First I just want to say that many of the threads here are very helpful and thank everyone for all the good advice. However I'm a black male and a lot of things differ in the black community concerning gay lifestyle. I was wondering if some black or latino males out there could share some of their experiences to help me.
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Coming out...black community
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I thinkt here's also a mentality of putting on a good shows as minorities in a society. Minorities face that dualistic expectation to be flawless to prove themselves but also just be who they are as equally free as anyone else.
So I think anytime you are something that can be considered 'weak' or 'detrimentally different' communities like Black or Latino communities frown upon it, such as being an out gay man. "How are you representing the proud Black community by being a wimpy, limp-wristed fag?" and all that.
I think that's a kind of abstract challenge that gay men who are usually Black or Latino, face in terms of seeking acceptance in their own communities that they amy not face so much in the White community.
But, like I always believe, the best way for anything to change is for there to be defineable examples of the opposite. "Not all gay men are limp-wristed or wimpy, though some are and that's fine, and here's an example of some who aren't: me." Or "I'm a gay, Black man, and I'm no different from any other Black man in the community." And it's always tough to be one of the firsts.
Eventually, more people will come out and prove to be the exception to the rule until one day a guy like you can say "I'm Black/Latino and gay" and they won't face those challenges because their communities will have already seen that the stigmas they once attached to queer men are untrue.
So my advice is that despite the challenges that one faces in the community, it's better to be who you are as openly as anyone else. Even if parts of you follow the stereotype, other parts of you don't, and it's up to others to be clear-headed enough to understand that. By now, the Black community must be aware of the sever problem with 'down low' men, since the majority of Black women in America with HIV are being infected because their male partners are having unprotected sex with other men on the down low. I personally feel that this is less so because it's 'gay sex' and more so because the pressured secretive nature of these trysts allows for more mistakes and ignorance to occur.
The Black community knows about it's down low problem, but I think it still needs ot see how the pressured attitudes it has against homosexuality are fueling the problem. And I think that sometimes, the best way for people to be educated is for someone in their own community to show them the way, instead of someone outside their community trying to tell them things that have no immediate impact on them. That someone could be you and you won't be alone.
So I think anytime you are something that can be considered 'weak' or 'detrimentally different' communities like Black or Latino communities frown upon it, such as being an out gay man. "How are you representing the proud Black community by being a wimpy, limp-wristed fag?" and all that.
I think that's a kind of abstract challenge that gay men who are usually Black or Latino, face in terms of seeking acceptance in their own communities that they amy not face so much in the White community.
But, like I always believe, the best way for anything to change is for there to be defineable examples of the opposite. "Not all gay men are limp-wristed or wimpy, though some are and that's fine, and here's an example of some who aren't: me." Or "I'm a gay, Black man, and I'm no different from any other Black man in the community." And it's always tough to be one of the firsts.
Eventually, more people will come out and prove to be the exception to the rule until one day a guy like you can say "I'm Black/Latino and gay" and they won't face those challenges because their communities will have already seen that the stigmas they once attached to queer men are untrue.
So my advice is that despite the challenges that one faces in the community, it's better to be who you are as openly as anyone else. Even if parts of you follow the stereotype, other parts of you don't, and it's up to others to be clear-headed enough to understand that. By now, the Black community must be aware of the sever problem with 'down low' men, since the majority of Black women in America with HIV are being infected because their male partners are having unprotected sex with other men on the down low. I personally feel that this is less so because it's 'gay sex' and more so because the pressured secretive nature of these trysts allows for more mistakes and ignorance to occur.
The Black community knows about it's down low problem, but I think it still needs ot see how the pressured attitudes it has against homosexuality are fueling the problem. And I think that sometimes, the best way for people to be educated is for someone in their own community to show them the way, instead of someone outside their community trying to tell them things that have no immediate impact on them. That someone could be you and you won't be alone.
^ Yeah, same with me too. I'm the only male in the family who can pass on the name and blood. It sucks and it's a pressure we deal with. I have the exact same feelings. I want to adopt kids, and give them my name (not the motivation for adotping, midn you) and I know that my parents wouldn't ccept my children. My dad thinks adoption is like charity. *sigh
It does suck, but I don't think of it as ending anymore and I refuse to feel bad for being who I am.
It does suck, but I don't think of it as ending anymore and I refuse to feel bad for being who I am.
I have chosen to stand my ground on my sexuality. I don't take value what others say about me being me. Yeah, I'm black and bisexual, "And? It isn't like I'm not human." I always try to teach and show the ignorant that one should not judge others because they are different, but try to understnd them and appreciate their uniqueness. Now if they refuse to understand that then screw them because I don't pedal with those that have chosen bigotry over understanding.
You just be you are realize that you can't change yourself to be something you are not just to please others.
You just be you are realize that you can't change yourself to be something you are not just to please others.
drhladnjak
JUB Addict
I'm white so I can't comment first hand, but my best friend is black and gay. He's very good (either through training or just luck) with telling his family and other black people that they don't have to like it but it's how things are and he's going to live his life as he sees fit. Basically, he knows he's a good person who lives up to his word and if they can't deal with him being gay, well, fuck 'em.
In a lot of ways, he's able to pull it off because he's worked so hard to be successful and indepedent (college grad, good white collar gov't job, well liked, very confident after growing up as a ward of the court). There have been cases where relatives disparaged him or his grandparents (who mainly raised him) due to his sexuality where he's turned it around on them. Questions like "So how's your 28 year old son's job at Popeye's working out for him?" have a way of making people shut up when they know your kid's got a cush job with good benefits working for the gov't.
In a lot of ways, he's able to pull it off because he's worked so hard to be successful and indepedent (college grad, good white collar gov't job, well liked, very confident after growing up as a ward of the court). There have been cases where relatives disparaged him or his grandparents (who mainly raised him) due to his sexuality where he's turned it around on them. Questions like "So how's your 28 year old son's job at Popeye's working out for him?" have a way of making people shut up when they know your kid's got a cush job with good benefits working for the gov't.
M
mabby7
Guest
Haha. Great comeback. People shouldn't judge people, we should help them out instead.
M
mabby7
Guest
Wow, I'm sure many people feel this way. Probably even people with European ancestry.
I think that is most most profound thing that can be said about dealing with homophobia.
TrdMrk
On the Prowl
Both my parents are ministers, although not as strict as other Black ministers, it still was a shock when they found a letter from my long-haired, brown-eyed , white boyfriend (who they liked even though he was gay up until that point). Now it's the elephant we don't talk about; I told them I wasn't anymore and they are happy (sad I know, my bf hates that he will never be as close to my parents as he used to be and never will be).
All of my friends are deeply entrenched in the Hip-Hop culture, so faggotry is definitely not something tolerated...but at the same time, I'm not a big fan of it (femininity in guys) either and quite masculine, so even though I'm not all over girls and barely talk about them, I'm still considered just the friend (homie) who does his thing, but not gay (although I damn near have done everything that anyone else would have gotten called out on already).
At the same time, I have been messing with a girl on the side and everyone uses that as reasoning why I'm not gay, bisexual isn't an option in the black community because it's hard to believe that someone can love both sexes and not take on traits extremely different from them: everything is one or the other in the Black Community.
Just when I think I have allies, I find myself alone. So I guess I'm "DL" and will stay that way (and no I'm always protected and both the male and female know about my activity, so I'm not propagating diseases).
Sorry for the sprawl, alot to say and I'm sitting at work in a Univeristy Admissions office.
All of my friends are deeply entrenched in the Hip-Hop culture, so faggotry is definitely not something tolerated...but at the same time, I'm not a big fan of it (femininity in guys) either and quite masculine, so even though I'm not all over girls and barely talk about them, I'm still considered just the friend (homie) who does his thing, but not gay (although I damn near have done everything that anyone else would have gotten called out on already).
At the same time, I have been messing with a girl on the side and everyone uses that as reasoning why I'm not gay, bisexual isn't an option in the black community because it's hard to believe that someone can love both sexes and not take on traits extremely different from them: everything is one or the other in the Black Community.
Just when I think I have allies, I find myself alone. So I guess I'm "DL" and will stay that way (and no I'm always protected and both the male and female know about my activity, so I'm not propagating diseases).
Sorry for the sprawl, alot to say and I'm sitting at work in a Univeristy Admissions office.
I feel you. I guess I've never really gave a damn whether or not people won't to believe me when it comes to my sexuality.
Unfortunately I don't have a story to share; I just wanted to address this:
That's not necessarily true. I took this information from wikipedia, I know that's not a reputable source but I pretty much learned the same thing in a sexuality class I once had:
The theory behind many of the media reports on the down-low was that men who were unable to confront their sexual identity were not responding to messages promoting safe sex. Because of the secretive nature of being on the down-low, it was thought that they didn't generally use condoms with their male partners.
Despite the numerous media accounts attempting to link the down-low to the occurrence of AIDS in the African-American community, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has never cited men on the down-low as the cause. No extensive research has ever been published about men on the down-low, in part because of the difficulty of identifying the targeted population. A 2003 CDC study of 5,589 men who have sex with men found that black men who have sex with men who do disclose their sexual orientation were more likely to be safe in some of their sexual practices and more likely to be HIV negative than other black men who have sex with men who do not disclose their sexual orientation.
The hype over the down-low has created an additional problem in HIV prevention efforts because many women have focused on determining whether male suitors are bisexual or gay instead of using protection in every single sexual encounter. The result is that men who may be infected by any means often have unprotected sex with these women who are solely concerned with whether or not the man is on the DL.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything; sociology is just kinda my thing
That's not necessarily true. I took this information from wikipedia, I know that's not a reputable source but I pretty much learned the same thing in a sexuality class I once had:
The theory behind many of the media reports on the down-low was that men who were unable to confront their sexual identity were not responding to messages promoting safe sex. Because of the secretive nature of being on the down-low, it was thought that they didn't generally use condoms with their male partners.
Despite the numerous media accounts attempting to link the down-low to the occurrence of AIDS in the African-American community, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has never cited men on the down-low as the cause. No extensive research has ever been published about men on the down-low, in part because of the difficulty of identifying the targeted population. A 2003 CDC study of 5,589 men who have sex with men found that black men who have sex with men who do disclose their sexual orientation were more likely to be safe in some of their sexual practices and more likely to be HIV negative than other black men who have sex with men who do not disclose their sexual orientation.
The hype over the down-low has created an additional problem in HIV prevention efforts because many women have focused on determining whether male suitors are bisexual or gay instead of using protection in every single sexual encounter. The result is that men who may be infected by any means often have unprotected sex with these women who are solely concerned with whether or not the man is on the DL.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything; sociology is just kinda my thing
You're right that it's not a proven statistic (well, as much as statistics can prove anything...) but it certainly is the believed reason from doctors, public health officials, and down low men who have come out into the open to talk about it.
seijnsational
On the Prowl
Black guy here, and I think we have the potential in our community to be just as understanding and considerate as others. It really boils down to having dialogues with people that you really know care and love you for who you are regardless of your sexual orientation.
My mother up until she passed away was my biggest cheerleader and my best friend in life. And as is the case with most mother's she already knew long before I sat and had the chat with her. I think the rest of the family pretty much took her lead. I have 2 older brothers, 5 sisters and a West Indian father. Trust me when I tell you I was terrified at best but it was all for naught.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or if you'd like an off line dialog about this.
My mother up until she passed away was my biggest cheerleader and my best friend in life. And as is the case with most mother's she already knew long before I sat and had the chat with her. I think the rest of the family pretty much took her lead. I have 2 older brothers, 5 sisters and a West Indian father. Trust me when I tell you I was terrified at best but it was all for naught.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or if you'd like an off line dialog about this.
it's going to come down to how accepting your friends/family are and your relationships with them.
there's shock and fighting at the beginning but those you have a deep relationship with will still come back to you. those are the one that you have to work on in convincing you're still a human being.
but be sure that they come back to you because of you, not because they think you're "wrong."
there's shock and fighting at the beginning but those you have a deep relationship with will still come back to you. those are the one that you have to work on in convincing you're still a human being.
but be sure that they come back to you because of you, not because they think you're "wrong."
My experiences have been somewhat of a mixed bag. Both of my parents are extremely liberal in many cases, and I was raised to be accepting of all people. Their was some shock on the part of my father when I came out at 18 (I'm 28 now), but my mother claimed that she knew and was happy that I was able to share it with her. My extended family is another story as they are quite conservative on social matters and deeply religious. Other than one aunt on my mother's side, none of them know though I would imagine that there are suspicions as I have never spoken of a gf. I think as a whole the black community has a lot of work to do in this regard as evidenced by the whole "down low" phenom.
AngelFromAbove
JUB Addict
You know, I've been wondering the same thing myself. What a major contradiction.
Riverrick
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I think the Christian Church offered a kind of spiritual freedom to slaves as well as a place to gather and express their feelings in a way that was safe. The freedom of salvation was actually freedom from a life of slavery. This gave them hope for a future that was better than the present life they were experiencing.
The church was probably the one great unifier of slaves also. It was the one social device that brought them all together and later sustained them. So it has strong emotional roots in African American society.
drhladnjak
JUB Addict
Once you've been converted to a religion for generations, it's hard to go back. Religious beliefs are formed early in life and have historically been an integral part of most social groups.
That said, there is a whole black Islamic movement (most notably Nation of Islam) which is largely based on rejecting white Christianity in favor of black Islam.
That said, there is a whole black Islamic movement (most notably Nation of Islam) which is largely based on rejecting white Christianity in favor of black Islam.