Complex Compulsion

[Vlad-Dracul]

Good day to everyone.
Where to start with this issue. What's sure is that I'll be giving you guys something long to read.
Let me preface this by saying that I found these forums not long ago. Throughout this time, I've read many posts that somewhat relate to my situation. I felt a need to post, but at the same time, I didn't want this to become a never-ending [STRIKE]heartbreak[/STRIKE] clichéd story, with perpetual updates about a "gay-guy-falls-for-straight-guy", "unrequited-love" saga, like quite a few notorious threads on the forum. I wanted to have the issue under control before getting any input... any opinions about it. At present time, that seems to be the case; though, certainly, it's still an ongoing predicament.

I've been in a dilemma for the past couple of months. In reality, all this started years ago. But... it's only become a problem in the last few months.

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible, especially at the beginning. If I give myself the freedom to go into deep details, this can and will turn into a novel, subdivided into chapters and all.

I met Raymond (fictitious name) about 6 years ago. We went to the same school, and we became friends. I knew I liked him from the beginning, but never once hinted at him what I felt. We were simply buddies. As time went on, our friendship grew, and we became closer. Again, I never felt too strongly about liking him, so I never revealed anything.
This changed in the fall of 2007. All of a sudden, I felt a need to express what I felt. It all began with subtle hints, with me telling him that I wanted to talk to him, to me saying that I missed, all the way to me telling him directly that he was cute and that I liked him. It was all a gradual process.
He always took it well. He told me from the beginning he had no problem with me liking him, but basically, that nothing would ever come out of it. Throughout our friendship, I knew he was straight, and up until that point in 2007, he assumed the same about me (I would say I'm bi).
In November of 2007, he moved away about an hour North of where I live. It was sad to see him go, but, I knew it could've been much worse, such as him moving across the country.
He's going to university there, and lives with his parents. Ever since he moved there, our conversations on the phone and online became more frequent. We planned on getting together, and he came to pick me up several times, so I could spend the weekend at his house. Throughout all this, however, my feelings for him only got stronger. I couldn't help it... I was falling for him, more and more each day.
A few of the times we have been together, I have touched his body, massaged his back, and occasionally felt his manhood. I have told him at the heat of the moment on those occasions that I want something more with him. He has told me that that's not possible, unfortunately. On one of my visits there, before I left, we were talking about this, and he closed the conversation by saying that something could be possible the next time I was there. But a big "maybe". He told me not to get upset if nothing happens.
With all of these things happening, I wanted him more than life itself.
Indeed, this grew to the point where no one else in my vision of life existed, but him. I started getting more aggressive wanting his attention: wanting to talk to him more often, getting sad and upset when he didn't answer my calls or return my text messages. In the end, he got upset himself at times, with my behaviour. In retrospect, I understand him, and side with him. At that moment, I couldn't see that, though. All I saw and thought was that I wanted him, and had to have him.
I didn't realize that in the process I risked losing a friend.

At the end of August of last year, I brought up this issue once again, feeling very depressed. He was honest with me, as usual, and told me that unfortunately, he could be no more than a friend to me; that it hurt him to see me suffering, but that he couldn't much, but be there for me, as a friend. Being in the state I found myself at the moment, I couldn't accept what he was telling me. I told him that I was going to keep my distance from him and not talk to him. He told me to give him a call when I felt ready to talk to him again, and that he would answer. I took that to be another sign of his rejection, and let him go. That night, for the first time in my life, I cried myself to sleep; I cried, for the first time, for a guy. And I cried the following night... and the one after that. What started as a simple crush had become a fatal obsession.

I was in a lot of emotional pain. I thought to myself that I had to learn to live without him; I had to learn to forget him. And I tried. For the following three months, I had no contact with him, whatsoever. I figured that if talking to him was bringing me pain, I had to get rid of the cause.

I never regretted anything I did or said, because I took this as a learning experience. I had never gone through something like that before. That is, liking someone so much that I'd cry for him. I've had my share of adventures and relationships growing up, so it's not like I had never experienced emotional attachment before. I had, but never like this. I've had a "friend with benefits", to use the current term, in the past, but never once did I feel attached, emotionally. What I'm trying to say is that, if it was just about the sex, I could've find that, if I wanted to. But, with Raymond, it went beyond that.

By the beginning of November, 2008, I felt I had come to terms with accepting Raymond as simply a friend. So I contacted him. I can say that he received me with open arms, and we immediately resumed our friendship, no questions asked. Though he didn't bring it up, I told him that I was OK with just being friends, that I had done a lot of thinking, and I had come to the conclusion that I didn't want to lose a good friend, it didn't make sense.

Not two weeks had passed since our reconciliation when those feelings I thought I had left behind, suddenly came back. Those same sentiments that had brought so much heartbreak, so much pain. They had returned.
Without hesitation, I started making comments to Raymond, like I had in the past; albeit jokingly, he noticed my intentions right away. He told me about it, but I didn't pay much attention to his remarks.

One time, I called him, and he was upset. He said a few things in a tone I didn't like, such as not to call him as often, and not to get mad if he can't talk. For the first time now, I talked back, you could say. I told him that if he thought I was annoying him, I could leave him alone for good. We said a few other things, and he said he would call me the next day. This was around the end of November.
That day, I was resigned to say good-bye to him... for good. I had thought about what I was going to say, and was ready to let him go from my life once and for all.
When he called, I wasn't depressed, I wasn't sad; I was mad. To my surprise, when I confronted him, he was very apologetic about the whole thing. He said he was sorry, that he didn't mean anything he had said. This caught me off guard, and didn't know how to react.

That night, I realized something important. We stayed on the phone until 4am. So many things were said. We discussed everything that ever needed to be discussed. He told me how he thinks of me as his best friend; that he likes talking to me because he can talk to me about everything and anything. I realized I had a very good friend him, even if he couldn't ever be my boyfriend. I, once again, reminded him of what I had felt and felt for him. While he gave the same answers than before, when I asked him if something could happen some time in the future, he said that he can't predict the future. His point was that me trying to make things happen, isn't going to help (except draw us apart, maybe), if something happens in the future, it will happen. Basically, that I should treat him like a friend, without expecting anything "special". He never said, "No, nothing will ever happen". What I just explained was his reply.
This conversation was clearly heard by the ears of someone still blinded by the infatuation, though


Moving the focus to the present day, I feel like we're playing a game of, I don't know, the cat and the mouse. We are happy one day, then he'll say something that bothers me, I get upset, he calls me on it, he gets upset, I call him on it, he recognizes his mistake, and we're back together, you could say. Or, I do something he doesn't like, and, etc, etc. It's a roller coaster. In the end, though, we always make up, if we're mad. Yeah, sometimes it does feel we're together, as a couple, even though we're just friends, and have never done anything sexually.

I do recognize that I'm bitchy, at times, and that's a character flaw of mine. I do, understand, for example, that it'll make him mad if I try to talk about "us", when he's with his brother or a friend, especially when I insist.
That's a mistake I make time and time again. I've thought about it, and it's definitely insecurity. I would say, not so much insecurity about myself, but, rather, I'm insecure about having him. This is a paradox, because I've never had him, so how can I lose him?
Yes, sometimes, I do ask myself why I even bother with his, when it makes me suffer, when it annoys him, at times. I suppose it's all worth it when we make up, and we're able to see each other, or talk happily. It's almost like a drug.

I've thought that if I could replace him with someone else that interests me, I can move on from this seemingly never-ending chapter in my life; that I could finally see him, and be happy having him as a friend; hanging out with him, and not desiring him physically.

I guess I'm open to the idea that something can happen. And I'd be ecstatic if it did. It's true, even though the situation not as bad as it was a few months ago, I still desire him. I no longer feel like I want to jump off a bridge if I can't have him. So that's a good thing.

Sometimes we know the right answer to our problems. But, at times, we need that slap in the face; someone to tell us and confirm what we are thinking. Hence why I'm posting here.

I'll finalize by telling you guys the truth: Yes, I do want him, and would be very happy if something could happen between us. At the same time, I'd be happy if I could see him as a friend... just a friend.

Indeed, I'm confused.

Thanks for reading.

-Vlad

 

[Corny]

He sounds like a great guy - except that for some reason he is trying to leave a little hope in for you. I hope that this is just his way of trying to be nice, but it awfully looks a bit manipulating, because he doesn't want to lose you, either.
Despite his hints that something might happen you have to get this out of your head. Nothing SHOULD happen between you, or you most likely will lose what you have and had.
Take another timeout if that helps you, do more stuff with other friends. Don't take him for granted, don't demand his friendship, work for it and nuture it. Even good friends should not be co-dependant.

 

[KaraBulut]

Welcome to JUB and congrats on your first post.

Your friend is a wonderful guy. It's no wonder you have deep and complicated feelings toward him.

And for the record- it doesn't just happen between gay and straight guys. The same thing happens between gay friends, too.

We often get into these cycles where, like a dog chasing a car, we repeat behaviors thinking that- well maybe this time- the outcome will be different.

You have a wonderful friend and you're trying to convert that friendship into something that it can never be.

You already know the answer. You need to move on. You need to find other friends. You need to find a real relationship.

As long as you hold on to this situation that will never be, you're missing out on finding love and happiness with someone who can love you back.

Will the feeling ever go away? No.

Will you learn to live with these feelings, enjoy them and understand that they're part of the special friendship that you have with this guy? Well, that's up to you.

 

[bankside]

Whether it is positive or negative, whether you want it or not, he doesn't want you to be just "his experiment."

He accepts you, and he cares for you, and for that reason, he wants you to find someone who can be in your life fully in every way. He's probably sad that he can't be your boyfriend, but he knows he is not that person. Listen to your friend. He will be happy for you when you find the right person, but listen to him when he says he is not the right person. He cares for you too much to pretend he is, and it would be sad if he felt like he had to go through the motions, knowing it would not be the same as what you could offer, or what you deserve. He doesn't want to stand in the way of someone else who could give you that.

That's what I think.

 

[Lube]

These situations are so hard to interpret. We have only what you say to go on. We don't know his feelings. We can't see you interact or hear the inflections in your voices, or even to know his exact words. There are so many non-verbal clues that we cannot see or hear.

That being said, he clearly self-identifies as straight. That means he's out of range. (I wonder about straight guys who chat with their gay friends until 4 am on a regular basis, but whatever.)

He says he's not interested. He lives an hour away. What do you do with the rest of your time? How many gay friends do you have locally? How much do you socialize? He's killing any ability you have to find a man who wants you.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

I think he's done about as much for you as any straight guy can do for his gay friend. He's let you massage him, feel him up, tell him at great length how you feel about him, going on for a year or more.

And yet -- nothing. It's hard to escape the conclusion that he actually is straight.

I think a lot of us have been there -- obsessed with a guy we know we can't have. It's not a lot of fun, obviously.

I really don't know what advice to give you except maybe to try seeing things from his point of view. Clearly he values your friendship, doesn't want to hurt your feelings even when you've crossed the line.

On some level, he may be flattered or intrigued by your attraction to him. But I really don't think this is a case of "bi-curious." I think the guy is straight, period. If anything were going to happen, it would have happened by now.

So hopefully you can learn from this and move on. You might have to stop communicating with him to really get him out of your head.

It would be nice to tell you that you'll eventually get over him. But how would I know that? Sometimes obsessions last for years. But I'll hope for the best for you.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

Thank you, guys. Reading your input about the situation does help me to put things into perspective.

He sounds like a great guy - except that for some reason he is trying to leave a little hope in for you.

Yes, he is a great person. Throughout everything that has happened, I can say for sure that he is a good friend. He's had the power, just like myself, to say at anytime "I'm not putting up with this anymore, good bye!", yet, he's never said or done anything of that sort. Even through our ups and downs, he's been there.

This is why I say I'd be happy with either outcome: either kissing him, while holding him in my arms, or, being able to see him as simply a friend. I sometimes think that if I hadn't developed these deep feelings for him, we'd be almost like brothers; caring for each other, doing things together, hell, even being roommates in the future, but without the anticipation of wanting something else to happen; simply, enjoying life together as two good friends.

However, as you guys well know, emotional attachment is not something you can release on command. Indeed, I've thought, among the many things that have crossed my mind when I have felt down because of this issue in the past, that if I could take something and wake up one day without desiring him, I would do it. I would do it, because while I want this to bring me joy and pleasure with him, time goes on, and I never see the light of day; my version of it, that is.

Yes, this hurts me, in the end. Those nearly three months I spent without having any contact with him did help. Before, I felt nothing else was worth it if I couldn't have him. These days, I'm simply sad by not having him, but, all I think is... too bad. So I have made progress.

About the hope he leaves in me, that's something else that gives me fuel to keep this going. Sometimes, he'll be ambiguous, or, other times, he'll be tolerant of me liking him, while other times, he'll get mad over anything "gay" I imply. I don't know what causes this change in him, but, I do know that, like I said, if I didn't like him this way, none of this would occur.

As an example, sometimes I act jealous when he talks about a guy friend, or any guy. He will then make up excuses, such as "I don't even talk to him that often; I talk more often to you." This, of course, only caters to the fairy tale that lives in my mind. It makes me feel as if we're a couple, though we're certainly not.
The first time I told him I was interested in being involved with him sexually, his reply was, "I would need to be pretty drunk for something like that." However, I have much respect for him, and even when we have slept in the same room together, I've never dared to touch him when he's not even conscious. If something were to happen, I want it to be because he chose to do it; because it's his will that something happens, not because I took advantage of an altered mind state he is in.
After that, of course, as we became more involved, the narrative on the original post explains what transpired.
Another thing, for instance, he's coming down in about two-three weeks to pick me up, so I can spend several days at his house, before school starts again. I've told him a couple of times that I prefer to talk or be alone with him; to have private conversations. He has a younger brother who goes to a different university, and only comes home for the holidays. Raymond said he wanted me to go to his place after his brother had left, which is why he's coming to pick me up in a few weeks.

Despite his hints that something might happen you have to get this out of your head. Nothing SHOULD happen between you, or you most likely will lose what you have and had.
Take another timeout if that helps you, do more stuff with other friends. Don't take him for granted, don't demand his friendship, work for it and nuture it. Even good friends should not be co-dependant.

You have a wonderful friend and you're trying to convert that friendship into something that it can never be.

You already know the answer. You need to move on. You need to find other friends. You need to find a real relationship.

That being said, he clearly self-identifies as straight. That means he's out of range.

That's very good advice. Thank you.

He says he's not interested. He lives an hour away. What do you do with the rest of your time? How many gay friends do you have locally? How much do you socialize? He's killing any ability you have to find a man who wants you.

Yes, you're right. I do have a few gay friends. I do have a life outside of Raymond. And that's the whole thing that's not really normal. Throughout this time, I've had my "fun" with other people, but, at the end of the day, Raymond is the only one worthy enough to reserve the space in my mind. I will admit, in the past, when I was at the peak of my depression because of this, I denied others the opportunity to get to know me, or, I refused to go out with other gay people because, in my mind and spirit, only Raymond existed for me. This sounds border-line psychotic, I see it; almost as if it would require psychological intervention to resolve. I have gotten better, and that extreme case is no longer so.

Like I said on my first post, if it's sex I was looking for, I can find that, if I wanted to. I have always been very picky of who I'm with, but, if all I wanted was just to someone to "get off" with, I could've found that already. This makes things worse, not better, because clearly, an emotional relationship is seemingly the last thing on the horizon view with Raymond.

Whether it is positive or negative, whether you want it or not, he doesn't want you to be just "his experiment."

He accepts you, and he cares for you, and for that reason, he wants you to find someone who can be in your life fully in every way. He's probably sad that he can't be your boyfriend, but he knows he is not that person. Listen to your friend. He will be happy for you when you find the right person, but listen to him when he says he is not the right person. He cares for you too much to pretend he is, and it would be sad if he felt like he had to go through the motions, knowing it would not be the same as what you could offer, or what you deserve. He doesn't want to stand in the way of someone else who could give you that.

That's what I think.

I left this for last because it hits the nail on the head. Yes, I believe this is what is happening; I believe this is true. The only dilemma left is for me to let go off that attachment, which has been the hardest part so far. Thank you, bankside.

If anything, just writing about this has made me reflect on many things, so that's something accomplished already.
I thank you guys for the time taken to read my post, and to reply to it with good advice. I truly appreciate it, and it does make a difference, believe me.

I'll come back and add any details as needed. However, I won't be posting daily or weekly updates, like it's the model on other threads, unless it's something quite major that drastically changes the path of this story.

Thank you once more.

-Vlad

P.S. Reading these forums, I've gotten to recognize some of the regulars. Let me just say that I love Kyanimal. I simply love his uplifting and positive posting style with all those smileys. ^^

 

[bankside]

you're welcome.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

you're welcome.

^^

I do welcome any further input, commentary, confirmation or rebuttal about what I have written. I do read carefully and consider everything that's advised to me.
I did explain the situation to a bi friend of mine, but he couldn't really relate. So I come to you guys.

Thanks.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

Hello, there, everyone.
I said in my original post I wouldn't be updating this daily, like other posters. However, I didn't say anything about updates every couple of months. ^^

I'll go with the obligatory preface for updates: A lot has happened since I last wrote on this thread.
After thinking about the words that were written for me here, I did come to a few realizations, like I had stated previously. I realized, for one, that what I was doing with Raymond was destroying our friendship, and that, it would eventually, end it, if I continued.
I took that advice well, and I reminded myself that I was lucky to have him as a friend, with everything that had happened in the past. However, seeing that I wouldn't be able to be with him like I wanted, and in a bit of a delusional state, I brought up the very same things that had upset him in the past. That is, asking him whether he and I could have something, and when he said no, me looking for an explanation why not. Indeed, I was very blind last year because of this.

I had that conversation with him around the second week of January. We were supposed to meet, but we didn't. He said it would be best if we didn't for that time. In response, I said quite a few things I wouldn't have said before. I sent him a text message saying he wasn't worth it, that I couldn't believe I was wasting my time with him. We texted each other a few times back and forth during the week like that. I, not so much feeling heartbroken, but rather upset. Something I hadn't felt before. I felt anger. I supposed it had to do with coming to terms with the fact that I wasn't going to have him. Indeed, that was becoming a reality, and I didn't take it well.
In the end, though, it was a good thing. During that week, after exchanging numerous text messages, he said that probably we shouldn't be friends because all we did was fight or argue. This, of course, was completely my fault, because of what I talked about.

A few days passed, and I contacted him again. I thought about what I had done, and I felt very guilty. I reread the responses on here, and once again, I told myself that I'm no one to change anyone. He appreciates me as a friend, and I should be content with that. Obsessing over having something with him was devastative not only to our friendship, but also, and especially, to my mental well-being.
Once more, I came to terms that he was only ever going to be my friend. But this time, it was different. I suppose it had to do with nearly losing him, when we didn't talk for those few days. For the very first time, it was him who had decided we shouldn't talk because of what I said. Once before, like I explain on the original post, it was me who had taken the decision to walk away from him.
This time, it was him.

We eventually talked, on the phone, and he told me that he was just planning on talking to me for like a month. So things calmed down. I told him that I thought he hated me, and he replied that no matter what, he won't ever hate me. So, there we made up indeed. I meant every word I said to him. I told him that I realized what I was doing was simply destroying our relationship. I realized that was happening... yet I couldn't stop. I was honest with him about everything. Mostly, he was aware of all of it. I said to him that if I had wished I hadn't developed this for him, because it makes things harder for the both of us. I told him that if I could drink something one night, and wake up the next without wanting him, I would've done it in a hearbeat. Why? Because I knew he wanted simply to be friends, yet I kept pushing this obsession. He said he understood. That he simply felt upset at that point.
In a way, I told him, us going through this only shows how strong our relationship has become. Indeed so.

Something else that made reflect upon this... I saw on a TV soap opera, a case where a woman had fallen for one of her female friends. She befriended the other woman, treated her nicely, sent her flowers anonymously, in hope that they would be together. When the other woman found out that her friend had a crush on her all along, she went ballistic, saying that her friend was being nice simply "to get in her pants" eventually. In the end, they sorted things and out, and remained friends.

This made think about Raymond. Maybe this is what he felt. He felt that, maybe, I didn't appreciate him as a friend, but that all I was interested in was "to get in his pants".

So.. this experience completely changed me. During those two weeks, I felt I hit a milestone in my life. I felt I finally understood everything that had happened before. Before, I couldn't have Raymond, and I asked, "But why not?!". Now, I can think with a straight head, and know Raymond is simply my friend, and say to myself "I simply can't him that way. Period".

Sometimes, I will become a little blue, and will start thinking about a few if's, and's, or but's. But, I always bring myself up now.

One of the things I told Raymond was that I was going to try to move on from him, so that he and I could have better relationship. I said that I would still like him, and it would take time to get over that, but, I no longer have expectation that something must happen between us when we get together. That was what was most devastative in the past.

Things have been well, ever since then. I have opened myself to seeing other guys, and have seen a few. In the meantime, I still feel something for Raymond, I won't lie. But I can control this feeling, whereas before, it simply blinded me and I acted and talked stupidly.

I still tell Raymond that I'll give him a message when I see him, and all that stuff. I asked him to email me some pictures of him, and he surprised me with them one day. During the past three weeks or so, he has called more often. Last week, we talked five or six times, with about two of those conversations lasting over an hour. Sometimes, I'll act semi-jealous when he talks to me about a few of his guy friends. But all is good, in the end.

My dilemma now is... for the past few weeks, we have been wanting to get together, and hang out. We have planned that he'll come to pick me on a Friday, and I'll stay at his house until the following Monday. To be honest, I have been putting it off, saying that such and such week doesn't work for me. On one hand, I definitely want to see him. On the other, I'm not too sure how I'll handle it being with him for 3-4 days. I'm afraid I'll start lusting over him.

I did say this experience had given something to learn in life, which I realized last month. Having said that, I don't want to go back to the days of crying and wanting to jump off a bridge because I can't have him. No.

Things are great as they are right now, and I want them to continue. I have accepted him as a friend, and it shall remain like that.
I understand what he used to tell me, about not being able to predict the future. We're friends... I shouldn't be expecting anything else from him. If something were to change, then we'll let fate take its course.

Where I am right now... I have to confirm to him whether to come pick me up this Friday. Like I said, deep inside, I really want to see him. Another part of me doesn't know. :-/
I'm thinking I should tell him we should just hang out for one day, without me spending the weekend at his place.

What do you guys think, or what advice do you have, for the way things are right now?

Thank you for reading. This gives me a chance to "vent", and say what's in my mind.

-VLAD

 

[KaraBulut]

Given the tentative nature of the relationship and your feelings, it might be better if you passed on the weekend stayover for now.

Instead, just plan a short visit- maybe a movie, dinner or going to a sporting event. It will take a while for the two of you to put things back together again and it's better to start with short periods of hanging out (and events that don't involve sleeping under the same roof) for a while.

In the meantime, continue to date and look for a guy who can return your romantic feelings.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

Thanks, Kara for that advice.

As you can read from my posts, I'm a pretty reasonable person, and I tend to be my own «psychologist», in a way, most of the time. However, it's helpful to expose in detail one's problems to others.

That Friday, almost two weeks ago now, I did meet with Raymond. Before he left his place, I told him on the phone that I wasn't sure if I would go back with him to spend the weekend at his house. He said it was OK, that he would come down anyway and we would spend the evening together.
I prepared my small suitcase (with extra clothes, toothbrush, etc), and took it with me... I told him, just in case I did decide to go, because I wasn't sure.
So he picked me up at around 4pm, and we had a blast. I had told him quite a few times before that I wanted some pics of him. He said he would eventually send me some, but never did. He did send me one a few weeks ago (I mentioned this on my last post). Well, he gave me a CD with pictures of him, some alone, some with his family, of events from last year. I was pleasantly surprised, and it did make me happy that he took the time to do that.
We went to a park; we walked together. We went to a museum, we grabbed something to eat, then at night, went to this cool mall-like place open at night. We were going to see a movie, but the one we wanted to see was sold-out, and no others interested us. So we walked around, and we really got a chance to talk.

In the end, I decided not to go over to his place. He said it was OK, that he could come again during Spring break in a few weeks, and we could hang out again, and then, I could go to his house. I was happy with that.

During the whole day, I was simply focused on having a good time with him, and I really did. Not once did the thought of wanting him or desiring him crossed my mind. When he was taking me home, however, after I had said that I wouldn't go to his place, I started getting these feelings again. I wanted him.

In a way, this made me glad I had chosen not to go to his house, because I knew I would feelings like that, just like I had predicted.
I began touching his arm as he drove, and I told him that it was hard for me to resist that. I stared at him, and yes, I did want him. What I hadn't felt all day, was coming out now. I said to him that it was so much better having him in person. He turned to me and smiled. Then I said that I felt bad, somewhat, because I really wanted to spend the weekend with him. Even though he was driving, he looked at me and smiled everytime. I caressed his arm, his shoulder, though I was really trying to contain myself. I asked him if he minded if I did that. He said no, as he smiled, and added that he had no problem with me doing that as long as I didn't start thinking that it would change his mind.

Upon hearing that, a switch turned on in my mind. It's funny, but all the advice that I have read here on this forum, flashed before me. I remembered everything I've typed on this thread, and everything I've read on all the others; all the reasons and moments I didn't want to go back to feeling.

I know what Raymond meant with what he said. I didn't ask him to elaborate or anything; I simply sat there for a moment, awestruck, remembering all this.

I remembered that he is friend, and I wanted to see him as that. Like I said, all these moments that I've lived with him flashed in front of me, and I immediately withdrew my hand from his arm. This lead me to tell him that I appreciated him as a friend. I told him not to think that I expect something from him [meaning, in a physical or sexual way], that I'm happy we're able to have a good time together. I added, as well, that I didn't want to change him; if I fell for him in the first place, it's because of the way he is. I told him that if he were any different, I probably wouldn't have liked him in the first place. We both giggled.
Then, I said that when he finds someone who can make him happy, that person will be fortunate to have him, and I'll be just as happy for him when that does happen. He then told me about this girl that he likes at his school.
I did not feel jealous, I did not feel upset or depressed. I felt happy.

When he stopped in front of my house to drop me off, it was like one of those moments at the end of a movie, where you see the happy culmination of numerous dramatic events that led the main character to suffer, but, is happy at the end right before the credits start rolling. That's exactly how I felt.
Just talking to him, and seeing him smile, giggle. Just noticing that he was having a good time as much as I was.
We said our good-byes, I waved at him, went inside the house, and he drove away.

As happy as I was getting home, it didn't take long for me to cry.
Why, you would ask? Mmh... I was surprised myself. Having had so much fun during the day, why would I cry, suddenly?
This was an interesting emotion. I felt a need to cry, and I did. But, this wasn't a cry caused by sadness, rejection or depression. This was the type of cry you experience when, sadly, a person close to you dies. I would know, for my grandfather passed away not too long ago.
I was crying because I felt it as true that Raymond was simply going to be my friend. It's as if all these illusions and fantasies I had about him had died, and I wouldn't have them again. Like when you cry the deceased, I cried knowing these fantasies had been buried, while, knowing they're in a better place. As I cried, I smiled and giggled, as I had realized (something I tend to forget, at times) what a good friend I have in this person. It was mostly a cry of relief. I felt good by the time I was going to sleep. I truly see myself having him in my life as I age... as I turn 40... 50... and beyond.

...

That was almost two weeks ago. Ever since then, things have been the way they were before we got together this time, or better. We talk often on the phone. He calls me almost everyday after one of his classes. We are getting together in another two weeks, like I mentioned. We're even planning what we'll do for his birthday, and a few things during the summer.
I do tell him that we would have so much more fun if we still lived in the same city. As stated on my original post, I didn't start wanting him until one month before he moved.
When we talk, sometimes I will say things like "I'm so looking forward to seeing you again", "I want to give you a massage" or "it makes me smile when you call me". In the past, statements like those would've bothered him, and would've probably kept him from wanting to talk to me for a while, but not now anymore. So something has changed... for the better.

I can say that I'm happy with the way things are currently. I won't hide the fact that I still like him. But, like I said on my previous post, I no longer feel that something must happen between the both of us. I can stand back, and appreciate our friendship. Before, when this all started, I couldn't do that. I was simply fixated on the fact that something had to happen, otherwise I would die.
Since he has never been an expressive, eloquent kind of guy, I can see, from his actions, that he appreciates me just as much. And, I'm happy with that.

I can't say what will happen, but, I can say with certainty that I now have a handle on the whole situation. I said it once, and I'll say it again... I've learned so much through this experience. This has definitely brought Raymond and me closer together. I am enjoying where we stand right now.

At the same time, I am keeping my options open. I am talking to a couple of other guys.

...

I was hesitant to update this thread, but it helps me to sort my thoughts, as I said before. Maybe I should consider writing a journal; more than asking for advice here, I seem to be simply disclosing what happens to me. Nonetheless, I will read, and appreciate, anything you guys say.

This issue, as it seems, is never-ending, and will be perpetually changing. I wouldn't want to keep bumping this thread everytime something ensues. Perhaps when and if an issue arises, I shall make a new thread. We'll see.

Thanks for reading.

-Vlad

 

[bwbw86]

wow. i really liked reading that. I, like most guys, can relate to your story. I'm really happy that you got things sorted out man. I know how hard it is to think straight when you're caught in a situation like that. Good stuff.

Honestly, thanks for posting this. I think more people need to read what you've written.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

[N.B. It was not my intention to bump this long post. I had begun this as a new post, linking to this, my original chronicle, containing all the background information. Alas, I can't post any links because I don't have 25 posts. :-/ So, I am forced to continue to elongate this thread. I apologize. ]

To continue where I left off last time... things have been going very well between Raymond and me. I like the way things are, and I don't really have any doubts about what we have. Nonetheless, I would like some input, opinions or thoughts about the issue.


As my last post says, our plan of getting together and me spending a few days with him did go through. He came to pick me up a Saturday morning, about three weeks ago now, and I spent 5 days with him. As usual, just seeing him in the car as I got on excited me. We had a blast around the city, going to a museum and to the movie theatre. In the evening, we went to one of his cousin's birthday party. Afterwards, we went to his house.

He had told me his parents would be going away for the weekend. He said that that would be nice, because I had told him I wanted to spend time alone with him.

The following morning, on Sunday, his parents were already gone. During the day, we played video games, walked to the beach, to the park, to get coffee.
Our plans did change at the last minute because three days before he came to get me, he sprained his ankle playing tennis. So, we had to cut our plans short, as we had planned several outings.

We had already talked about me massaging his injured foot (nothing too bad really, he was able to walk and all, just not too much). So I did that when he was on the computer many times. I would set his foot on my thigh, and massage it. Even though it was just a foot, I was really enjoying it. I don't have what you would consider a "foot fetish", but being with Raymond, it felt like I did have one.
I also massaged his other foot, and his neck, chest and shoulders while he played on the computer. This was all with his consent. That is, I didn't just get up and start touching him out of nowhere. No. I told him I wanted to do it, and he smiled and said to go ahead. He even suggested that we get on his bed later on so I could massage him in a better position.

I did that quite a lot. Even going downstairs and watching TV, I would play with his feet and legs. To be honest, I loved touching and feeling his hairy legs; it really worked me up. I even told him that several times... that I was truly enjoying doing that... that he was amazing, and I felt excited. Though he didn't say much to that, his smile, as we turned our heads to look each other in the eye, was enough for me.

I must say, before I continue, that I went to his house with the idea in my mind that I would enjoy the time I spent with him. I mean, not forcing or expecting anything "extra". Rather, just spend some time with him, and be happy.
Something I realized through our hard times was that my error in the past was me wanting and expecting that something happen between the both of us. If it didn't happen, I tormented myself with thoughts, asking myself "Why?". In essence, I wanted him to understand and accept my feelings, but, I couldn't accept and respect his.
Getting out of that thought process and instead enjoying what I do have made everything much better.

And so, with this mind, I had a good time with Raymond. The highlight of my stay (with regards to this, anyway) is the night before I left.

I was massaging his shoulders while he sat at the computer, and he suggested that we could go on his bed. When we did, we watched some stuff on TV and Youtube. He laid down on the bed, and he asked me what I wanted to do first... his legs/feet or his back. I proceeded to "massage" his feet and legs. I say "massage" because more than that, I was caressing him, and he knew that. I looked at him occasionally, and we smiled at each other. While we watched TV, I caressed his feet, his legs, and his thighs. With my hands, I went from his thighs all the way up to his abdomen, under his boxers, and even touching his pubes a few times. I wanted to do only what he felt comfortable doing, and I didn't want to force anything, like I said... so I didn't touch err any other parts "accidentally", as much as I would've wanted to. I simply enjoyed holding his thighs, just having my hands under his boxers. We took a few pauses, got up, but, we came back to the bed and continued where we were.
He then turned face down, and I "massaged" his back. I just laid there next to him, moving my hand on his back, while we watched TV. This went on for a while.
Eventually, we went to sleep. Going by the advice I read once from a forum poster here... sex is something that happens naturally... it's like a bomb waiting to explode... you just feel it. Hence, I didn't want to force anything, like I stated, even though we talked about things like drinking together, I chose not to. In my mind, he had already made me happy.

The following day, I once again played with his feet and legs. Then, before I left, he reminded me about a picture I had told him about. Indeed, I had told him that I wanted a picture from him so I could carry it in my wallet. So while we printed some maps to a place we would go to before he dropped me off, he remembered about the picture. We looked at some pictures on the computer, and between the of us, we chose one, which he printed, and I put in my wallet. It's still in there as of right now; I look at it, occasionally.

Since then, things have been going wonderfully. We still talk often on the phone, we text each other. Everytime he calls me, I get very happy.
While I do talk and see other guys, no one holds my interest like Raymond does... no one makes me smile like he does. I tell him that sometimes... that when he calls me, I can't help but smile the rest of the day. I said to him a few days ago, "You're the only one that makes me forget any problems I may have, and the only one who can make me smile this much".

I'm enjoying what we have. I don't know if it's my attitude change (that is, no wanting to jump in the middle of traffic or off a bridge 'cause I'm not having sex with him, like the first post on this thread explains)... or if something changed in him, but whereas he would get annoyed when I expressed my interest for him, that's not the case anymore. We talk about several times a week (I usually let him call me), and text each other in between. At least once a week, we talk at night for about an hour or more; the rest of the time, it's more like 10-15 min. conversations during the day.

Now, I would like your opinions... your input. What do you guys think of all this? Simply put, I like what he and I have. Not being the same person I was last year (i.e. refer to first post), I'm happy with the way things are, or just having him as a friend like we have been.

Thank you for reading.

-Vlad

 

[rareboy]

Well, I'll bet you're relieved at how all this turned out for both of you.

Isn't it amazing what a more mature approach to friendship and respect for each other can yield?