On Topic Discussion Chipotle has to ask customers to no bring guns into stores.

[johaninsc]

dressed for dinner...

 

[Kulindahr]

I've always been torn on this issue. I recognize the reasons and philosophies behind the 2nd amendment, but also realize that a person's irrational fear does have an impact on the issue. I have handled firearms in the past, if a 22 counts as a firearm but the only "weapons" I keep around the house are a couple of antique, Civil War era Naval dress swords.

.22 caliber weapons kill a lot of people, so they're definitely firearms.

I envy you those swords! I've always wanted an old cavalry sword, but they're just too spendy.

The farthest one should go catering to the irrational fears would be to contact the restaurant ahead of time so they can post a notice. That way people could decide whether they want to be there that day.

I remember something my late uncle once said to me. He was a retired FBI agent (and was one of the investigators on the Patty Hearst kidnapping). I had ask him if he ever was afraid of a bad guy carrying a gun (I must have been about 12 or so). He replied that he rarely got concerned when a criminal had a gun because he (meaning my uncle) had a pretty good idea what the other guy was going to do with that gun. What concerned him more, was the innocent civilian who tried to help out. My uncle said he got afraid of the civilian because one never knew how well trained the civilian was or how often he or she had handled his or her weapon or exactly what emotional state the civilian was in at the time.

In my training we were taught that if at all possible, contact an officer on the scene, inform him/her you're an armed citizen, and ask how to help. I met a guy who did that, and the cop asked, "You know what covering fire is?" The guy said yes, and the cop pointed out where there was a bad guy shooting at the cops, said "Cover me", and moved in. Thanks to the covering fire, all the shooting ended sooner than expected.

But sometimes you can't, at which point the rule was "Think it through before you do anything". That's probably where most armed civilians fail -- and where they shouldn't; the problem IMO is that Congress has neglected its duty to provide for the discipline of the militia, so we have people running around who are loose cannons.

 

[Kulindahr]

Federal law trumps a cheesy burro outlet. You can bring a gun into Chipotle. Now, watch someone will do it or shoot up the place. Americans like their guns and the most fanatic don't like to be told where they can't bring one.

Obviously, a court house is different an prohibiting guns there is obvious.

Chipotle must have a lame legal department.

Actually, they can ban open carry so long as they allow concealed. I forget the court case which decided that, but that's where the situation stands. Under most state concealed carry laws, they can't ban concealed anyway, so they're up against a double whammy, state and federal.

OTOH, some state laws don't let businesses ban either open or concealed.

 

[Kulindahr]

So, no formal training? Former so-and-so is the same level of training George Zimmerman had.........that worked out great didn't it. And the NRA.......well there's a truly safety conscious organisation. Even you know they're fearmongering, money grubbing weasels.

You need more training than this for a drivers license.........and Buicks don't have high capacity magazines.

The NRA provides a great deal of the training for law enforcement in this country. They are recognized by most state governments as the most solid source for training. So it is indeed formal training. And the NRA is the world's largest firearms safety organization, with awards for its programs from very impartial groups.

As for a driver's license, you don't need any training at all -- you just have to pass a couple of tests.


edit: WRT my avatar, I want our Pink Pistols group to drop in on the local GOA group -- especially now that a couple of them may be getting married thanks to judge McShane.

 

[cgymike]

Wrong. The property owner has the final say in whether or not firearms are allowed on the property. Minnesota is a concealed carry state, and any business can (and most do) prohibit firearms on premises.

The only exception to this is rental property, where the renter is assumed to have the right to protect the property under his/her contractual control.

Varies according to jurisdiction.

 

[The Fly]

The NRA provides a great deal of the training for law enforcement in this country. They are recognized by most state governments as the most solid source for training. So it is indeed formal training. And the NRA is the world's largest firearms safety organization, with awards for its programs from very impartial groups.

As for a driver's license, you don't need any training at all -- you just have to pass a couple of tests.


edit: WRT my avatar, I want our Pink Pistols group to drop in on the local GOA group -- especially now that a couple of them may be getting married thanks to judge McShane.

The same NRA you hold in such low regard? How does that work?

 

[The Fly]

Actually, they can ban open carry so long as they allow concealed. I forget the court case which decided that, but that's where the situation stands. Under most state concealed carry laws, they can't ban concealed anyway, so they're up against a double whammy, state and federal.

OTOH, some state laws don't let businesses ban either open or concealed.

Show me the statute that says a "Private business" must allow the general public to carry firearms? I own a "Private Business" I have posted at every building entrance, as well as the parking lot entrance, XYZ Bans firearms from this premises". Do you actually believe your gun rights supersede my property rights?

 

[Kulindahr]

The same NRA you hold in such low regard? How does that work?

What????

 

[The Fly]

And of the connective web between the "second amendment defenders" and the gun nuts?

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Someone needs to do it from time to time, just to remind others that it is indeed a right. Yes, we have to live among other people, but I don't see where that means constantly catering to those too immature to respect others just exercising their rights.

And it can be said that gun owners are immature and so selfish that they don't think of why guns might bother people. You don't sit there and consider that maybe one of the people around you might have went through something that cause that fear. It is immature of you to not consider the people around you and why they feel the way they do.

And a fear that is not irrational considering it is designed to harm.

 

[The Fly]

Is this the "Gun Owners of America" you're a member of?





http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/Larry-PrattIs

 

[Kulindahr]

Show me the statute that says a "Private business" must allow the general public to carry firearms? I own a "Private Business" I have posted at every building entrance, as well as the parking lot entrance, XYZ Bans firearms from this premises". Do you actually believe your gun rights supersede my property rights?

Some, possibly many of the states with right-to-carry laws list the only places guns aren't allowed (some state cut their list to "most government buildings" recently).

And yes, the right to keep and bear arms supersedes rights of property: the former is inherent, and the latter quite artificial.

 

[Kulindahr]

Is this the "Gun Owners of America" you're a member of?

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/Larry-PrattIs

That gets me a "Page not found".

 

[Kulindahr]

And it can be said that gun owners are immature and so selfish that they don't think of why guns might bother people. You don't sit there and consider that maybe one of the people around you might have went through something that cause that fear. It is immature of you to not consider the people around you and why they feel the way they do.

And a fear that is not irrational considering it is designed to harm.

If seeing someone exercising a right bothers people, those people need some correction. Arguing that because some behavior might cause someone fear is ludicrous, unless you want to list almost anything at all, because fear is hardly limited to guns.

Do you put the same restriction on free speech, too -- recommend to people to suppress their thoughts lest it tromp on someone fear?

 

[The Fly]

That gets me a "Page not found".

this Gun owners of America? Led by Larry Pratt, associated with all sorts of hate groups? Such as Pete Peters of the Christian Identity Movement.........homophobic, racist, neo-nazi.

http://gunowners.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Pratt

 

[The Fly]

Some, possibly many of the states with right-to-carry laws list the only places guns aren't allowed (some state cut their list to "most government buildings" recently).

And yes, the right to keep and bear arms supersedes rights of property: the former is inherent, and the latter quite artificial.

Hog wash. No law anywhere gives one private citizen the right to carry a firearm on another private citizens property against the owners wishes.

 

[JayHawk]

Any fucking moron who walks into a Chipotle carry a semi automatic rifle should be shot - in the nuts. Complete and utter morons. Hopefully this will be the first of many, many more businesses actually standing up to psychotics so enamored with a rifle that they think it trumps humanity.

 

[dpnice]

It is a long time since we have had a Kulindahr 'guns' thread. The one thing I have learnt is that it is impossible to change his position on the right to carry arms. Sometimes his arguments are extremely logical and sometimes he twists peoples' words a little to support his ideas.

But all in all they are always interesting threads to read

 

[lambdaboy]

What a sick country. More Americans have been killed by guns in the states then soldiers in every war they have ever fought from teh Revolutionary war up to and including Afghan. Sick! In the late 90's there was a terrible shooting in a school in Scotland. Months after that all hand guns were banned for ever in the UK. Some may not know it but Andy Murray was one of the students in the school when it happened.

 

[cgymike]

But the real question is why would you need a gun in a chipotle? It's an assembly line burro place....I can't see any reason to shoot up the place.

I guess if you think it's expensive you could order a freebie at gunpoint?