civil unions...????

[theFallenGod]

This is a question for everyone but mainly aimed at the Americans....

Theres a lot of argueing going on that its ok for gay people to have "civil unions" but not marriage... The problem I have with this is that straight people are also allowed to have civil unions.... so my question is....

Why is it ok for both heteros and homos to have civil unions but not ok for both to have marriages?????

Any and all thoughts welcome...especially from our brothers in the UK where this is already legal....

 

[eddielee]

I think a lot of people see marriage as a religious institution subject to the laws of that religion. Religious tradition is the hardest thing to change. A civil union would be subject to the laws of a state or country, rather than a religion. I'm happy when gay couples can marry, but many religions forbid it.

 

[looseliam]

I made a submission to our government when they were reviewing the law here. I said they should return "marriage" to the church and the state should make laws that everybody shall have a civil union.
<snip>

This is exactly how I feel. Let the church have marriages. It's not in the government's place to recognise religious rubbish.

 

[dezzab]

The US is suppose to be the leader of the free world - yet it is so behind on so many human rights dealing with gay rights! Most other large developed countries have gay marriages (UK, Canada are just two examples) but not US.

My predicament is that my partner is from the US and I am a UK citizen. We decided to move to the US to be with his family (I am not that close to mine) but we are finding it hard for me to get my US citizenship. My choices are to have an employee sponsor me or I have a sham marriage (to a women).

Now, here is the absurd part, my brother just met a lady here in the US and has only met her a couple of times, now he is talking about moving to the US to be with her. All they have to do is get married and he can get his citizenship. Whereas, I have been with my partner for 5 years, we can't get married...

Anyone got any ideas about what I could do to stay in the US?

 

[sissyboy]

I don't really care what they call it. I just want the same rights. 18 years of filing 2 tax returns,seperate insurance policies, trying to get everything in both our names or decide whether it should be legally mine or his(house, cars etc). Ever tried getting a mortgage with both names on the application? It's a laugh.

Then there's the issue of having to maintain powers of attorney for each other so that we can make decisions should the other not be able to and seperate wills to keep our families from trying to take everything from which ever of us survives the other.

Finally, we've earned the right to have our union legally recognized and legitmized. Been with my boyfriend 3 years longer than my sister has been married, yet still not seen as a real couple by so many...tired of being viewed as the world's longest term fuckbuddy.

I really feel that we've earned it.

 

[luminum]

In the end it's all semantics. I want the same rights and civil unions will give me those, if people hadn't be stupid as fuck and if anti-gay proponents hadn't straight-face lied to the public and created a precedent blocking any gay union at all.

But it was also about pride. I refuse to let stupid people think they've won when it's only about words. I want to crush them in their ignorance and make them see that the difference between 'civil union' and 'marriage' is two letters. Also, this 'traditional marriage' stuff is complete crap. Traditional since when? Polygamous marriage has been going on longer than monogamous Juedo-Christian marriage. How much more 'traditional' are we talking here?

 

[davy]

In the end it's all semantics. I want the same rights and civil unions will give me those, ...

are you sure?

many states stipulate that a wife or husband can't be forced to testify against her husband. something tells me that civil unions won't be included under this purview with a nice lengthy court battle about it.

not only that, but there are a whole lot of other laws that will have to challenged because they specifically state wife or husband... not civil partner.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think the solution to all this is to return marriage to the churches -- where it belongs; most Americans think it's a religious thing, and the government isn't supposed to make rules about religious things!
Then we replace "marriage" in all laws with "civil union", and everybody has a civil union in the government's eyes -- and those who want a religious ceremony can have a "marriage", too, but it won't have any legal standing.

 

[Kulindahr]

Which is why the whole system needs to be changed, not just patched. "Civil union" should be what everyone has -- straight, gay, triad, quartet, or whatever.
After all the government is civil, so any union they recognize should be a civil union. Leave marriage to the churches.

 

[luminum]

are you sure?

many states stipulate that a wife or husband can't be forced to testify against her husband. something tells me that civil unions won't be included under this purview with a nice lengthy court battle about it.

not only that, but there are a whole lot of other laws that will have to challenged because they specifically state wife or husband... not civil partner.

This is assuming that they abolish marriage and instate civil unions across the board, which is what I look toward.

 

[davy]

This is assuming that they abolish marriage and instate civil unions across the board, which is what I look toward.

i'de like to see that too; but with state voters approving civil unions and specifically striking down gay marriage in their constitutions, i think we're gonna see a whole mess of court battles trying to prove that a civil union is the same as a marriage.

 

[Kulindahr]

Maybe committed gays could do what a whole batch of libertarians did in what was called "The Freedom Project" -- thousands committed themselves to all moving to a certain state once one was chosen, in order to have a serious voter base. I think they went to New Hampshire -- which wouldn't be a bad place for several thousand gays to move to; the libertarians would happily vote to wipte out marriage (in legal terms) and replace it for free civil unions, and added to several thousand gay votes, it might be enough to sway the state.