Complicated situation, I'd love to hear your thoughts

[bruce379]

Ok so today we hung out more. I joined him in the library and read while he studied, and then afterwards he bought the tickets for the play. Since he bought the tickets, I'm gonna pay for us to eat Saturday (he doesn't know yet). Afterwards he took us out for ice cream and we went to this Christmas thing our school had. Afterwards i walked him to his car and we talked for a while.

We talked about a bunch of stuff and a few things i didn't like, such as the fact that he is neutral towards marriage equality, and that he doesn't like holding hands and kissing in public because he knows other people get uncomfortable. I told him my stance on the matters.

He also told me about the big thing he had with the guy who died. The story broke my heart i wanted to cry. Even thinking about it makes me want to cry. And in combination of today and yesterday i realized that he has gone through so much Hell in his life on top of losing someone he loves.

So today i realized this. What i thought i really liked was this image i had if him. BUT i still have strong feelings about the real him that I've gotten to know a bit more. Maybe not as strong as before but somehow this feels a lot more real. I also am pretty sure that he likes me and that he knows that i like him.

I'm going to let things unfold naturally and not push. Whatever happens happens.

If he doesn't want to hold hands in public, don't. If he doesn't want to kiss in public, don't. At this point in the game, don't make him more uncomfortable than is necessary. Make him trust you first and comfortable with you first. You're not trying to make instant coffee, dear boy. Follow your own advice: let things unfold naturally and not push. I think, given enough time, and patience, the two of you will build a more intimate relationship.

 

[dragon08]

I wasn't trying to kiss him and hold his hands, he just said that when he's in a relationship he doesn't like to because it makes people uncomfortable seeing two guys. I told him that I don't see it as any of their business. It was just a discussion.

 

[bruce379]

I wasn't trying to kiss him and hold his hands, he just said that when he's in a relationship he doesn't like to because it makes people uncomfortable seeing two guys. I told him that I don't see it as any of their business. It was just a discussion.

Oh, I misunderstood. Sorry.

I'm inferring from your profile that you're in San Antonio, TX. I don't know exactly how the scene there goes. He could be doing it because it might be safer for both of you not to display affection publicly I guess. I'm in NYC and everything here is basically, meh, who cares. But not everyplace is safe to hold hands, not even here sometimes, in isolated instances.

He also has a point which I respect. Sometimes, people become aggressive against gay guys because some guys are too in your face. I suppose this isn't just for gay guys but even straight couples. I mean, I was riding the subway one time and this teenage couple (boy-girl) were acting obnoxious where most of the people were middle-aged and old people and even I felt a bit disturbed by their lack of decorum. So there you go. It appears your friend has a good sense of manners.

I still agree with you though that holding hands is between the two of you and other people need to get over it. But acceptance is getting there.

 

[Rolyo85]

I wasn't trying to kiss him and hold his hands, he just said that when he's in a relationship he doesn't like to because it makes people uncomfortable seeing two guys. I told him that I don't see it as any of their business. It was just a discussion.

Well that's an excuse to mask his discomfort at being seen doing stuff like that with a guy. Be aware of it and decide how to proceed from the knowledge that he isn't entirely comfortable being out yet.

 

[dragon08]

Here in San Antonio it isn't really dangerous to be seen holding hands, especially at school. With my ex we'd walk around a lot holding hands, the worst we ever got were confused glances. But never violence or animosity. I think we once had a rude waitress.

I believe him when he said it was about not making others uncomfortable. He is catholic, (I am too, but I disagree with some teachings) so i think that half of it is from that and the other half from the fact that he's not completely gay that he's bi.

I don't know i feel about hearing his opinion on this. I'm gonna let things keep happening but I'm questioning if we are compatible it not. I'll keep going on dates with him to see.

 

[bruce379]

Here in San Antonio it isn't really dangerous to be seen holding hands, especially at school. With my ex we'd walk around a lot holding hands, the worst we ever got were confused glances. But never violence or animosity. I think we once had a rude waitress.

I believe him when he said it was about not making others uncomfortable. He is catholic, (I am too, but I disagree with some teachings) so i think that half of it is from that and the other half from the fact that he's not completely gay that he's bi.

I don't know i feel about hearing his opinion on this. I'm gonna let things keep happening but I'm questioning if we are compatible it not. I'll keep going on dates with him to see.

There is never that person that is perfect for you or for anyone for that matter.
This is your price of admission, courtesy of Dan Savage:

Check out his other pieces of advice regarding relationships . Very funny and very true:

 

[dragon08]

Just thought I'd let you guys know i have a big date with him tonight. Over the past few days we've had a bunch of mini dates almost every day. We're kinda taking it slow though, i haven't kissed him (half because I'm a little sick half because I don't know what he's comfortable with) and neither of us really have a place to go back to afterwards. I live in a dorm with a roommate, and he's staying at a friends for the next few days. I still really like him. Wish me luck

 

[bruce379]

Good luck!

 

[Ambition92]

I can't wait to hear details! I hope everything goes well.

 

[dragon08]

We had a good time. We went to dinner then the play, which was awesome. Afterwards we ended up going to a gay club in town we danced and stuff. He drank and we got back to my room no roommate or anything to worry about then he lays down on my futon asks me to give him a back massage so i do and then...

He passes out. Ugh i didn't even get a makeout session. Maybe he'll come to in the night or something.

 

[bruce379]

omg how tragic this should be made into a comedy skit somehow...

don't get mad. i mean that in a nice way. it's just so damn funny how you broke it for us...

it suddenly reminded me of the time i had a hookup with this hot college kid built like a wrestler... we had a great time together and after sex he just absent-mindedly mentioned he wish he had a massage. and i replied that i gave a good one. he took my offer and he was fucking enjoying it (no happy ending for him. he already had his happy ending before the massage; but i digress) as i was finishing, this hot muscled jock was lying on his stomach and started to snore - damn, i was good

anyway, we ended up sleeping together for a nap after the sex and massage. anyhoooo....

 

[Ambition92]

Aww, that's too bad, but the silver lining is that you two had a good time leading up to it. It's still really early on and you two seem really into each other. I'm sure the stars will align very soon.

 

[dragon08]

Yeah It's ok I wrote it so it would be funny. lol Ugh I got excited for naught.

I'mm just so confused. I really like him but yesterday I didn't like the way that he conducted himself at the club and I feel like we have a LOT of differing views on a lot of stuff, plus I'm also finding out about stuff that he's done in the past that I don't like.

Last night when we were at the club he tells me that he likes to flirt with girls while he's drunk. He had about maybe 6 drinks give or take, I only had a shot shortly after getting to the club (I'm underage and I was driving anyways). We were dancing and stuff and then he tells me he'll be right back and goes to hit on this chick, then proceeds to tell me that he got cockblocked by her gay friend when he gets back. I didn't like that at all. I couldn't really say anything since we technically aren't together or anything so it's not like he's committed to me he introduced me to his friends at the club and we introduced when asked we just said that "we were talking" which is true.

When we get back to my room I was kinda expecting a makeout session if not some kind of sex and that's when the massage thing happened. When we woke up this morning he kinda tells me that he was sorry I didn't prompt him, he just said "Yeah sorry I told you that I hit on girls when I'm drunk."

He then takes me out to breakfast and stuff. He also told me about an old relationship he was in with this girl. This girl was a pathological liar, she faked a pregnancy and a succeeding miscarriage, pretended that she was rich, and this chick was also legally married and pretended to have gotten divorced already (They were separated but not divorced).

He told me that he knew that she was lying about all that stuff and just stayed with her to see how far she would go with her lies, and that the entire time he cheated on her with some guys and girls. In the end he broke it off and kinda got even he told her that he hated her and that he pretended to be in love with her for a long time.

I mean I know that that chick was bad news and stuff but I don't like how he handled that relationship. I think he was with her when he was deployed and when the guy he fell in love with died.

I think that we are too different and there are some big things that I don't like. He has also said that he doesn't ever hit on guys like he isn't comfortable with it. He says that he let's them make the first move and then he goes from there. I think he knows exactly what his orientation is but I don't know exactly how comfortable he is with it. The holding hands and kissing thing also kinda makes me think this.

The problem is that I still have feelings for him. I think his actions have shown that he's not looking for a Long Term Relationship but I don't think I'm some quick fuck to him either (we haven't had sex although if he was conscious last night we would probably have).

Being entirely honest I don't think that an LTR with him would work but I don't want to just stop talking to him. I know for a fact that He's interested in having something with me. He texts me and stuff he tells me goodnight and good morning every day, and he tries to see me every day. I've tested the waters a few times and if I let the conversation drop or something he'll wait a while and then kinda bring it up later so I know that at some level he's interested more than superficially.

I think I'm going to keep going on dates with him and hang out and stuff but I think it's gonna just be a Friends With Benefits thing. He has offered me multiple times that I can stay at his house after he moves in when I want to. I think I'm going to spend the night with him tomorrow. Unless he proves to me that he isn't the guy that he used to be and that he can actually commit to someone and isn't ashamed of being gay or anything I don't think I'll actually make him my boyfriend. Until then he is know being put in the FWB category.

 

[dragon08]

Oh and just for clarity this is how I define my dating Hierarchy
Right now we're at the dating stage but he's on the path to FWB

DATING/TALKING
|
|------------------------
| ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` |
V ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` V
BOYFRIEND <--> FRIEND WITH BENEFITS NO STRINGS ATTACHED
|
|
V
FIANCE
|
|
V
HUSBAND

 

[KaraBulut]

Up in post #7, is the observation that you see very clearly the pros and cons of the situation.

A couple of additional observations-

1. In spite of your ability to see all the reasons why something won't work, you're still trying to make it work (in this latest example, changing to FWB instead of acknowledging that the red flags are really piling up and that, emotionally, you're setting yourself up to get hurt).
2. He told you a story about sticking to a relationship with someone who obviously had a lot of issues. In the end, the relationship was so poisonous that both people ended up getting hurt. Isn't that kind of the same thing you're doing here?

And a quote from post #7 that bears repeating:

It sounds like you both need a friend. It would be better for both of you if you didn't have expectations beyond that.

 

[ruivinho]

Up in post #7, is the observation that you see very clearly the pros and cons of the situation.

A couple of additional observations-

1. In spite of your ability to see all the reasons why something won't work, you're still trying to make it work (in this latest example, changing to FWB instead of acknowledging that the red flags are really piling up and that, emotionally, you're setting yourself up to get hurt).
2. He told you a story about sticking to a relationship with someone who obviously had a lot of issues. In the end, the relationship was so poisonous that both people ended up getting hurt. Isn't that kind of the same thing you're doing here?

And a quote from post #7 that bears repeating:

I'm with him. Can you REALLY manage the FWB sort of thing with him? Sounds to me that, even though you see lots of red flags you are still falling for him, and that if you go FWB you might actually fall for him, and as soon as it is over, you'll be hurt, even though it is supposedly no strings attached.

 

[bruce379]

Oh and just for clarity this is how I define my dating Hierarchy
Right now we're at the dating stage but he's on the path to FWB

DATING/TALKING
|
|------------------------
| ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` |
V ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` V
BOYFRIEND <--> FRIEND WITH BENEFITS NO STRINGS ATTACHED
|
|
V
FIANCE
|
|
V
HUSBAND

Despite what others say, and they have good reasons to make you think this through, especially what KaraBulut said, love is not that simple.

For me, I think you know what you're doing. It's good you are demoting your relationship with him to a FWB situation. This will allow you to find your sexual compatibility with him in the short-term. You mentioned, you haven't had sex with him yet. Well, now might be a good time to be more aggressive with him on making the first moves.

I wouldn't be too hard on him on hitting on the girls. It's a guy thing. He hasn't come out full blown gay, so give him a break. Even though I've accepted that I'm gay, I still find it a thrill to hit on girls at the gay bars when they are becoming too friendly I remember making out with 3 girls simultaneously in the middle of the dance floor. On second thought, I should have banged them in the back room... anyhoooo...

Take it as far as this will go. You obviously have feelings for him and he obviously won't let it drop easily with you because he likes you also. So, he's a little flawed - who isn't. But you could be cheating yourself out of the love of your life if you don't give people a chance. At this point though, I'd ramp up the sex with him and advance the timetable. I'd squeeze as much juice from this lemon so to speak Give it four months, at least to get to know him better. If you can get sex from him at least once a week, then good. Why, you ask? Because sex can bring clarity to the situation. It will either improve the relationship or actually stop the relationship from going further.

It's obvious you love your veteran and he has feelings for you too, more than just superficial, it would seem. At the same time, I would open myself up to the possibility of meeting with other guys. But I would spend a little more time on your veteran just because of the extra investment of time and effort put in already. Get to know him better and more intimately in the next few months. And keep us posted

Good luck!

 

[Ambition92]

Every new post that you make seems to reveal a little bit more about your friend that isn't compatible with what you're looking for. With that said, you seem to know how to handle the situation and it'd be great if you guys could make it into a FWB relationship. After reading through the posts again, he seems like he has a lot of baggage. He'd also have to blind to not be able to tell that you might be hurt by him hitting on girls in a club when what you described was very much a date. I get the vibe that he can tell that you're really into him, and I think he kind of likes that power in a sense. It doesn't seem malicious or anything, and I think it'll likely end in a good time for both of you, but you're constantly meeting him halfway and he isn't necessarily reciprocating until you've been waiting there for a while.

 

[dragon08]

Well Ambition, in hindsight i think that i did put a lot of effort toward the beginning but lately i have noticed work from him. It isn't one sided.

That being said I know that this probably won't work as a boyfriend thing. I do have feelings for him and i think he does for me as well but if we aren't compatible that doesn't matter much.
I'm not stupid, I'm not gonna cheat myself out of someone. I'm gonna hang out with him and stuff still but the second someone else comes along he's getting put on the back burner.

The way I see it I don't have any prospects elsewhere for dating at the moment, and I'm not gonna stop flirting with other guys but in the meantime I can have some fun.

It sucks that he's got baggage, like i said in the beginning if i can help i will. I think this has evolved beyond me trying to just be a friend but I feel like he trusts me and I'm not gonna cheat myself out of a good friend. As far as sex goes i say if we're both willing (and conscious) then we should go for it.

 

[liu273420683]

I recently watched a documentary called Bridegroom. This guy sounds a bit like the one who lost his boyfriend a couple years ago in the film.

Regarding this question, all I think is that you are young, man. I think a boyfriend with that kind of baggage is not something people your age can or should be handling. I'm not questioning your maturity here, just think it would be unfair to live in the shadow of someone and to always be compared to someone who is long gone. He obviously likes you, but be 100% sure he's moved on before you decide to have something serious with him.