Compulsive Complexity: Chapter 2

[Vlad-Dracul]

I've posted my story in another thread, but it had gotten to be too long. So here I begin a new thread, where the topic at hand is indeed different.

The relationship with my friend (the same one who is the focus of my original thread, titled "Complex Compulsion") has truly changed in the last few months. While before my topics were about me wanting to get over my attraction towards him because it was ruining our friendship, everything seems to have taken a ninety degree turn (or very close to it), and now my doubts revolve around something different.

You see, in January of this year, we stopped talking for a week, and I had stopped talking to him for nearly 3 months last year. This was all due to what I felt for him, which he was unable to accept. I couldn't take that, so I fell into deep depressions (this is the subject of my other thread, so any further background information will be excluded here).

Ever since we started talking again at the end of January, things have changed... and quite a lot, I should say. Before, we talked once a week on the phone; it really bothered him if I expressed my feelings for him... it made him upset, quite a few times.
These days, since January, like I said, things are different. I will say that I don't usually sit and analyze this situation; I simply enjoy it the way it is, without questioning why or how. But, if I wish to get any advice or feedback from you guys, it's something I must do.
Having said that, the first question in line is whether he has become interested in exploring our relationship further. The way I see it, everything points towards that, but you guys can help with this one.

Just to mention some (certainly not all) of the things that have changed for the better between me and him:
-We talk on the phone often; 3-4 times a week, sometimes 5 or 6. At least once or twice a week, we talk for over an hour. I've told him in the past that I like it when he calls me, that it makes me smile, and so I would say, 90% of the time, he's the one to call me.
-Quite often, I'll tell him straight out that I love talking him, and how happy he makes me. Like I said on my other posts, I've always known him to not be the expressive type, so I let his actions do the talking. For instance, him calling me or texting me something, knowing that it'll make me happy.
-He came at the beginning of March and we spent the whole day together. Then, at the end March, he came to pick me up, and I spent 5 days with him at his place (an hour away). I didn't want to push anything sexual, so nothing of that sort happened. But, he did let me massage his back and legs continuously while playing on the computer or watching TV. One night, we watched a movie on his bed, and I caressed his legs, all the way from his toes up to his abdomen and touching his pubes, me sliding my hand under his boxers. This was done about for two hours, after which, I caressed his back. It was his idea that we jumped on his bed to do this (refer to my original post for further details).
-I've hinted to him that I want to do that again, but the other day, I told him directly... that I was looking forward to him, to us being together, but also, I was looking forward to his body. He said we would that again, and when I asked him, he said he would enjoy it as well. He did add that it probably won't happen as much as the last time because his brother would be there for the summer, but that he "would try to figure out his brother's schedule". By saying that, I can see that he's thinking of that as illicit behaviour; that is, we would have to hide to do it. This doesn't bother me, but it does add meaning to what I'm explaining on this post.
-When I was at his place for five days, I got upset because he hadn't told me that he would be seeing his two friends (whom I know) the following weekend (me getting upset over this was unneeded and uncalled for, I realize). I asked him why he hadn't told me. He finally admitted to me that he had kept it a secret from me because he knew I would get upset (and I did -_- ). Being still annoyed, I told him that I thought we were closer than that. After an exchange, he did admit that "our relationship is different" (than the ones he has with his other friends).
-Last Saturday night, we were talking on the phone, and towards the end of the conversation, I started telling him that he makes me very happy. He didn't reply much, he just giggled and said, "I know". We were both tired and sleepy; it was almost 2am, but I did tell him that he was being quiet. Well, at a bit past 2am, we said our good-byes and hung up. I went straight to bed, and as I'm falling asleep, he sends me a funny text message. I texted him back saying something along of the lines of "You always manage to make me smile I'll text you during the day. Good night". He texted me back with a "good night".
-I told him last week to take a pic with his cell phone and to send it to me. I thought he had forgotten, but on Sunday night, he texted me a pic he had just taken, along with a small message.

In essence, it's little things like that, I can keep on going with examples, that just make me giggle and smile and go "Wow, I <3 this guy". Basically, we keep in touch the whole week. I try to be there for him for what I can; for instance, I usually proofread his schoolpapers. It's not much, but it makes me feel good knowing I'm helping him, and I think he likes the fact that I can and will help him.
We're supposed to get together in a few weeks. I'll most likely be staying at his place for a couple of days. I've definitely changed my attitude from the way I acted last year. I believe I've showed him that I'm genuinely interested in him as a person, and that I'm not after him looking to satisfy my sexual fantasies and urges.

Like I said, I'm enjoying things the way they are. In the past, bringing up the "gay" issue directly caused friction between us. So, since January, nothing about gay or straight has been said. I like talking to him; I like looking forward to seeing him; I like that he makes me happy. As I mentioned, before writing this post, I hadn't sat down and analyzed everything like this; I've been simply liking and enjoying things for what they are; and I want them to continue this way. I don't see him as a sexual object, and so getting in his pants isn't what I'm looking for in him (though I don't exclude it if the right circumstances lead there); rather, he makes me happy for the person he is, and I always look forward to hearing his voice, seeing his smile, etc.

Now, I turn to you guys... what is your take on all this? Is there something here between us?
What advice would you have for me to keep things going smoothly, and possibly discover if there's more than meets the eye?

I'm fine with just "riding this out", and see what happens down the road, but I thought I'd post this here to get some input, since my gay friends are scarce.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post once again.

-Vlad

 

[TX-Beau]

Honestly, if I had a dime...

No one here knows, be a man and ask if he's interested in guys. You'll have your answer.

If you're not interested in pursuing a relationship and you're perfectly happy with the way things are why are you posting this thread?"

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

You do have a point there, TX-Beau. The thing is I already had that conversation with him, more than once I should say; that's why I kept referencing my first post. If you read that (found through my profile, I would guess), you will see how things have changed. We went through some hard times because of this same issue; and he claimed to be straight. Finally, in January, I came to grips with all of this, and bowed to see him as just a friend, and nothing else. I was doing that, and then things changed to what I explain on this post.

When I say that I'm happy with the way things are, I mean that when compared to last year. As far as pursuing a relationship, that's what this post was about; most of the time, I forget about that gay/straight distinction with regards to him... it just feels I could have something with him. Everything we do, everything we say... it's like I'm dealing with a potential partner. So I don't want to bring up the gay/bi/straight issue because it may get us back to square one. That was the problem back then, and the reason he may have opened up in this manner is because I dropped those direct questions "Are you into me? When are you going to let me blow you?" (not that direct, but you get the point).

It's just that all these little things you do when you like someone, I'm doing them with him. For instance, we texted each other throughout the day today again, and about an hour ago, he called me without warning, and among many things, I told him that I had loved his picture, that he looked very nice, and that it had me happy to get it. He then was telling how when we get together, he's going to cook for me, and do different things like that.

But you're right, you guys won't know more about this than he and I who are involved in it. Nonetheless, I was posting here what's going on to simply get some input, since many of you are older and more experienced (hence, can give me some advice).

I don't think I'll ask him directly "Oh, hey, so you turned gay all of a sudden? Is that it?". No. Instead, what I meant was that I want to continue what we're doing and follow where this leads to. I mean, even if I had this going with an out-of-the-closet gay guy, I still wouldn't want to take it too fast (as in, "I love you... so... do you love me??? OMFG, why haven't you called?!").

And contrary to what you said, TX, yes, I am interested in a relationship (it does feel sometimes like I'm already in one with him, actually).

I hope I'm getting my point across.

Thanks.

Vlad-Dracul

P.S. About the "Honestly, if I had a dime..." comment, I figured this would be the appropriate forum to post something like this, of all places. I understand that, to the regular posters, this may seem repetitive, for I know there are many posts like mine. Nonetheless, there's no need for a reply like that. I do recognize that my posts are long, and I do apologize for that.

 

[rareboy]

Stop talking until 2 am and texting in the middle of the night.

I don't even know what input you're looking for after reading your posts. It is more like a 'Dear Diary'.

Ask him. Do. You. Want. To. Fuck.?

If you just want to let this keep playing out ad infinitum, then it is clear you don't need any advice or input at all.

 

[spencer]

As someone who is like you, lemme tell you this.

You have him in more ways than most of us have him with straight guys. You get to touch him, you got him to call you and text you and you get to spend alone time with him and he likes it.

Realizing that, I'm tell you know, quit, QUIT, telling him how happy you are when he texts you. You can THANK him for texting or talking at the end of the conversation. But that crap about, you make me smile, I love when you text me, you make me the happiest man on the earth stuff, not only gets old but makes you sound utterly completely desparate to him. It makes the other party feel weird.

100% be there for him. Give him what he needs, just don't grovel. Play your cards right and you'll be touching him every weekend. He already realizes he has you for an "escape" where you can massage him and have special conversations with him. Keep it special and relish in the fact that he has that with no one else (throw your friend jealously out the window now too) and make it grow. But please lose the over and over again, broken record of constant nagging graditude.

Keep things balanced and call him as many times as he calls you too. That's not exactly being fair to him with your expectations so high (also do something he wants to do that you necessarly don't, like go to the ball game or play a round of gold if he likes that.)

You have to reciprocate.

 

[rareboy]

But that crap about, you make me smile, I love when you text me, you make me the happiest man on the earth stuff, not only gets old but makes you sound utterly completely desparate to him. It makes the other party feel weird.

Actually...it is kind of puke making when you think about it.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

Thank you for your comments, guys.

rareboy, yes, it's true that my posts read like journal entries. In a way, just writing about the situation helps me to sort my thoughts; I've said that in other posts. In any case, whether it's a blog or an article, everyone has something to say, and you guys have done that; so thanks.

spencer, that's kind of what I was looking for... someone who could relate to my situation and provide me with their feedback. I am conscious, at times, of what you tell me not to do, and I do attempt to suppress my desire to express that "constant gratitude". I will try even more so now.
Indeed, like I said, it's not the sex that I'm after with him; it's more than that. After this weekend, I can say for sure now that I've fallen for him.
He called me on Saturday, and I was a bit... not upset... just... a little bummed out because he hadn't called me on Friday, and he hadn't responded to a text message I had sent him. He said that he had been busy, and that he honestly thought he had replied to my text. We talked for about 20 minutes, and all I could talk about was that, really. He called me on it too. I told him that I was sorry for acting that way. He said he understood, that when we don't talk, I get like that... but, that he expects it now.... so it was OK. His attitude wasn't one that showed annoyance... rather, somewhat apologetic; he told me that he wouldn't be as busy this week (so he won't forget to call me). He said he would be busy with his parents on Sunday, but that he would call me anyway.

After we hung up, I texted him, telling him to forgive my QQness (i.e. complaining), that I can be silly and dumb at times, and concluded with a "Good night". This was at like 12h30am. I send the message, and what does he do? He texts me "Good night, [nickname we have for each other]!", and sends me a pic he had taken that moment, of him smiling. What can I say... I was ecstatic. My reply to that was "Wow, I don't know what to say. I'll just tell you tomorrow when we talk lol. night".

On Sunday, I texted him saying that if he was tired at night [keeping in mind we talk 1-2hrs], that it was OK, we could talk on Monday, that I understood, and told him that I hoped he was having fun. I knew he was with his mom, so I didn't get a text from him back. I went to bed and I knew... I really did know... that I would have a message from him by the time I woke up. Sure enough, I woke up and there was a text from him telling me what he had done, saying that he did finish late, and that he would call me tonight.

That's how it's gotten to be... I can almost predict when he's going to call me or text me. Maybe he can too about me.

And yes, like spencer said, I will begin to call him more, instead of just letting him do all the calling. I have told him that too.

Thanks once again for reading. I will update you guys of anything major that takes place.



-Vlad

P.S. In essence, the point of this thread is to show how things have remarkably changed from the way they were last year. If you guys read my first thread, you will see the difference.

 

[rareboy]

I get the sense that you never stop talking.

Or focussing on 'you'.

You remind me of many teens I know; their entire lives seem to still be defined by the texting and the talk, talk, talk with every inflection and nuance analyzed and over-analyzed and shared with everyone else.

Your life becomes just one episode after another and you may honestly begin to believe that everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting to hear how you whispered goodnight to one another or wrote some cute thing in a text message.

Get on with life. Stop just talking and texting about talking and texting. Do something. With him. With other people too to help you get over this obsessive and apparently sterile boy-crush.

 

[Vlad-Dracul]

Geez, rareboy. You may be right on some points, and I respect your opinion... but why is it that if you aren't sucking X person's dick by the second week, it just ain't worth it to some people??? I get this from your previous comment: "Ask him. Do. You. Want. To. Fuck.?"
You know, there are a some of us who actually enjoy a genuine emotional connection. I'm not even going on to explain what was said in last night's conversation, for I said I would only update if something major happened... I'll simply state that a few things were said that reassure the fact that this connection is real and desired, and not the one-sided, fantasy ordeal you attempt to portray it as. This is way past the "boy-crush" stage; that was last year, if you missed my first thread.

You may have also missed that he moved about an hour away, which is why we're talking and texting a lot. We have gotten together a few times this semester, and we have planned several things for the summer, the first of which will be me staying at his place in a few weeks.
I almost see this as if I were doing this with a girl... if I had strong feelings towards her, and we showed each other mutual affection... but she wasn't ready to be intimate, sexually. If I really cared for her as much as I said, I would wait for her to be ready, and I wouldn't try to force her to "take her to bed". I imagine you would respond differently, but that's the way I feel.

As far as getting "on with life", and doing "something. With him. With other people too [...]", if all I wanted was some booty and dick, I could get that anytime. Guys who are willing to hook up and have one night stands are a dime a dozen. I'm not saying I don't have my fun every now and then, but I've never been the type to meet someone just for the sake of having sex. I've even been in some gay environments, where I've had gay guys come up to me and tell me they want to give me a blowjob and all, even trying to kiss me, and I turn them down. Just not me. Sorry. Yesterday, this guy I've known for years called me, telling me he was horny and wanted me to go his place so we could "fuck" (not the first time he asks). You can imagine what I did with that request (yes, turned it down). And I've done that many, many times with different people.

I'm a reasonable person, and I do have a circle of friends, contrary to what you imagine, rareboy. It's just that "sex, sex, sex, fuck, fuck, fuck, suck, suck, suck" isn't what's in my mind when I think of this person who makes me feel special. Yes, I will be happy if when I meet with him, nothing sexual happens, as long as the sensuality and this quasi-romanticism is kept around.

In any case, you make the choice to click on my post and read through it, in spite of knowing my posting and writing style by now. I know you'll give me the "Who cares about that cutesy, corny crap" or the "Blah, blah, blah" card. But I'll tell you what, I'll make this easy for you, and I'll wrap this up. I won't post again, unless something major changes.

Or perhaps not.

-Vlad

 

[rareboy]

Glad to hear that you can get laid at the drop of a dime. Gives a lot of other guys hope, I imagine.

You know, there are a (sic) some of us who actually enjoy a genuine emotional connection.

You're not that special. A lot of people do, including me. So stop sniffing while you write.

I'm not even going on to explain what was said in last night's conversation

And for that, your faithful reader thanks you.

We're all glad you are lost in love. It can make fools out of the most rational of men.

It only becomes creepy and psychologically perverse when someone puts another on a very high romantic pedestal and prefers 'romantic' love to the entire enchillada containing sex, passion, and physical tenderness in addition to words, words, words; something less neurotic...something messier and more all consuming than medieval courtly love.

Read Don Quixote, Michelangelo's and Shakespeare's sonnets and Dante's Divine Comedy. If you want to have this pure obsession, go ahead; just make something great out of it like they did instead of confiding the sweet nothings you whisper to one another on a porn forum. It just cheapens the sentiments when they become just another episode of 'The Hills'.

 

[spencer]

He called me on Saturday, and I was a bit... not upset... just... a little bummed out because he hadn't called me on Friday, and he hadn't responded to a text message I had sent him. He said that he had been busy, and that he honestly thought he had replied to my text. We talked for about 20 minutes, and all I could talk about was that, really. He called me on it too. I told him that I was sorry for acting that way. He said he understood, that when we don't talk, I get like that... but, that he expects it now.... so it was OK. His attitude wasn't one that showed annoyance... rather, somewhat apologetic; he told me that he wouldn't be as busy this week (so he won't forget to call me). He said he would be busy with his parents on Sunday, but that he would call me anyway.

Are you ready? Listen carefully. When your conversations with him include a full dissertation about how people feel about who calls who and who didn't call back who and why you didn't call back and I said I'd call. Then you respond in a text saying, oh, sorry I missed your call and you didn't call why? and I didn't call because, then you are one slippery step away from throwing it all away.

Focus man! Have a life, live your life. Include your friend in your life. Call him ask him how his life is, listen to his problems and be there for him. Tell him what's going on in your life and how you went out with your friends (yes have a life and tell him about it). SHARE your thoughts with him. Joke around and stay on good topics.

QUIT looking for VALIDATION from him. I REPEAT, QUIT IT. He calls you and you like it, I get it. But the second he doesn't call you for 2 days in a row, you'll be texting him and calling him and if he's busy, you'll text or call some more and the very following conversation will be you asking him why and him apoligizing and then you'll feel a little bit better and then you'll apologize and praise him. Then he'll call on time for a bit but the second he pulls back, you'll be paranoid yet again and you'll call him out on it and there will be tension and the cycle will start all over again and again.

Stop it. Be a normal friend.

 

[rareboy]

^ Well put. You see, I don't think this is romance at all. I think it is an obsessive/compulsive and highly neurotic exercise built around high expectation and inevitable disappointment, followed by apologies, recrimination, guilt and then re-building of the same unhealthy and vaguely unpleasant expectations.

It is the reason that 'courtly' love poetry and literature has always made my skin crawl.

Here's a challenge.

Turn your cellphone off for a week or throw it away entirely. Think about how to spend the hours and hours and hours that aren't going into endless, mindless chatter.

Be still.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well put. You see, I don't think this is romance at all. I think it is an obsessive/compulsive and highly neurotic exercise built around high expectation and inevitable disappointment, followed by apologies, recrimination, guilt and then re-building of the same unhealthy and vaguely unpleasant expectations...

And I wonder how much of this is just on the OP's head. Wouldn't be the first time a gay guy has imagined a relationship with a straight guy. It'll end in tears I tell ya.

 

[rareboy]

It'll end in tears I tell ya.

Or a huge hissy fit followed by pathological depression.