mind – and that pretty much kills any lust I had for him in the first place.

i actually totally get that. as soon as i meet his spouse, as soon as i can put a face on that person, i lose interest. not because i think its morally wrong, but because its a turn-off for me.

what i do in practice is not even ask wether they are in a relationship or not. i just assume that if they are on the prowl, its fair game.

 

[hylas]

so if your b/f cheated on you and the whore he cheated with KNEW you two were in a relationship how would you feel then? You would have no right to get pissed cause the same thing that whore did to you is the same thing you are doing to other men and women...

thats what i just said, right? i knew that any anger i might feel towards her was misplaced. id have my beef with my (soon-to-be-ex)boyfriend, not with her.

So when these women find out that their husbands slept with you and their life is ruined how will that make you feel?

as i was trying to point out, their lifes arent "ruined" because they found out about us, or even because we slept together, but because of their husbands decision.

(...) shows who you are as a person.

yes yes, what i say shows who i am as a person. im perfectly happy with who i am as a person.

(...) You have no morals, and no standards basically. (...) ...and a downright ho. (...) if your a whore (...)

... but lets tone down the crazy, shall we?

 

[rareboy]

Really here we go with the ASSumptions...where have i stated ALL MEN ARE CHEATERS? please quote it for me no not all men are cheaters, some are good men who are monogamous and some are not.

No. What you actually wrote was

Gay men don't care about having sex with married men one bit..or men who are in a committed relationship. Why is this?

This implies that all gay guys are so amoral or desperate for sex that they have no problem abetting the closet cases who are cheating on their wives or the homos cheating on their partners.

That is the absurd 'ASSumption'.

If the cheaters lie to their prey, then watcha going to do?
The homo who's hooked up with a cheater is being cheated too.

But not every gay guy is going to want to fuck around with someone in a relationship if they know that it is based on such shabby foundations.

 

[Reality101]

So why do you do it? The whores that sleep with married men and men in a relationship why don't you find a single man?...and to the married men why would you hurt your wife like that? makes no sense.

Why do people in relationships cheat? Selfishness for one. They may love their wife/husband but want sexual gratification elsewhere. Also there is the fact that it is wrong (that can be a turn on). The thrill of getting caught. The desire to be with someone new. The desire to experiment. The desire to fuck someone as opposed to make sweet sweet love like your wife wants all the time. There are tons of reasons why people cheat. Some people have so many reasons that the simple fact that it's wrong can be smoothed over by the validity of their "needs". They can justify their actions and quiet their self conscious. They aren't bad people, but they are very very wrong in their thinking. And deeply selfish. If they can live with that then that is on them. I sure couldn't.

Also the "whores that sleep with married men and men in relationships" do so for the same reasons listed above. Also there is love, attraction, curiosity etc. Some like being the other woman/man. They enjoy the secrecy and double life of their partner. There are a wide array of reasons. It all comes down to selfishness if you ask me though. They just don't care enough about the people they may be hurting through their actions. And they may think their actions are valid because of what they have been told about the other person.

I've been cheated on before too. I didn't give a rats ass about the guy she was fooling around with. Why would I? I don't care about him. However, he isn't excused from being a douchebag in the whole thing, but my focus was not screaming at him for touching my gf (now ex of course). My gf should have never let it happen. That was my thinking anyway

And the guy who drove the getaway car didn't rob the bank. Strange that he went to prison with the rest of them.

Accessory after the fact. You don't have to walk away, but don't pretend that you're not participating in the cheating.

That's a great analogy. It's as simple as that really.

i actually totally get that. as soon as i meet his spouse, as soon as i can put a face on that person, i lose interest. not because i think its morally wrong, but because its a turn-off for me.

what i do in practice is not even ask wether they are in a relationship or not. i just assume that if they are on the prowl, its fair game.

So as long as you don't see or know the spouse of the person you are cheating with then it's all good? Out of sight out of mind? Well... I can see how this makes it easier, but it doesn't make it right. You have morals clearly, but they seem to be a bit flawed and crutched by the saying "ignorance is bliss".

 

[hylas]

justlove, we are both talking about the same situation. and i am telling you, i wouldnt be mad at that other guy. why would i? he didnt betray me. to break a promise, you first have to make one, and that other guy never made any promises to me. i would be mad at my husband, not for having sex with that other guy, but for breaking the promise he made to me.

 

[G-Lexington]

Nothing is more appealing to employers than employment. You're much more likely to be offered a job when you HAVE a job than you are when you're unemployed.

Similarly, I get hit on a lot more when I'm in a relationship than when I'm not. I don't know if that's because being in one proves I'm somehow not toxic, or perhaps being in one helps makes me a more attractive person in less-than-obvious ways. But the offers certainly come more often when I'm in a relationship.

Mind you, I say "no". But that's me.

Lex

 

[Nomenclature]

I can't even count how many straight women i've known over the years who've been dating married men. Not just having sex with them, but being with this man, getting engaged and then waiting. . .and waiting. . .and waiting. . .for that man to magically leave his wife and kids just to be with them. Somehow, they're always shocked to learn that the man would rather stay with his family than lose everything. My family was broken up by my father's infidelity, too.

I'm glad you've brought this point up, though Justlove856. . .and i'm really sorry you got cheated on.

 

[rareboy]

No one can deny it isn't a turn on to seduce a straight guy...Do you know how many porn titles i've seen with the word Married straight man?....amateur and professional? So its so much of a "turn on" to get these straight guys that its even in porn...with married men or men who have GF's.

So it should follow that all gay guys are into fisting, felching, piss play, emo twinks, tattooed bears, extreme piercing, etc. etc. given the number of porn sites out there?

I can deny that it isn't a turn on to seduce a straight guy. I can't be bothered when the gay guys are so much hotter and interesting in bed.

Suggestion for you.

Don't create your world view based on porn sites and the fact you got hurt once.

 

[tallguy297]

Guys, please be careful a little here.

This thread is lurching from sweeping generalizations to directed personal insults and some of both are not only a little over the top they are also borderline.




On a lighter note...

Justlove, my personal thoughts are simply this.

Spend more time in the gay community - but the gay community thats not at bars, clubs and pubs. Sadly it seems you've picked up a very stereotypical view of what it is to be gay, and one that the mainstream media and the pron companies continue to push.

I can assure you for every guy who sleeps around, no questions asked, for every cheater and every morally bereft gay guy theres 10 hiding away in the suburbs either partnered or wanting to be... just like the straight community.

We are no different to anyone else, its just that we are a smaller yet more concentrated community, so our flaws tend to stand out more.

But to argue that as a general rule across the broad spectrum of the gay population would be way off the mark.

 

[tallguy297]

Mate, I agree completely with your stance, that those who cheat or sleep around knowingly invading anothers relationship lower themselves. Yes I get that theres responsibility on a personal level by all parties, but it speaks volumes of the character of those who knowingly act on the invitations from partnered people.

But... I want to highlight a few lines from your posts...

Anyways. I have noticed that NEVER once have i ever heard, or seen anyone say that its wrong. I always hear oh i know so many men who do it, blah blah blah...

Please reread my post... this says so much about either the company you keep or your lack of exposure to a very very large segment of the gay community. I would suggest that if you polled even this site the vast majority would say thats its wrong.

And this is not about the straight community because in the straight community we know its wrong, and if people do it they hide it. But in the gay community men don't hide it, the ones doing it don't care (as we have seen from that poster) and don't care about the person they are hurting.

Yes, I see that you are bi. So I'm guessing that you look at the gay community as something you dont belong too. I'm guessing when it comes to "community" you see yourself as straight. That you belong to the community with the better values, the better morals and the better standards of people generally.

Justlove, not only is your view distorted sadly it seems its one you've created to sate your own need to justify how you life your life and the choices you've made. And thats fine. You do what ever it you need to do to be happy and have happiness in your life... thats really critical.

But you need to be very careful in the way you generalise. More over its even more important you learn to stop dividing those around you and judging them differently. I havent seen you once say that the str8 cheaters are as bad. In fact you defend the str8 community here.

Yes, gay men can cheat and whore around. Yes some are morally bereft. And yes some enjoy the fact, you're right. And you know something, bi men do it too. So do str8 men... and women.

As a bi man you face issues that straddle both camps, and thats an unfair burden for sure... but if you persist in these double standards you are going to end up stuck between 2 perceived worlds, when in reality, the rest of us see only one.