On-Topic Clinton Will Win Popular Vote - Time to Scrap Electoral College

[Kulindahr]

A federal system involving states with wide differences in population, needs compromises to make it palatable to the lesser populated states. Our Constitution include compromises in the Senate and Electoral College. It has worked well giving us a stable democracy, the greatest economy in world history and the most powerful country. The Constitution also protects smaller states by requiring approval of amendments to the Constitution by 75% of the state legislatures. As a practiclal matter, election by national majority would involve giving the democrat/immigrant party a permanent lock on the presidency and a one party system. I can think of no rational reason for the states to allow the amendment.

Why did you have to pollute an otherwise sound post with your "democrat/immigrant" conspiracy theory BS?

 

[gsdx]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

At least 5 poorly qualified presidents would be more accurate. Carter, Clinton and Obama had not significant federal experience. Obama was a community organizer. Even Palin was better qualified. But it cannot be blamed on the electoral system.

But it's responsible for electing a man with no political experience whatsoever who actually lost the election.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

But it's responsible for electing a man with no political experience whatsoever who actually lost the election.

No one has lost the election yet, because it hasn't been held.

Citizens do not vote for president, states do. We only advise our states how we want them to vote.

Heck, it used to be that we chose electors, and they made their own decision. Of course originally electors tended to be people who actually knew the candidates, which isn't often the case any longer, and really hasn't been since before the Civil War.

 

[Benvolio]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

But it's responsible for electing a man with no political experience whatsoever who actually lost the election.

. That remains to be seen. Trump and the GOP will use the recounts to expose voter fraud.

 

[nycguydowntown]

it's all sad but true---Trump is not normal---no matter how much we try to make it all ok---and no one knows what to do about it----[video]http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/29/watch-keith-olbermanns-epic-response-trump-saying-millions-voted-illegally-steal-election/[/video]

 

[Kabluey]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

They'll have to cover up those frauds pretty quickly, assuming they're theirs.

 

[gsdx]

it's all sad but true---Trump is not normal---no matter how much we try to make it all ok---and no one knows what to do about it----[video]http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/29/watch-keith-olbermanns-epic-response-trump-saying-millions-voted-illegally-steal-election/[/video]

This deserves much more than a 'wow'. This deserves a 'Holy Shit!'

Well, long before the election, we were questioning his sanity. And now we're watching it slip deeper and deeper.

The man is absolutely terrifying.

 

[Alnitak]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

No one has lost the election yet, because it hasn't been held.

Citizens do not vote for president, states do. We only advise our states how we want them to vote.

Heck, it used to be that we chose electors, and they made their own decision. Of course originally electors tended to be people who actually knew the candidates, which isn't often the case any longer, and really hasn't been since before the Civil War.

Popular votes were not held in all states until 1872. It was a moral failure for the drafters of the Constitution to think that their glorified intellectual oligarchy would last beyond the election of James Monroe. The democratization of the presidential election was a message that the Electoral College was an artifact of medieval Germany and should have stayed that way.

 

[palemale]

A federal system involving states with wide differences in population, needs compromises to make it palatable to the lesser populated states. Our Constitution include compromises in the Senate and Electoral College. It has worked well giving us a stable democracy, the greatest economy in world history and the most powerful country. The Constitution also protects smaller states by requiring approval of amendments to the Constitution by 75% of the state legislatures. As a practiclal matter, election by national majority would involve giving the democrat/immigrant party a permanent lock on the presidency and a one party system. I can think of no rational reason for the states to allow the amendment.

Supporters of the electoral college are stuck in the 18th Century. We have moved on. The electoral college and our federal system as designed in the constitution rewarded two types of states with greater influence in our political system. Small, rural states and large, slave-holding states.

Kuli, Benvolio mentions democrat/immigrant party because he believes non-white voters should have less influence. It's a telling admission. Benvolio, like the Republican Party, knows that Republicans cannot win the popular vote and continue to be the racist, bigoted, and homophobic party that it is right now. That's why Republican legislators and governors have worked overtime to suppress and deny voting rights to minorities, students and poor people.

 

[palemale]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

. That remains to be seen. Trump and the GOP will use the recounts to expose voter fraud.

You're as delusional as your president-elect.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

Popular votes were not held in all states until 1872. It was a moral failure for the drafters of the Constitution to think that their glorified intellectual oligarchy would last beyond the election of James Monroe. The democratization of the presidential election was a message that the Electoral College was an artifact of medieval Germany and should have stayed that way.

No, it was an artifact of liberty to keep the small states from being dominated by the large.

And since small states still value their liberty, the EC is not going away.

 

[Kulindahr]

Supporters of the electoral college are stuck in the 18th Century. We have moved on. The electoral college and our federal system as designed in the constitution rewarded two types of states with greater influence in our political system. Small, rural states and large, slave-holding states.

Kuli, Benvolio mentions democrat/immigrant party because he believes non-white voters should have less influence. It's a telling admission. Benvolio, like the Republican Party, knows that Republicans cannot win the popular vote and continue to be the racist, bigoted, and homophobic party that it is right now. That's why Republican legislators and governors have worked overtime to suppress and deny voting rights to minorities, students and poor people.

Wanting to do away with the Electoral College is like saying that colleges with more students should get to put more players on the athletic field. Big schools would love it, but small schools would be quite right to protest.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Protest. Protest, America!

You're as delusional as your president-elect.

Yeah. I think it's just as likely that recounts will discover that at least two of those states were hacked on Trump's behalf as that they'll uncover more than maybe a few hundred fraudulent votes.

The GOP is right that we need a rigorous voter ID system. But they're wrong in using that to make it harder to vote. Democrats should write voter ID legislation that has provisions for contacting everyone currently registered and making it as easy as possible for them to get the necessary ID -- and they should do it fast, to get that ID out before the next elections. For that matter, I'd start by just issuing the necessary ID to anyone born before 1980, in order to simplify matters.

People are always claiming Soros is involved in these things; maybe he could be persuaded to fund a system to contact all those voters and make sure they have the ID they need.

 

[palemale]

Wanting to do away with the Electoral College is like saying that colleges with more students should get to put more players on the athletic field. Big schools would love it, but small schools would be quite right to protest.

So when it comes time to vote for president, the votes of the students in the small schools should count more than the votes from the big schools? Bad analogy.

The arguments about big states having too much power at the expense of the small states is sophistry. What difference does the size of the state matter when choosing the president. People make these big state/small state arguments, but they are meaningless because no says how it matters and what harm will come to small states if the president is chosen by popular vote. We know the harm the framers feared at the founding of the Republic. The major slave holding states had large populations but, of course, the slaves could not vote. So, we had the 3/5 compromise and the southern states got representation out of proportion to the number of voters they had. The quid pro quo for joining the Republic was that they would always have slavery. People also had more allegiance to their state than the new country, and didn't know what rights they might be forfeiting to the big states in the new country. Those concerns are history. The fact is that, now, the big state/small state issue is a dead letter, a historic anomaly. We are all Americans and are all entitled to an equal say in who our president is, period.

 

[gsdx]

We are all Americans and are all entitled to an equal say in who our president is, period.

This.

We are all Americans and are all entitled to an equal say in who our president is, period.

And this.

We are all Americans and are all entitled to an equal say in who our president is, period.

And this.

Why bother voting if it doesn't count?

Over 2 million people voted for one thing and got the other. It's like their 'right to vote' didn't matter.

 

[Benvolio]

it's all sad but true---Trump is not normal---no matter how much we try to make it all ok---and no one knows what to do about it----[video]http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/29/watch-keith-olbermanns-epic-response-trump-saying-millions-voted-illegally-steal-election/[/video]

Just crying wolf as always. Olbermann hates Republicans. Surprise, surprise.

 

[Benvolio]

This.



And this.



And this.

Why bother voting if it doesn't count?

Over 2 million people voted for one thing and got the other. It's like their 'right to vote' didn't read matter.

Read the Constitution. It defines what you are "entitled to". Technically you are not entitled to a say in who will br president. You vote for electors. By "entitled" you mean it would be nice.

 

[gsdx]

Just crying wolf as always. Olbermann hates Republicans. Surprise, surprise.

But what he says is exactly what Trump has done. They are not opinions. They are fact.

 

[gsdx]

Read the Constitution.

The Constitution was written for a nation which does not exist anymore.

 

[Benvolio]

Supporters of the electoral college are stuck in the 18th Century. We have moved on. The electoral college and our federal system as designed in the constitution rewarded two types of states with greater influence in our political system. Small, rural states and large, slave-holding states.

Kuli, Benvolio mentions democrat/immigrant party because he believes non-white voters should have less influence. It's a telling admission. Benvolio, like the Republican Party, knows that Republicans cannot win the popular vote and continue to be the racist, bigoted, and homophobic party that it is right now. That's why Republican legislators and governors have worked overtime to suppress and deny voting rights to minorities, students and poor people.

No, democrats pander to immigrants with promises and practices to hurt existing Americans with high taxes and give aways to immigrants and the poor--kept poor by the immigration. Democrats have made it illegal to prefer Americans in hiring, but hiring prefering immigrants and minorities is legal or required. Affirmative action, don't you know. They have actually enacted a statute saying "minorities to the maximum extent possible. If they are labeled "refugees" they get to live off the American taxpayers for years, while they learn the welfare for illegitimate children scam.
Now the dems want to add further damage to the country by enhancing the voting power of the immigrants to the detriment of existing Americans. Not going to happen.