Common Arguments Against Gays and Same-Sex Marriage…and How to Counter Them

[Ephemeral]

Post this on your Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, LiveJournal, tumblr, email it, text it, sing it, tell it to your friends, family, classmates, co-workers, whatever. Everyone should see this.

“The Bible states-“
Stop right there. I don’t want to offend anyone with the following statements, but they must be said. America is not a theocracy. The Bible is not the Constitution. Christianity, or any other religion, doesn’t rule or govern America. This is not a Christian country; this is a secular country. One religion ruling the country goes against the very ideas of our forefathers. That’s the reason why pilgrims came to America in the first place, to escape religious persecution from the Catholic ruling power. This is why separation of church and state exist in the Constitution.

You’re free to believe, practice, and praise whatever religion you’re a part of; I fully respect that. Religion is a personal, private matter. Once it starts influencing laws and the rights of others, then it becomes public.

Let’s say a politician enacted a law, rule, or plan of action affecting you based on what the Torah or Buddha’s teachings stated. Would that be fair or wise? Not everyone’s Christian or follow the Bible’s teachings. Not everyone adheres to Christian beliefs. You’re banning people’s rights based on something they don’t even follow. Be honest: is that fair? Would you want the same thing to happen to you?

“Marriage is a Christian term/idea. The church should decide if gays get married. Gays can get civil unions and receive the same rights, but they can’t call it marriage.”

When did Christians claim ownership of the term or idea marriage? Christianity didn’t create the idea or the term ‘marriage’. Marriages existed long before Christianity, starting as early as Babylonian times, which began in 3700 BC!

Calling it civil unions is referring to gays as second-class citizens, unworthy of real marriage. Separate but equal really. Gays should have the legal right to call it the same thing their heterosexual family and friends do. Same rights, same name.

I respect the right of churches to choose rather gays can marry in their place of worship. That’s their personal, legal decision.

“Being gay is immoral.”
Your opinion, not a fact. Gay people have the same morals, rules, likes, dislikes, dreams, ambitions, goals, and hobbies like you. They aren’t all promiscuous and they aren’t child molesters. They have the same amount of strengths and flaws you have.

“If we let gays marry, then we’d open the door for polygamy, pedophilia, and bestiality.”
Wrong. Same-sex marriage is between two consenting human adults. Heterosexual marriage is between two consenting human adults. The only thing different are the genders. Gay marriage won’t cause a marriage benefits revision, involve minors who’re still mentally and emotionally developing or unknowing animals.

“It’s always been tradition for a man and a woman to marry. Why fix something that isn’t broken?”
Because it is broken. It’s unfair, unconstitutional and if you consider the ideas of our forefathers. Just because something’s tradition doesn’t make it right. As taxpaying, law-abiding Americans, gays deserve equal rights.

“Being gay is a choice. A gay man can easily leave that life and marry a woman.”
Just like you can leave your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband and become gay. Although scientists haven’t found the exact cause of homosexuality, they believe for certain that it is not a choice. Biological differences between straight and gay men have been found; certain areas of a gay male’s brain react like a woman’s brain. The same is for lesbians, in which certain areas may respond like a man’s brain. Finger length may be different for a gay male than a straight male. Even gay men’s hair whorl may be different; they’re more likely to have a counterclockwise whorl whereas straight men are more likely have clockwise whorls.

Gays do not wake up one day and say, “Today, I’m going to wear my favorite pair of jeans and be gay.” It’s something totally different. Some know when they hit puberty, before puberty, during adolescence, adulthood, or even later. When the realization hits varies from person to person. The only thing they choose is to be true to their selves and others. Besides, who’d choose to be something their family, friends, teachers, classmates, boss, politicians, religion, and society abhors? Where they may face discrimination, rejection, ostracism, and harassment?

Let’s say a man does marry a woman, have kids, and try to lead the straight life. He may be the best actor in the world, but he won’t be able to hide his feelings forever. He may cheat with other men or “be on the downlow” as some people call it. She may discover it and be devastated. Could you imagine what finding out that you’re husband is gay and that your marriage is a lie would do to you? Why lie to yourself, your husband or wife, and your kids in order to live a lie? Society isn’t the one that has to deal with the lies and turmoil, you do.

“Same-sex marriage will drive up the divorce rates.”
So will opposite-sex marriage. A person’s divorce has no effect on you. Your happy marriage won’t suddenly end because your sister got a divorce. If it does, then your marriage wasn’t stable from the get-go.

“Gay marriage will threaten the institute of marriage.”
How? How are two men or women getting married going to affect your marriage in any way? Same-sex marriage won’t cause divorces or infidelity. It will not defile or taint marriage. Actually, it’ll honor marriage. It’ll show that people still value marriage and see it as worthwhile. It could encourage others to get married. It’ll also provide a great market for wedding planners, caterers, and all the other businesses and people involved in making a wedding happen.

“Gay marriage will threaten America’s families and society.”
Again, how? Gay marriage won’t cause adultery, illness, debt, teenage rebellion, or bad grades to occur in your family. It also won’t destroy society. These are all the places that’ve legalized same-sex marriage: Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Spain, South Africa, Canada, Mexico City, Portugal, and Iceland.

Even 5 states and 1 district in the U.S. have legalized same-sex marriage: Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Washington D.C. Buildings haven’t collapsed, crime rates haven’t shot up, and famine hasn’t ravaged the people. Everyone is OK.

“This is only to influence our children.”
Like how some religious groups influence children to discriminate against gays? Gays don’t want to recruit, convert, warp, or do anything to children; they simply want their American right to marry.

“Why are gays making such a big deal over this? Marriage isn’t that important.”
Actually, it is. Right now, there are 1,100 federal benefits and 400 state benefits granted to married couples. These range from wrongful death benefits to surviving spouse and children to hospital visitation rights. Let’s not forget what private institutions, organizations, and businesses offer. Gays are paying for benefits they don’t even receive.

Plus, marriage is a way to express love and happiness, to let your partner know you truly love and care for them. We all love beautiful weddings, so why not have more of them?

“I don’t think they should marry. Gay people are just weird/freaky/disgusting/scary. They make me uncomfortable.”
This is a poor reason to not grant someone their rights and happiness. Many people were (and still are, unfortunately) uncomfortable with interracial marriage and found dating out of their race weird or disgusting. Have any problems arisen from that? In life, you’ll come into contact with people or things that’re strange or unfamiliar. It’s your responsibility to learn and ask questions when you don’t understand. Sitting in ignorance or fear doesn’t do anyone any good. As long as it’s consensual, loving adults, then there’s really no issue.

“If they want to get married, fine, let them move to where they allow it!”
This is an option but would you really want to lose your doctors, police officers, firefighters, nurses, EMTs, rangers, teachers, sanitation workers, business owners, friends, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, sons, or daughters? Would you like to move away from everything and everyone you love because of discriminating politicians and voters?

“Gays just want special rights.”
Gays just want the same rights you have; nothing more, nothing less. Gay people pay taxes, pay bills, go to work, fight in the military, and vote just like you. So why shouldn’t they be able to get married?

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

no offence but a me see a this paste up ons walls across countrys me rip it off da walls

 

[Nomenclature]

"Being gay is a choice."

No, who we're attracted to isn't a choice. . .but your religion certainly is.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

I don't disagree, but...

be honest. That was pretty offensive.

ya lost me how it take of wall offense?

 

[theFallenGod]

I was always curious as to why you can get married in a courthouse without going to a church but if you go to a church you HAVE to go to the government to get it legalised.

Why then does the church claim exclusive rights to it?

 

[BabiGayPimp]

I don't count on the "unconstitutional" argument. Just becomes somethings is morally right and socially just does not mean that is is constitutuonally mandated. And everytime we insist that same gender marriage is a constitutional right we get laughed at.

 

[Ephemeral]

Presumably you meant that you would take it down from walls because it's kind of dumb and doesn't represent our side particularly well...?

How is it dumb? What changes would you make?

 

[treanir]

"But God says it's wrong: leviticus 18:22."
All arguments rendered invalid, discussion ended, victory declared.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Presumably you meant that you would take it down from walls because it's kind of dumb and doesn't represent our side particularly well...?

yous a post already asnwerin ya ownquestion

confusion riegn ans walls strain all over world
Berlin wall come down
North Korea pendin
from portugals ta south america
ans other way round

walls stills a sing with humanitys confusion
maybe oned day they memorials ta alls da pain

- me guessin some folks Internet means a well ways ( GAY ) ans lot words raise a up and cut up defendeds ans made ta fit whateva duck

Me thinkin in world is just be GAY ans """"" Let all gay figure out da one body"""" ans let ( Straight world )< what breakin up get used ta concept cause history right up it back

ans no need any word for people but maybe cultures sooo lost ins da bedtime books needs helps ta has pictures ans words

much is done world past 150 years but slow it is ans reverse it cans ans females stills learnin ta be with males figurin out hows wear da pants whiles da straight worlds once ways ans stills a goes ans woes unquestioned ans folks no bless with luck or birth live with whatever theys be used fa ans keep head down ans do YA WORK

ya got Human race in flux with many folks many cultures lots stills workin out much
while estbalish orders and professions play ta their desks ans fuck up much

ans ( GAY ) what is no countrys pet need be figure da whole world If GAY is ta be born ans sit with thems other label ( Straight< what a learnin ta be Human

no folk need permission of bunch pants anywhere ta be human as freedom of life with s outs da hoops ta fit whateva be da latest fancy of MAN beyonds what a life can

ans so on ans lots stufffffffffsssss

---

Commerical bubbles of (SUB urbians) ans love of fantasy ans wish where reality no place table but lock up in somes folk wish - got figure out Drama ans scripts no make sense ta lot in world whens no idea what da play be this time round ans Them folk them folk livin reality just gots more folk quening up ta their dish ta fills their well of wish

folk no evens understand da right ta vote ans what it mean in manyyyyy countrys

ans there on wall is more them words folks rush by no time ta figure da holes ans more kids born inta cages fill with traps ans many a woes

but world got sattalites ans I pads ans there da ODD world it be while humanity lost in da pit of WHAT? cause it not Human

GAY< is but word not include all ans defo internet rip inta many ans their bury da word jus asl soooooooo many cultures doooooo

ans is alls folk prepare ta live life like of old with so MUCH TA DO way media&Co keep all busy with lot fantasys ans their brain numb ta all thing what matter tills they go >>>> ans obvious it is all ova da world

ans no even start a yet ta say! but hey 1 + 1 = many number ya see if only Cultures just stop fa once ans take a bit time under da tree ans think ons their feet

dat be neat

buts untils a thens

go polish ma fairy lights ans see what da wishin well brings a me

 

[Ephemeral]

"But God says it's wrong: leviticus 18:22."
All arguments rendered invalid, discussion ended, victory declared.

In the first question, I say that America isn't a theocracy, that they wouldn't want others to project their religious beliefs on them.

Whether they choose to read on or not is their choice, but I at least wanted to get the ball rolling and discussions started.

 

[Ephemeral]

As soon as someone resorts to defending their prejudices by invoking the 'God' hypothesis they've already lost the argument.

True, but that's always their first or last resort. We gotta tackle it somehow if we plan to get anywhere.

 

[swerve]

I read the OP -- and, I guess, well, I would RATHER take a DIFFERENT tact with the people that I come into contact with...

Conversation is a way better tool than just "telling"...

And I would answer a LOT of those questions differently and PROBABLY way more CONVINCINGLY...

 

[rareboy]

Uh.

You could always tell them that the civilized western nations have allowed it.

And they're all in way better shape socially than the US.

 

[treanir]

In the first question, I say that America isn't a theocracy, that they wouldn't want others to project their religious beliefs on them.

"But the Bible is the infallible word of God. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, so it is."

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't reason with religion. It won't work. Someone who looks at homosexuality from a (here) biblical point of view will not be persuaded by reasoning, no matter how true or eloquent. You can't win against the God argument.

 

[Ephemeral]

"But the Bible is the infallible word of God. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, so it is."

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't reason with religion. It won't work. Someone who looks at homosexuality from a (here) biblical point of view will not be persuaded by reasoning, no matter how true or eloquent. You can't win against the God argument.

I understand that, but I'm not trying to change their religious beliefs. I'm not trying to refute what God or the Bible said.

I want them to see it as if the tables were turned. This is what I want them to think about:

What if someone said, 'But Yahweh said' or 'But Allah said' or 'But Shiva said' or 'But Buddha said' or 'But The Enchanted Granola Bar said' D) to counter a right they believed in? That wouldn't be too fair to you, so why would you do the same to someone else?

I want them to take a secular look at same-sex marriage, to see it from a legal standpoint, not a religious one.

 

[treanir]

I want them to see it as if the tables were turned. [...] I want them to take a secular look at same-sex marriage, to see it from a legal standpoint, not a religious one.

You're trying to do the impossible. Once the God argument has been invoked, it will remain that way. Any argument you give, anything you offer, any other POV you try to inspire will be countered with some form of "God is right".

 

[Ephemeral]

You're trying to do the impossible. Once the God argument has been invoked, it will remain that way. Any argument you give, anything you offer, any other POV you try to inspire will be countered with some form of "God is right".

So, we should give up trying to get same-sex marriage approved in all 50 U.S. states?

 

[treanir]

So, we should give up trying to get same-sex marriage approved in all 50 U.S. states?

Oh, I thought we were talking about individual debates here. On a macro scale, other forces are at work. Acceptance of homosexuality is on the rise, albeit slowly. In a group situation, the tide turns slowly. I appreciate that it has to turn one person at a time, but I think these people see for themselves that gay≠bad. They're not won over by rationalisations and argumentation, but by experience. By seeing for themselves that we want the same they want. That we don't differ that much. THAT, in my opinion, is the key to getting same-sex marriage legal.

 

[Ephemeral]

Oh, I thought we were talking about individual debates here. On a macro scale, other forces are at work. Acceptance of homosexuality is on the rise, albeit slowly. In a group situation, the tide turns slowly. I appreciate that it has to turn one person at a time, but I think these people see for themselves that gay≠bad. They're not won over by rationalisations and argumentation, but by experience. By seeing for themselves that we want the same they want. That we don't differ that much. THAT, in my opinion, is the key to getting same-sex marriage legal.

Yep, I was talking on a grand scale as well.

The people are the voters, and the voters often control what happens politically.

I know in a classroom, hair salon, or hang out with a group of friends, this argument won't sway that many opinions. But on a widespread, country scale, it could. It could make people not support groups like Mormons or Evangelicans or take an apathetic view to gay marriage. They may have their personal convictions opposing it, but they aren't gonna go out and vote against it.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

You clearly have a sharp mind, sloppyseconds, and a gift for language (most people, self included, cannot be so inventive so prolifically). Unlike many other people, I think it's an appealing challenge to try to translate what you say into terms I can understand. But I have to say I regret that despite my best efforts, most of it is still lost.

think sharp mind mean whateva say is not easy
world is there ans see what is easy ans no sharp need

such a topics internet be with 2 dozen folk ans whole planet 6000 plus ans not one country doin any sharp but major denial ans others lots da harps ta subjects long ago bes wait fa cultures pick up ages ago

internet ya think be years ahead but no

( (most people, self included, cannot be so inventive so prolifically ) digest it slow as worlds woe newspaper ta tv ans political socks ans banks a chuckle with lot da ducks while da knomes fill da shops ans eat their tv


( But I have to say I regret that despite my best efforts, most of it is still lost.) It okay
me know lots in world figure stuff what no words or internet be or any univeristy degree

but if ya feels lost try ask folk fa directions ans maybe ya no be lost< not custom as many countrys a be no matter what side runnin um

in meantime millions folks dealin with da yoke good luck out there