On Topic Discussion Chipotle has to ask customers to no bring guns into stores.

[MakeDigitalLove]

I'm not "ignoring what people actually have a problem with", I'm not giving the irrational fears the dignity of a response.

But it isn't irrational.

 

[Kulindahr]

I agree. There are a lot of kids (and adults) who are terrified of going to school or work now because of the gun violence...and their fear is very real. If I was a parent I might be tempted to home school because of this myself. The thought of any child being massacred is too much for me to absorb. The fact that this doesn't occur to someone bringing a gun into a restaurant is the height of arrogance.

I had a series of very large wall size WW2 propaganda posters from the United States that had great graphics..and were worth a lot of money...they had captions like "KILL THE JAPS"...everything was red and black on white which made the graphics and captions and text "pop" and immediately capture your attention. They are part of history and it is what it is....and they were cool posters....I only had room to hang up two of them but I had more..

...and then one day I noticed two young Japanese boys hugging their father and looking at the sign very upset and it took me a minute to figure out what was happening but when I did...I was so sorry I had hung them up. It never occurred to me that they would scare a kid and THAT is not acceptable to me...so I took them down immediately. No one had to tell me to do it...

I wanted to apologize to the father but I decided to let him explain...I think he knew I felt bad about it.....

But rather than propose training and education, the anti-gun crowd propose to cater to irrational fears. The way to deal with irrational fears is to confront them, so responsible public figures would be pointing out that 99.99% of gun owners never harm anyone with their weapons.

It was quite accurate when an author called us a "nation of cowards".

 

[Kulindahr]

Surely it is just as arrogant to want everyone else to bend to your 'right' to carry an offensive weapon.
After all, you have, presumably, had no formal training on its use, nor have you had a psychological assessment of your suitability to possess it.
I understand that any cow poke, redneck or retard has the right to bear arms in the US.
Over here in the UK we legislate against anyone carrying a knife and yet we still have far too many murders caused by them being drawn in anger. I dread to think how much worse it would be if every Tom, Dick and Harry were leaglly allowed to carry firearms

It is never arrogant to expect others to accede to one's rights -- arrogance lies in wanting others to abandon a right.

Here in Oregon there are towns where it's estimated that more than one in ten adults is carrying a gun at any given time -- and those aren't the places where there's gun crime.

BTW, yes, I have met both of your qualifications.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

But rather than propose training and education, the anti-gun crowd propose to cater to irrational fears. The way to deal with irrational fears is to confront them, so responsible public figures would be pointing out that 99.99% of gun owners never harm anyone with their weapons.

It was quite accurate when an author called us a "nation of cowards".

So my high gun violence bit is a myth, but you're claiming 99.99% of gun owners never harm anymore? Really?

Again, really?

 

[Kulindahr]

This makes me think about how angry people get in shops like these over orders being wrong, rude employees, or just being angry over something minimal. How much that escalation can change when one person is carrying a gun.

That's why Congress should get off its ass and update the militia laws. People with anger issues arguably do not qualify as "well-regulated militia", because that's a concept that involves personal responsibility and self-control, strict self-discipline and training.

I would have no objection if Congress reaffirmed that we're all the militia, and to require that if you're going to own a firearm, you have to report for a half day of training monthly. I'm not sure there are at the moment enough NRA and/or law enforcement trainers in the country, but that could be corrected.

BTW, I've been in situations where people were beginning to get violent -- until they noticed I had a gun, at which point everyone got nice and polite. They say that an armed society is a polite society for a reason.

 

[Kulindahr]

It isn't necessarily a bad idea...but that is not something I would run from and that is another subject...and it is part of their job. The ones who went into schools and post offices and other places and blew away lots of people...carrying a weapon was not part of their job

In almost every instance, you'll find that the people who went in and blew people away went where they did because it was a guaranteed gun-free zone. As a kid in the Bronx said after one school shooting (I paraphrase), "It would never happen here, because a lot of the kids carry" -- in other words, a shooter would know he's not going to get any glory because someone else will stop him very quickly.

The places I, and most of the people I know, feel nervous is where you're not allowed to be armed -- because those are the places shooters are going to pick to do their slaughter.

 

[Kulindahr]

But it isn't irrational.

Of course it's irrational -- 99.99% of gun owners never hurt anyone at all. And every day, millions of Americans carry guns in public and never hurt anyone -- in fact, it's arguable that you're no more likely to be hurt by a concealed carry license/permit holder than to be struck by lightning.

 

[The Fly]

So you run from cops. That's probably a good idea.

Cops are trained in the use of weapons and deadly force.............the people you support more often than not, are a bunch dimwitted goobers with a Rambo complex.

What is your background with regard to professional training in weapons and deadly force? Have you served in the millitary, in a combat MOS? Have you taken (and passed) any weapon certification courses?

As to Wayne LaPierre....he's no different than any of the other gun rights advocates, other than he has a larger soapbox. Why is it so often the case that NRA, GOA, GOP, and right wing militia groups have over-lapping interests?

 

[Kulindahr]

So my high gun violence bit is a myth, but you're claiming 99.99% of gun owners never harm anymore? Really?

Again, really?

Yes. It comes from the same figures.

Some 118 million households in the US are reported as having guns (JustFacts/gun control). That's probably 200 million owners. So maybe it's 99.95 -- but the point is that if you meet a gun owner, rationally you should realize you are in fact quite safe.

 

[Kulindahr]

Cops are trained in the use of weapons and deadly force.............the people you support more often than not, are a bunch dimwitted goobers with a Rambo complex.

What is your background with regard to professional training in weapons and deadly force? Have you served in the millitary, in a combat MOS? Have you taken (and passed) any weapon certification courses?

As to Wayne LaPierre....he's no different than any of the other gun rights advocates, other than he has a larger soapbox. Why is it so often the case that NRA, GOA, GOP, and right wing militia groups have over-lapping interests?

Really?

Pastors, attorneys, judges, firemen, bank tellers, insurance agents, musicians, jewelers, electricians, artists . . . all those people are "a bunch dimwitted goobers with a Rambo complex"? Those are the people I know with firearms.

Characterizing a very large portion of your fellow citizens that way shows a serious degree of paranoia -- enough to require professional help.

 

[The Fly]

Really?

Pastors, attorneys, judges, firemen, bank tellers, insurance agents, musicians, jewelers, electricians, artists . . . all those people are "a bunch dimwitted goobers with a Rambo complex"? Those are the people I know with firearms.

Characterizing a very large portion of your fellow citizens that way shows a serious degree of paranoia -- enough to require professional help.

It's not paranoia, just observation, the paranoiacs are the people who believe they need their guns for protection from...........?. And I'll bet the people you describe are not hanging out at Chipotle with an AK-47. Quit dodging.

And you failed to answer the rest of the post..........what professional firearms training have you had? Why are "second amendment defenders" always in cahoots with right wing loons?

 

[Kulindahr]

It's not paranoia, just observation, the paranoiacs are the people who believe they need their guns for protection from...........?. And I'll bet the people you describe are not hanging out at Chipotle with an AK-47. Quit dodging.

So I'm a paranoiac -- because I've used my gun for defense of self and others.

And you failed to answer the rest of the post..........what professional firearms training have you had? Why are "second amendment defenders" always in cahoots with right wing loons?

I've had training from a umber of sources, from NRA to law enforcement, including former special forces and sharpshooters.

And they're "always in cahoots" only in your imagination, and in Wayne La Pierre's money-making PR program.

 

[ibill1]

But you are talking about rights -- you want people to be restricted in exercising one that bothers you.

The majority of people who walk into a restaurant are carrying things that can kill people. Do you get upset about belts? pocket knives?

The only reason that visions of school shootings will come into people's minds is that they have been sold a lie. What they should think of is that today, a hundred million gun owners in the country didn't harm a soul -- and that the same was true the day before that, and every day before that.

Unless you're a criminal, you're more likely to be struck by a car than harmed by a firearm.

Are you actually reading what I am writing? Nowhere in any post have I said people should be restricted of anything. I am saying people should have common since and respect for the feelings of other, thats all. I'll try once again, it is not about me, it actually doesn't bother me. But a guy walking into any restaurant with a rifle in total view of everyone inside is an act of an idiot, plain and simple. Of course he has that right, and I want him to have that right. Like the old adage, just because you can doesn't mean you should. We have to live among other people. Your comment about Dr. lawyers etc. carrying guns is true. How many of these type of individuals would walk into an establishment with a rifle in full view? I'm going to say probably none. They are not idiots and have respect how it might affect others and are smart enough to know because they would choose not to do so does not affect their rights in any way.

Let me compare it to something. I never, in many years, ever kissed my husband, passionately, in public. I don't do PDA because I know it would probably make others uncomfortable. Does it make me uncomfortable, no, not in the least. Do people, gay and straight, have the right to do it, of course they do. Again, just because you can doesn't automatically mean you should.

 

[smokeshadow]

I've always been torn on this issue. I recognize the reasons and philosophies behind the 2nd amendment, but also realize that a person's irrational fear does have an impact on the issue. I have handled firearms in the past, if a 22 counts as a firearm but the only "weapons" I keep around the house are a couple of antique, Civil War era Naval dress swords.

I remember something my late uncle once said to me. He was a retired FBI agent (and was one of the investigators on the Patty Hearst kidnapping). I had ask him if he ever was afraid of a bad guy carrying a gun (I must have been about 12 or so). He replied that he rarely got concerned when a criminal had a gun because he (meaning my uncle) had a pretty good idea what the other guy was going to do with that gun. What concerned him more, was the innocent civilian who tried to help out. My uncle said he got afraid of the civilian because one never knew how well trained the civilian was or how often he or she had handled his or her weapon or exactly what emotional state the civilian was in at the time.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

My uncle said he got afraid of the civilian because one never knew how well trained the civilian was or how often he or she had handled his or her weapon or exactly what emotional state the civilian was in at the time.

And this is why I have the problem with the people in the OP.

Some 118 million households in the US are reported as having guns (JustFacts/gun control). That's probably 200 million owners. So maybe it's 99.95 -- but the point is that if you meet a gun owner, rationally you should realize you are in fact quite safe.

The last time I talked with a gun owner, initially I didn't know he was carrying. But the topic of guns came up, me and a friends g/f mentioned we didn't like guns and he pulled out his gun and put it on the table. That made me uncomfortable for more than just the fact that a gun was on the table, is that he felt the need to pull it out and boast to prove a point.

I don't feel safe around gun owners because I don't randomly trust strangers just because they have a life threatening weapon on them. I don't know them, their intentions, how well trained they are, if at all and so on and so forth. I have family members that I don't even trust, I don't know how I am supposed to trust someone with something I don't like.

 

[cgymike]

Federal law trumps a cheesy burro outlet. You can bring a gun into Chipotle. Now, watch someone will do it or shoot up the place. Americans like their guns and the most fanatic don't like to be told where they can't bring one.

Obviously, a court house is different an prohibiting guns there is obvious.

Chipotle must have a lame legal department.

 

[smokeshadow]

As someone once said. . .never trust a gun unless you know it's unloaded. And, the only way to know that is if you have personally unloaded it yourself

 

[The Fly]

Federal law trumps a cheesy burro outlet. You can bring a gun into Chipotle. Now, watch someone will do it or shoot up the place. Americans like their guns and the most fanatic don't like to be told where they can't bring one.

Obviously, a court house is different an prohibiting guns there is obvious.

Chipotle must have a lame legal department.

Wrong. The property owner has the final say in whether or not firearms are allowed on the property. Minnesota is a concealed carry state, and any business can (and most do) prohibit firearms on premises.

The only exception to this is rental property, where the renter is assumed to have the right to protect the property under his/her contractual control.

 

[The Fly]

I've had training from a umber of sources, from NRA to law enforcement, including former special forces and sharpshooters.

And they're "always in cahoots" only in your imagination, and in Wayne La Pierre's money-making PR program.

So, no formal training? Former so-and-so is the same level of training George Zimmerman had.........that worked out great didn't it. And the NRA.......well there's a truly safety conscious organisation. Even you know they're fearmongering, money grubbing weasels.

You need more training than this for a drivers license.........and Buicks don't have high capacity magazines.

Did you see the recent Cliven Bundy saga? Did you happen to notice the decals on vehicles, as well as emblems and patches on the wackos supporting this racist? NRA, GOA, (Like your Avi) and all manner of Militia groups. Their web of support is not in my mind, they have it prominently on display.

 

[Kulindahr]

Are you actually reading what I am writing? Nowhere in any post have I said people should be restricted of anything. I am saying people should have common since and respect for the feelings of other, thats all. I'll try once again, it is not about me, it actually doesn't bother me. But a guy walking into any restaurant with a rifle in total view of everyone inside is an act of an idiot, plain and simple. Of course he has that right, and I want him to have that right. Like the old adage, just because you can doesn't mean you should. We have to live among other people. Your comment about Dr. lawyers etc. carrying guns is true. How many of these type of individuals would walk into an establishment with a rifle in full view? I'm going to say probably none. They are not idiots and have respect how it might affect others and are smart enough to know because they would choose not to do so does not affect their rights in any way.

Let me compare it to something. I never, in many years, ever kissed my husband, passionately, in public. I don't do PDA because I know it would probably make others uncomfortable. Does it make me uncomfortable, no, not in the least. Do people, gay and straight, have the right to do it, of course they do. Again, just because you can doesn't automatically mean you should.

Someone needs to do it from time to time, just to remind others that it is indeed a right. Yes, we have to live among other people, but I don't see where that means constantly catering to those too immature to respect others just exercising their rights.