Computer Science Job Market

[Cognition]

I'm currently completing the general education curriculum (GEC/2 year) aspect of my undergraduate studies at a community college, and I'm seriously considering Computer Science and/or Finance as a major for matriculation to Southern Methodist University. Before I receive my Associate's degree I'll know for sure what I'll major in and what I'll minor in.

For the past few months I've been mildly concerned with a few individuals "warning" me of the bleak job prospects as a Computer Science major. For example, my classmate in introductory accounting informed me that her cousin who has a Master's degree in Computer Science from Oklahoma State University (OSU), is unable to find a job. In fact, this allegedly smart cousin of her is working a lowly job as a convenience store clerk. I have another friend who's significant other obtained his CS degree from University of Texas at Dallas (UTD) and was unable to find work as a CS graduate, so he is now pursuing a M.S. in Accounting working for an accounting firm. I have a coworker who also has a CS degree from UTD who is out of work and searching the job market.

I am impressed with the CS degree's ability to substantially strengthen an individual's logic and critical thinking skills along with the high average starting salary, but these tales of unemployment are making me question the validity of acquiring such a degree. Perhaps I will couple my CS degree with Finance and be more "secure."

Is this just a regional issue (Dallas/Ft. Worth) or is the CS degree becoming less valuable in the national job market?

 

[Persian89]

Good question, looking forward the answers --> C/S Student.
However... I gotta say, from what I've seen it looks pretty fucking good
I mean I've heard stories about students getting contacted from companies abroad (Sweden) even before graduations depending on their portfolio and resumé.....

 

[cityboy-stl]

American companies are laying off their computer and tech people and outsourcing or hiring H1B foreigners, then lying about it saying they cannot find American workers. This is why computer job prospects are so bad. Why should anyone go into any computer, tech or engineering field when most of the jobs are given to foreigners? American jobs should go to American's - period. How many millions of both blue collar and white collar people might still be employed today if their jobs hadn't been outsourced? How much better would the economy be? I am making less today as a programmer than I was in 2000 thanks to outsourcing driving down the wage scale. I fully expect to be unemployed in the next few weeks or months with more than 30 years of experience. But the banks and corporations receiving bailouts are applying for more H1Bs as the American taxpayer bailout money goes to India and China and more Americans join the unemployed list. It's outrageous.

 

[Cognition]

Good question, looking forward the answers --> C/S Student.
However... I gotta say, from what I've seen it looks pretty fucking good
I mean I've heard stories about students getting contacted from companies abroad (Sweden) even before graduations depending on their portfolio and resumé.....

That's what I thought. Perhaps the three people I encountered were the exception to an otherwise good job market.

Someone sent me this report, take a look if you want: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm

According to Robert Half Technology, starting salaries for software engineers in software development ranged from $66,500 to $99,750...

Sounds good, doesn't it?

 

[Cognition]

What exactly do want to do with your CS degree? A degree is just a degree. There no "computer science" jobs per se'. There are jobs that may require that skillset.

Software engineering: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm

 

[hotatlboi]

Computer/software jobs had been on the rise recently (as soon as last year), but as with the recent economic downturn they have been affected along with everything else.

 

[justapixel]

Large companies in my area will not hire an entry level programmer.

Their philosophy is that if they wanted to hire someone with no experience, they can get get someone in India or Brazil at 1/3 of the cost with the same lack of experience.

However, if you have four of five years experience, they will hire you.

So you have to get a job at a small company that doesnt do offshore.

I do believe that there is going to be a big backlash against the H1B Visa program during this recession.

 

[Cognition]

Large companies in my area will not hire an entry level programmer.

Their philosophy is that if they wanted to hire someone with no experience, they can get get someone in India or Brazil at 1/3 of the cost with the same lack of experience.

However, if you have four of five years experience, they will hire you.

So you have to get a job at a small company that doesnt do offshore.

I do believe that there is going to be a big backlash against the H1B Visa program during this recession.

College co-op program. Internship.

There's a bigger concern for competency, as in possessing the skills needed to program for the needs of said company. It has been brought to my attention that Indians or Braziilians do not have nearly the comparable education that the 'comparable' B.S. degree from a respected school here in the U.S. offers. So while the U.S. grad and the Indian/Brazil grad may both have lack of experience, the U.S. grad is still miles ahead of the foreign competition because educational disparity.

 

[justapixel]

the U.S. grad is still miles ahead of the foreign competition because educational disparity.

You can hire four Indians for the price of one American.

So are you saying that you will have the output of four Indians?

Most major companies doubt that.

 

[Cognition]

You can hire four Indians for the price of one American.

So are you saying that you will have the output of four Indians?

Most major companies doubt that.

The 'output' is not the issue here. What's really a concern is the integrity of the coding. Will the code work properly (and efficiently)?

Let's not equate higher 'output' with functionality. Sure you could have four Indians piece together some shit code in a day, but if it doesn't work, has anything been accomplished? Absolutely not.

 

[justapixel]

The 'output' is not the issue here. What's really a concern is the integrity of the coding. Will the code work properly (and efficiently)?

Let's not equate higher 'output' with functionality. Sure you could have four Indians piece together some shit code in a day, but if it doesn't work, has anything been accomplished? Absolutely not.

I am not going to argue with you about this. Since you or I can not change this.

The major companies have spoken. Indian and Brazil workers are cheaper than American workers.

Also, there are alot of Americans who write "shit" code.

 

[Cognition]

I am not going to argue with you about this. Since you or I can not change this.

The major companies have spoken. Indian and Brazil workers are cheaper than American workers.

Also, there are alot of Americans who write "shit" code.

I didn't think we were arguing. Yes, there are a number of Americans who write "shit" code, but the inconsistencies rise substantially in the foreign markets because of the educational/training disparity. CS grads here are typically have 2+ years of higher "competency" as compared to our foreign counterparts. I would be so bold to say that most foreign coders/programmers have the equivalent of a 2 year college degree, compared to the industry standards here in the United States (that mostly require a minimum of a 4 year degree, bachelor's).

Indian and Brazilian workers may be cheaper than American workers, but what are they competent in? Are they all capable of performing comparable tasks to those of all American workers? Would the risk of incompetence (calling for a better trained worker) exceed the cost of recruiting an American worker to perform the task?

These are the questions we must ask. Generalizations and across-the-board responses do not suffice.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Pixel is right in some ways. To many corporations all that matters is the number that is on the pin-head accountants Excel spreadsheet. Therefore cheaper = more productive = Indians. Quality is irrelevant because it cannot be quantified as a number on the books. I've seen it over and over. It took the Indian a week to do something I could do in a day. But he is more productive because his "number" is less. Don't think too logically about it. Most corporations are run by pointy-haired bosses and this is what happens and why the economy is screwed up.

 

[Persian89]

American companies are laying off their computer and tech people and outsourcing or hiring H1B foreigners, then lying about it saying they cannot find American workers. This is why computer job prospects are so bad. Why should anyone go into any computer, tech or engineering field when most of the jobs are given to foreigners? American jobs should go to American's - period. How many millions of both blue collar and white collar people might still be employed today if their jobs hadn't been outsourced? How much better would the economy be? I am making less today as a programmer than I was in 2000 thanks to outsourcing driving down the wage scale. I fully expect to be unemployed in the next few weeks or months with more than 30 years of experience. But the banks and corporations receiving bailouts are applying for more H1Bs as the American taxpayer bailout money goes to India and China and more Americans join the unemployed list. It's outrageous.

American companies are laying off their computer and tech people and outsourcing or hiring H1B foreigners, then lying about it saying they cannot find American workers. This is why computer job prospects are so bad. Why should anyone go into any computer, tech or engineering field when most of the jobs are given to foreigners? American jobs should go to American's - period. How many millions of both blue collar and white collar people might still be employed today if their jobs hadn't been outsourced? How much better would the economy be? I am making less today as a programmer than I was in 2000 thanks to outsourcing driving down the wage scale. I fully expect to be unemployed in the next few weeks or months with more than 30 years of experience. But the banks and corporations receiving bailouts are applying for more H1Bs as the American taxpayer bailout money goes to India and China and more Americans join the unemployed list. It's outrageous.

Or you just suck really really _REALLY_ hard at your job
The job should go to the one who does it best for the least pay, anything else is just retarded.
Be realistic and stop bitching.
Last time I check Microsoft/Google engineers had good pay.
Go there...........or do you suck so hard option is impossible?



The Pay is good in Sweden, and even better in the us + no taxes! No respectable software company would outsource their shit to India.
I mean on-site is always the best way to get things done and make sure that the requirements of specification is exact!

You just keep bitching.

 

[thermodynamics]

Here in the Twin Cities, everything's down, but 6 months ago, the computer science jobs were the most in demand of the technical fields.

I know second-hand of an outsourcing story of IBM Rochester (Minnesota). In 2000, IBM tried to outsource their coding to India. It didn't work very well. Sure, the Indian coders were great (and cheap) at simple, run-of-the-mill stuff. But when it came to anything linked to innovation or out-of-the-box thinking, they were clueless. So the tasks that IBM Rochester needs done are done in Rochester, since innovation is extremely important for them.

I agree, there will definitely be a backlash against outsourcing technical jobs. It was one thing to outsource manufacturing--not highly skilled labor. It's quite another to outsource white collar, college skilled jobs.

 

[justapixel]

I agree, there will definitely be a backlash against outsourcing technical jobs. It was one thing to outsource manufacturing--not highly skilled labor. It's quite another to outsource white collar, college skilled jobs.

It has been going on, as you said for ten years now, when will the backlash start?