Clinton Takes Swing At Obama's Gay Record

[Jannus]

I dunno, I give the candidates a break on the whole marriage vs. civil unions issue because I understand they can't alien middle america.

Yeah. You certainly wouldn't want to speak the truth to Americans. They might not like that.

The best way to obtain rights that are being denied to you is to pretend that you agree with the bigotry.

 

[sunoftheskye]

Yeah. You certainly wouldn't want to speak the truth to Americans. They might not like that.

The best way to obtain rights that are being denied to you is to pretend that you agree with the bigotry.

Right, 'cause we all know how bigoted it is to support every other piece of LGBT legislation, including civil unions.

 

[Jannus]

^ Agreed. People who support civil unions often do so as a way to try to deny gays the right to marriage.


If civil unions are the same as marriage, why must they be kept separate? And how is it possible to support civil unions and not marriage, if they are equal?

 

[sunoftheskye]

^ Agreed. People who support civil unions often do so as a way to try to deny gays the right to marriage.


If civil unions are the same as marriage, why must they be kept separate? And how is it possible to support civil unions and not marriage, if they are equal?

So my question to you is, would you rather vote in a Republican and get absolutely nothing?

 

[construct]

Civil unions are not the same thing as marriage. That is beside the point.

The issue in this campaign is whether or how much of DOMA should be repealed.

 

[khushibagh]

I think all else equal Hillary would like to support gay rights. However, she is of an earlier generation than Obama so she feels less comfortable than him in casually referring to gay people in straight venues. More importantly, the Clintons will throw over gay people in a heartbeat if it is to their political advantage. DOMA and DADT were good examples of that. Bill came up with DADT after he got a tremendous amount of heat from the Right on trying to repeal the ban. DOMA happened because the Republicans wanted to make gay marriage into an issue in 1996 and Bill nipped that right in the bud by supporting DOMA. If Hillary could support a war in Iraq that killed thousands of people just so that she could look tough what makes gay people think she'd go the extra mile for them? My guess is that Obama would do more for gay people because it interacting with gay people comes more naturally to a man of his generation while Hillary looks at gays as a vote bank to be tapped.

 

[Jannus]

So my question to you is, would you rather vote in a Republican and get absolutely nothing?

As I said in post #8 above, I want someone who gives a damn about rights in America. Rights for everyone - not just rich male WASPs. I don't care whether that person is a Democrat or Republican (although a Republican of such description would be astonishing, given their recent adoption of hatrred and bigotry as party platforms).

Mrs. Clinton is a kind person, I'm sure. But there are too many needy groups for her to care about, and we are one of them. She is a fair weather friend. As long as it helps her campaign to march in gay prides, she will speak politely of us. The moment she sees us as a liability, her knife will be the first in our backs.

At the same time she is telling us she supports civil unions, she is going behind our backs, telling the right-wingers she is a social conservative who opposes marriage rights for us queers. And she doesn't seem to really support even civil unions, since she thinks it's just fine if states want to deny us our rights. She won't try to interfere if people act to codify their hatred against us into law. She will not stand beside us.

That's a bunch of crap. Yeah, it's better than the phenomenal hatred stirred up against us in the name of God by the bigot-in-chief, GWB. But that ain't sayin' much.

There are a lot of people on this board who think it is preferable to campaign for people who merely dislike you and will not support you because that is better than people who will seek to destroy you. That's probably true. But it's not very good. And for me, it's not good enough.