Confess something that might surprise others or damage your reputation on JUB - 2014

[borg69unimatrix]

So you are ashamed of it. And must admit... that it is too late too go back and disown your stupid fascination for [an] ultimately worthless entities/[entity]

No. I'm not saying they're perfect. I still appreciate them for their uniqueness as a new villain in the Trek lore compared to all the other "aliens" whom merely had different ears or noses. I like the irony in their striving for "perfection", their ships look half hazard and thrown together, and how they all become mindless 'drones' in an attempt to better themselves. I like how for such a complex race, their ships are basic geometric shapes.

Look around you at everyone constantly tied into the internet, facebook, grindr, ... even while at parties, walking down the road, eating dinner... staring at their cell phones connected to the "Hive Mind". The Borg... biggest fear of the future, yet we're RUNNING towards it here and now, waiting to be assimilated and for someone to tell us what to do and how to think - to better ourselves.

For all their "evolution", they're still no better than an ant/bee colony.

Granted, they were wrongly created to be TOO powerful. They had to be dummied down or the Federation would have had no hopes of ever stopping them... but the good guys' always gotta win, right?

 

[belamyi]

You are arguing in a circle. Yes, an industry dedicated to making profit will always have its other directives subjugated to profit, and in the modern economy, that means a certain degree of compromise with mainstream appeal, mainstream accessibility, mainstream desire-- or the ability to fabricate these things through the crafting of a brand name and good marketing and good publicity. Yes, this means that an artist truly consumed only by the furthering of his craft without regard (or even, with contempt for) the mundane consideration of profitability or marketability is neither the driving force nor the centerpiece of the fashion industry. But why should you reasonably expect he would be?

If you are saying it is regrettable that we're not a society that can pay good thinkers to think, good painters to paint, good sculpters to sculpt, good designers to design, with no worry about the cost or expense or any return on it, sure, I can agree with that. But I'd be surprised to hear that this is either particularly new to you or that you think the fashion consideration alone is any particular victim of it.

You are arguing from a rut.
And my claim does not involve material advantages, but the mere intellectual acknowledgment that purposedly sophistication and creativity in today's fashion is non existent, as someone else pointed out before during this discussion

And it is not new, only that that sort of thing can never be said often enough, since the sham sophistication and creativity of today's fashion is going on 24/7 to make this obviety pass unnoticed, so as to appear new to those who, like you and me, have been familiar with it for years...

But, in fact, what we are discussing about fashion is general in music, literature... and it even goes beyond our generally decadent in the utter mediocrity of these times..: life is generally banal, mediocre, as is lived with no excellency day to day, but people usually get away from it with some cheap, explosively emotional short-lasting antidotes to make it all more bearable, like a match, a battle, a war or the sort of music that "emotes" (using his own term) people like JP.

 

[xbuzzerx]

No. I'm not saying they're perfect. I still appreciate them for their uniqueness as a new villain in the Trek lore compared to all the other "aliens" whom merely had different ears or noses. I like the irony in their striving for "perfection", their ships look half hazard and thrown together, and how they all become mindless 'drones' in an attempt to better themselves. I like how for such a complex race, their ships are basic geometric shapes.

Look around you at everyone constantly tied into the internet, facebook, grindr, ... even while at parties, walking down the road, eating dinner... staring at their cell phones connected to the "Hive Mind". The Borg... biggest fear of the future, yet we're RUNNING towards it here and now, waiting to be assimilated and for someone to tell us what to do and how to think - to better ourselves.

For all their "evolution", they're still no better than an ant/bee colony.

Granted, they were wrongly created to be TOO powerful. They had to be dummied down or the Federation would have had no hopes of ever stopping them... but the good guys' always gotta win, right?

They represent the ever-present social pressure to conform, which can be overwhelming, or even coercive, and which will always be a relevant metaphor for that regardless of the culture of the viewer. Good sci fi has always been a mirror of real human issues spun on their head and shown to us in a different or opposite, or at least alien, way. Belamo should relate to the concept rather than making some silly attack on them as your special pet.

 

[belamyi]

No. I'm not saying they're perfect. I still appreciate them for their uniqueness as a new villain in the Trek lore compared to all the other "aliens" whom merely had different ears or noses. I like the irony in their striving for "perfection", their ships look half hazard and thrown together, and how they all become mindless 'drones' in an attempt to better themselves. I like how for such a complex race, their ships are basic geometric shapes.

Look around you at everyone constantly tied into the internet, facebook, grindr, ... even while at parties, walking down the road, eating dinner... staring at their cell phones connected to the "Hive Mind". The Borg... biggest fear of the future, yet we're RUNNING towards it here and now, waiting to be assimilated and for someone to tell us what to do and how to think - to better ourselves.

For all their "evolution", they're still no better than an ant/bee colony.

Granted, they were wrongly created to be TOO powerful. They had to be dummied down or the Federation would have had no hopes of ever stopping them... but the good guys' always gotta win, right?

Do not be fooled: today's masses are as essentially borg as they ever were when they were called the common, the vulgar... only there is a new technology driving them, like it used to be religion, or...

In fact, here we are dealing with the apparent contradiction that was being discussed with buzz: just like the strive for excellence is hard to pull forth and, once established, hard not to let it sunk in the general mediocrity, and all the harder because we have to determine just what either exactly or approximately IS execellence, here we would be dealing with the opposition between what is individual, worthier or not, and unshapely mindless, all guts for feelings and brains and existence, mass...

 

[xbuzzerx]

But, in fact, what we are discussing about fashion is general in music, literature... and it even goes beyond our generally decadent in the utter mediocrity of these times..: life is generally banal, mediocre, as is lived with no excellency day to day, but people usually get away from it with some cheap, explosively emotional short-lasting antidotes to make it all more bearable, like a match, a battle, a war or the sort of music that "emotes" (using his own term) people like JP.

You would get absolutely no argument from me that there has been a vast "dumbing down" or at least, an artificial retardation of efforts for the truly unique or innovative to push the envelope, because of the ever-present demand that something be marketable to the greatest mass market available-- and that this force has become so much more powerful since the globalization of the world economy, where no longer are people creating products concerned with servicing or capturing the consumerism of a local area, but instead of a global population. You see this cohering of ideas and products down to the lowest common denominator easily in the recipe-formula release of movies, television shows, most forms of entertainment or visual media.

But that is precisely why my ass twitches when I hear people pretentiously going on about fashion and using all of its meaningless terms people heap on whatever is trendiest at the moment.

 

[belamyi]

You would get absolutely no argument from me that there has been a vast "dumbing down" or at least, an artificial retardation of efforts for the truly unique or innovative to push the envelope, because of the ever-present demand that something be marketable to the greatest mass market available-- and that this force has become so much more powerful since the globalization of the world economy, where no longer are people creating products concerned with servicing or capturing the consumerism of a local area, but instead of a global population. You see this cohering of ideas and products down to the lowest common denominator easily in the recipe-formula release of movies, television shows, most forms of entertainment or visual media.

But that is precisely why my ass twitches when I hear people pretentiously going on about fashion and using all of its meaningless terms people heap on whatever is trendiest at the moment.

It twitches my ass, when people do that with music, with literature and the sacred cows who are an anxiety-inducing influence... as I said, it goes beyond that particular field, because it is just a partial manifestation of a general phaenomenon, who is not even particular to our times, but more prevalent, and THAT is what makes our times particular. Like when they easily accept Homer or Virgil and Shakespeare and Milton and Austen as a standard of excellency, but then won't consider later authors as decadent, because then they would force to include the literary efforts of their own times, that they respect just as much as that standard of excellency... and, worst, of all, they would be forced to face the problem of making sense to that general agreement about that actually meaningless, in their own terms because unsubstantiated, term of "excellency".

It also twitches my ass when people focuse too much on their own peeves, or some particular manifestations of something what is more vast, more far-reaching, and make a whole world of their own particular feelings, to the point of blinding them to the simpler of reasonings...

 

[borg69unimatrix]

Where do these jeans fit into your guys' fashion feud? Trendy/edgy new thing, or just grasping to be "new" and unique?

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...n-with-these?p=9343674&viewfull=1#post9343674

 

[xbuzzerx]

It also twitches my ass when people focuse too much on their own peeves, or some particular manifestations of something what is more vast, more far-reaching, and make a whole world of their own particular feelings, to the point of blinding them to the simpler of reasonings...

Oh I entirely agree. Such as when they do this with fashion specifically when it's actually a worldwide and cross-culture force acting on nearly every industry and creative endeavor.

 

[belamyi]

Oh I entirely agree. Such as when they do this with fashion specifically when it's actually a worldwide and cross-culture force acting on nearly every industry and creative endeavor.

Because they are supposedly "experts" only in that specific field... when they simply are accepted as people who have a position and make a living on appearing to be so, and ignoring the fact that, to be real "experts" in a field with fundamental more complex and general implications, they would need to first be aware of that generality, and then know more about other supposedly different fields to be able to gain more real "expertise" in their own.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Because they are supposedly "experts" in that field... when they simply are accepted as people who have a position and make a living on appearing to be so, and ignoring the fact that, to be real "experts" in a field with fundamental more complex and general implications, they would need to first be aware of that generality, and then know more about other supposedly different fields to be able to gain more real "expertise" in their own.

If it makes you feel any better, I always thought Michael Kors was a hack. Even my mom who is no fashion snob of any kind and hardly knows anything about fashion said "If he's supposed to be such a genius designer why is his crap in department stores now?"

And yes.... the so called "giants" or "experts" of most creative fields are the people who built the most successful financial empire, not necessarily the most talented people.

 

[belamyi]

Where do these jeans fit into your guys' fashion feud? Trendy/edgy new thing, or just grasping to be "new" and unique?

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thr...n-with-these?p=9343674&viewfull=1#post9343674

Oh, that's just everyday, business-as-usual fashion: you take the exact same jacket or pants your great grandad wore (literally) and then put some patches, or Swarovski crystals, or whatever will make the clueless believe it is toooootally different, not just different, which it obviously is, but fundamentally different, as if the cut or the materials had underwent a revolution and total makeover, because it is cheaper and since people will take and buy it just as if it were really totally new all the same.

I remember laughing at the windows of Zara and Mango last late August and September, when the "new season trends" brought checkers and plaid...

 

[belamyi]

If it makes you feel any better, I always thought Michael Kors was a hack. Even my mom who is no fashion snob of any kind and hardly knows anything about fashion said "If he's supposed to be such a genius designer why is his crap in department stores now?"

And yes.... the so called "giants" or "experts" of most creative fields are the people who built the most successful financial empire, not necessarily the most talented people.

Not it doesn't. In fact, I tried to comfort myself with that thought years ago, when I first stumbled on the idea, and did not work then as it does not now.
America is the land of nobodies reaching a good position in society: that talent, talent beyond wire-pulling is involved is a mere accident and more an exception. And then they have the nerve to talk as if that hard work and talent involved real excellency and creativity: they are just crowd-teasers and pleasers, be it Ronald Reagan, Obama, JLo, MK, RL, CH, fucking Hollywood in fucking bulk...
Notice how greater talent is usually naturalized, and generally praised but not actually appreciated, let alone loved.

 

[belamyi]

Oh we knew that was what your head is like all the time.. and that of your imaginary lover that complements you so well.
That's why the outer world may often appear as wrong TO YOU both

 

[xbuzzerx]

Not it doesn't. In fact, I tried to comfort myself with that thought years ago, when I first stumbled on the idea, and did not work then as it does not now.
America is the land of nobodies reaching a good position in society: that talent, talent beyond wire-pulling is involved is a mere accident and more an exception. And then they have the nerve to talk as if that hard work and talent involved real excellency and creativity: they are just crowd-teasers and pleasers, be it Ronald Reagan, Obama, JLo, MK, RL, CH, fucking Hollywood in fucking bulk...
Notice how greater talent is usually naturalized, and generally praised but not actually appreciated, let alone loved.

You're preaching to the choir; at my university a foreign-born student invented a small UV lamp that was solar rechargeable and would let people in third world countries kill contaminants in water supplies. Hardly anyone knows about him though. Probably some large medical equipment company will make the actual real profit off his idea, if they choose to make it at all.

However, you are as incorrect as painting all Americans as equally duped by the same rhetoric as I would be in saying all Spanish are lazy people of little significance to history since the 18th century.

 

[belamyi]

You're preaching to the choir; at my university a foreign-born student invented a small UV lamp that was solar rechargeable and would let people in third world countries kill contaminants in water supplies. Hardly anyone knows about him though. Probably some large medical equipment company will make the actual real profit off his idea, if they choose to make it at all.

However, you are as incorrect as painting all Americans as equally duped by the same rhetoric as I would be in saying all Spanish are lazy people of little significance to history since the 18th century.

But those Americans are not part of the crowd... they are American all right, but also part of a nation of its own, independent of UNO citizenship.
Crowds is what history is made with, crowd-teasers are those who make it, and then there are the exceptions who are more or less either ignored or trampled by both while those exceptions are alive, but then become symbols as soon as they are dead for both to keep on with the same old game.

 

[belamyi]

all Spanish are lazy people of little significance to history since the 18th century.

But that would be quite accurate anyway, and I don't need to be a Catalan to acknowledge that

 

[xbuzzerx]

But that would be quite accurate anyway, and I don't need to be a Catalan to acknowledge that

But what if I threw in "and they made shitty art, even before that"?

 

[maxpowr9]

If it makes you feel any better, I always thought Michael Kors was a hack. Even my mom who is no fashion snob of any kind and hardly knows anything about fashion said "If he's supposed to be such a genius designer why is his crap in department stores now?"

And yes.... the so called "giants" or "experts" of most creative fields are the people who built the most successful financial empire, not necessarily the most talented people.

Fashion or more property called "retail apparel" is a weird beast. Yes it is "status" driven [had trouble coming up with a better adjective]. Vera Wang is at Target which is another mindfuck. Reckon it is not wedding dresses but still weird.

Any way, Horray for bowel movements!

 

[belamyi]

But what if I threw in "and they made shitty art, even before that"?

You said since the XVIIIth century, including Goya? whose loss would be quite regrettable, and Picasso who became Picasso the more international and less parochially Spaniard he was.

 

[xbuzzerx]

You said since the XVIIIth century, including Goya? whose loss would be quite regrettable, and Picasso who became Picasso the more international and less parochially Spaniard he was.

I like Goya and Spanish art, so of course I make the statement only as an example of a statement made false through its overly lazy broadness. Much like virtually anything you could say about the American herd en masse, which consists of 300 million people of every different kind of background and creed you can think of.