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Confederate History in Stone

EddMarkStarr

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Pulling down statues of Confederate Generals is easy, but what do you do when an entire state park is dedicated to honoring the Confederacy?

Stone Mountain Park, in Georgia, covers an area greater than 3,000 acres. On-site lodging includes the Evergreen Marriott Resort, the Stone Mountain Inn and Georgia's largest campground/RV park. Attractions include the Stone Mountain SkyRide to the summit, the Scenic Train Ride, golf course, nature/hiking trails, indoor theaters and the Dinosaur Explore theme park.

It's not just a park - Stone Mountain is also a city:




The confederate fantasy is not a statute or a flag. The people I know from the southern USA eat, sleep & breathe this stuff. Many southern states have confederate love added into their foundational documents. State histories have been rewritten as if the southern states won the Civil War!

OK, let's blast the Stone Mountain mural away. This stuff is in the hearts and minds of the people across the southern USA.

Now whaddaya do?
 
Let the army use it for target practice.
 
In a perfect world this stuff wouldn't be there. The more importance people put on it the more important it becomes. It should be a source of embarrassment for the 'south', when the people who think it's a tribute to their heritage feel remorse for their ignorance they will gladly get rid of it. You can't fix stupid.
 
The stonework of the three confederate "heroes" was finally completed in 1972.

I know that smokeshadow's idea will work because the cost of keeping the stonework clean is tremendous.
The elements will erase the carvings, given sufficient time.

Even I realize how embarrassing the Stone Mountain carving is due to its colossal size - it's over-the-top stupid Big!

(ya know Alistair - the Aegis missile system could use some targeting fine tuning) :lol:
 
Blowing it up and along with it, everything around, doesn't seem appropriate to me. A more creative person (than me) would figure out a way to turn all this around on itself by making the park a pathway to progress and inclusion. Put Stone Mountain as a starting point from a regrettable, deplorable past that was once was unfortunately celebrated. Show all struggles and pain that have been inflicted since and then concentrate on building and showcasing an inclusive and diverse community that overcomes the past. A from here to there approach; we once were this, now we're that. Maybe that is overly utopian. I don't know. But rehabilitation always seems better than destruction to me.
 
Let's first rename all the places named after Confederate leaders, especially military bases. What country names military bases after the enenmy?
 
I do think that destroying statues, monuments to people/things just because you disagree with the people the commemorate is very bad. If you airbrush history, good or bad, people will forget and that will lead to the same mistakes happening again.

By constantly talking, studying the holocaust we, hopefully, spot the trends beforehand and stop it happening again.
There are several recent examples where those trends have been ignored and genocide has occurred. Myanmar is the most recent example but the Middle East has several examples
 
The The Stone Mountain project was an absolute desecration.

But so was Mount Rushmore, which destroyed a natural range sacred to the Lakota Sioux on unceded territory.
 
People visit, find edifying and enjoy buildings and places built by and sacred to societies and religions whose doctrines and practices they disagree with, abhor, or simply find crazy.

The more rational and emotionally stable of us are able to visit, for example. the Blue Mosque in Istanbul without caring about, or dwelling on the importance of slavery in the Islamic word and, in particular, the Ottoman Empire.

At least the Confederate figures were created by free men, not by slaves. The more sensitive of us should avoid visiting Islamic mosques, Russian imperial palaces and Roman ruins as they were all built by slaves. Gothic cathedrals get a pass--built by free masons--but better stay away if you find the doctrines of Roman Catholicism or the assumed mores of 14th century Europe oppressive.

I know it's entertaining for a lot of Americans to be obsessed just now with what to toss in the trash heap of history, but a future generation will look back and find it telling that so much energy was wasted on these and other related matters when the real and important news is the takeover of Hong Kong by mainland China.
 
Wut?

This piece of crap isn't even good art.

It is a monument erected by the KKK to celebrate the lost cause. There is nothing noble or sacred about it and it has actually defaced and devalued a natural wonder that was in its own right a sacred place to first peoples.

To say that it is wonderful that a monument celebrating slavers wasn't built by slaves is mind boggling.

I have visited many places like the Blue Mosque for instance. It does not celebrate slavery or slaves.

And yeah. I am educated and rationally stable...but I am acutely aware of the blood dripping from many of the monuments when I visit.

This thing is just a tawdry obscenity.
 
d9d024d17ae00a40612d67aa1082f031.jpg



Pulling down statues of Confederate Generals is easy, but what do you do when an entire state park is dedicated to honoring the Confederacy?

Stone Mountain Park, in Georgia, covers an area greater than 3,000 acres. On-site lodging includes the Evergreen Marriott Resort, the Stone Mountain Inn and Georgia's largest campground/RV park. Attractions include the Stone Mountain SkyRide to the summit, the Scenic Train Ride, golf course, nature/hiking trails, indoor theaters and the Dinosaur Explore theme park.

It's not just a park - Stone Mountain is also a city:




The confederate fantasy is not a statute or a flag. The people I know from the southern USA eat, sleep & breathe this stuff. Many southern states have confederate love added into their foundational documents. State histories have been rewritten as if the southern states won the Civil War!

OK, let's blast the Stone Mountain mural away. This stuff is in the hearts and minds of the people across the southern USA.

Now whaddaya do?

What do you do? Send in Sherman's Great Great Great Grandson.
 
Wut?

This piece of crap isn't even good art.

It is a monument erected by the KKK to celebrate the lost cause. There is nothing noble or sacred about it and it has actually defaced and devalued a natural wonder that was in its own right a sacred place to first peoples.

To say that it is wonderful that a monument celebrating slavers wasn't built by slaves is mind boggling.

I have visited many places like the Blue Mosque for instance. It does not celebrate slavery or slaves.

And yeah. I am educated and rationally stable...but I am acutely aware of the blood dripping from many of the monuments when I visit.

This thing is just a tawdry obscenity.

Not to mention that it's carved into yet another mountain that was sacred to and stolen from Native Americans.
 
People visit, find edifying and enjoy buildings and places built by and sacred to societies and religions whose doctrines and practices they disagree with, abhor, or simply find crazy.

The more rational and emotionally stable of us are able to visit, for example. the Blue Mosque in Istanbul without caring about, or dwelling on the importance of slavery in the Islamic word and, in particular, the Ottoman Empire.

At least the Confederate figures were created by free men, not by slaves. The more sensitive of us should avoid visiting Islamic mosques, Russian imperial palaces and Roman ruins as they were all built by slaves. Gothic cathedrals get a pass--built by free masons--but better stay away if you find the doctrines of Roman Catholicism or the assumed mores of 14th century Europe oppressive.

I know it's entertaining for a lot of Americans to be obsessed just now with what to toss in the trash heap of history, but a future generation will look back and find it telling that so much energy was wasted on these and other related matters when the real and important news is the takeover of Hong Kong by mainland China.

Blah bl;ah blah balh blah....

I'd like to point out that the only reason it was created by "free men" is because the people in it were forced to give up their obscenity at the point of a gun.
 
A more creative person (than me) would figure out a way to turn all this around on itself by making the park a pathway to progress and inclusion. Put Stone Mountain as a starting point from a regrettable, deplorable past
My creative idea would be to construct two more murals: The Confederate mural would remain, and it would be the middle one.

The first mural would be, PERHAPS, the Boston Tea Party. After all, Georgia was part of the original 13 states...the southernmost of them. The last mural would, PERHAPS, be a map of the United States, including Alaska and Hawaii.

I could even argue for FOUR murals, with the Confederate one being the third. The first mural would be a commemoration of the Native Americans, who were there first, perhaps depicting a pre-Columbian settlement with teepees, a sweat lodge, a tomahawk, an arrowhead, a fire, etc. The content of that first mural should be determined by getting ideas from the Cherokee Nation and other tribes that were displaced. Putting up an "Indian" mural, with contents being entirely decided only by white man, would not be a good idea.

This would put the Confederacy **IN CONTEXT** - which is something that is NEVER done by those who celebrate it as nothing more than an excuse to celebrate racism and the dominance of white MEN in society. The Confederate States of America is indeed part of Georgia's history, and it does "deserve" some representation...but let's do it in context for a real change, please. ALL existing Confederate monuments and memorials, I believe, exist entirely by themselves with no context whatsoever.

Let's first rename all the places named after Confederate leaders, especially military bases. What country names military bases after the enenmy?
RIGHT ON! Even some people in Africa, yes, UNDERSTAND how these names are a "bad idea."

Those military installations are inside the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The people represented by these names, WENT TO WAR AGAINST THE UNITED STATES - indeed more of an "enemy" than the USSR, "Red China," North Korea, Japan, England, etc. have ever been. It's one of only three wars that have been continuously waged on USA soil. (I don't include World War II because that was, with the exception of Midway Island, was fought on US soil for only one day.) The Mexican War, the decades-long war on Native Americans, and the Civil War.

If you airbrush history, good or bad, people will forget and that will lead to the same mistakes happening again.

By constantly talking, studying the holocaust we, hopefully, spot the trends beforehand and stop it happening again.
There are several recent examples where those trends have been ignored and genocide has occurred. Myanmar is the most recent example but the Middle East has several examples
Or, conversely, refusing to airbrush history and celebrating some of the more dire aspects of history, can GUARANTEE that very bad history repeats itself.

It is NO ACCIDENT that the President, at Mt. Rushmore over the weekend, referred to the "agitators, leftists" etc. as being engaged in a "CULTURAL REVOLUTION." That was the name of the thing that happened in China, during my younger years, under"Chairman Mao." He is comparing it to a horrific movement that killed more people than the Holocaust, and wiped out a LOT of the *BEST* and most benign aspects of history in that country.
 
@ TX-beau
I assume you refer to the Creek and Cherokee tribes that were forcibly removed from the area. Amerindian tribes kept slaves, and the Creek and Cherokee owned African-descended slaves. Free born or freed blacks owned slaves. Slavery was common in much of the world before white Europeans led a movement to ban it. Ever wondered if there was a link between our word "slave" and Slav? Ponder this: a world without white Christian Europeans and the one-time colonies they founded might very likely be a world in which slavery was still ubiquitous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml
 
@ TX-beau
I assume you refer to the Creek and Cherokee tribes that were forcibly removed from the area. Amerindian tribes kept slaves, and the Creek and Cherokee owned African-descended slaves. Free born or freed blacks owned slaves. Slavery was common in much of the world before white Europeans led a movement to ban it. Ever wondered if there was a link between our word "slave" and Slav? Ponder this: a world without white Christian Europeans and the one-time colonies they founded might very likely be a world in which slavery was still ubiquitous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml

Mommy Mommy but. but but Suzie did it tooo!!!!!!!! That's a five year old's argument.

Fact is that the people trying to bury history are the people pushing the idea that these monuments are an accurate depiction of history and not the big fat recast lie about the Antebellum south pushed by racist bigots a generation later. You want to "celebrate" the glory of salvery, why not put up statues of Black people being auctioned off like cattle, all the legal rapine, murder, and every kind of abuse, if we are putting up these monuments to remember history, where is the statue of the children being torn from their mother because Massa sold her south?

Where are those statues?

Your argument is a steaming pile.
 
I climbed Stone Mountain many times as a kid and many more times as an adult. I’ve explored every part. My favorite spot is a place on the side opposite the carving that I call the Oasis. It’s a place where several of the slopes form a lateral convergence with enough soil present to support a bit of vegetation and trees. In the hot summer when it rains, water rushes down the sides of the upper mountain and narrows into a fast torrent, which funnels directly into the Oasis. There is a particular spot that becomes a splash pool for all the rushing water. It’s a natural Jacuzzi - hot water and all. I’ve enjoyed it many times. Sadly, that part of the mountain is officially “off limits.” Long ago I figured out a way to get there by following an indirect route that is indeed quite challenging, but enabled me to stay hidden from the tower atop the mountain for all but a few seconds. The odds that someone would happen to be looking down and spot me climbing in the forbidden zone were slim to nil. By the time they grabbed their binoculars to confirm what they thought they saw, I’d have disappeared. I often took the dogs along for the adventure too. One time a police helicopter spotted me and sent a cop to climb up and get me. Watching him struggle and sweat to gain altitude, I decided to make his job a little easier by going down to meet him halfway. He said, “How the hell did you get up here?”

I liked Stone Mountain a lot more back when it was a natural area - before all the commercialization, crowds, and regulations. It has become exactly the kind of place I avoid - a tourist trap with a carnival atmosphere. And it only gets worse as time goes along.

The Disneyfication of Stone Mountain: A Park’s Response to its Visitors

Tim Moore

A Thesis Submitted in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree of Bachelor of Arts in History

Professor Robert Griffith, Faculty Advisor American University, 2010


Note that removal of the carving on Stone Mountain would require action by the state legislature.

When Georgia lawmakers voted in 2001 to change the state flag that had been dominated by the Confederate battle emblem since 1956, language to guarantee the preservation of the Stone Mountain sculpture was included as a bargaining chip.

As Monuments Fall, Stone Mountain’s Confederate Carving Has Size On Its Side (WABE / Associated Press; July 4, 2020)

GA Code § 50-3-1 (2018)

(c) Any other provision of law notwithstanding, the memorial to the heroes of the Confederate States of America graven upon the face of Stone Mountain shall never be altered, removed, concealed, or obscured in any fashion and shall be preserved and protected for all time as a tribute to the bravery and heroism of the citizens of this state who suffered and died in their cause.
 
^^which is why my English Ivy idea makes the most sense. . .less costly than demolishment and wouldn't require action by the Legislature as one isn't removing anything; but, letting Mother Nature have her way :)
 
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