Congressman Foley Thing -- Am I Missing Something?

[turtle]

Alfie - I'm not defending Foley or smearing the pages, as you claim.

However, there is really nothing to discuss in regards to Foley. Everything is crystal clear with him, as far as I am concerned. There is no doubt in my mind that the e-mails and IMs came from him, that he was into the teen pages, that he was maybe even trying to (awkwardly) solicit sex from them, etc.

There ARE however considerable questions that are still unanswered about the IM page (not to be confused with the "sick sick sick" e-mail page, who apparently blew this whole thing up).

The only question about the page which matters is how old he was.

 

[SFMusic]

...So whatever motive the teen had... irrelevant. Maybe he really was into it, enjoying it, but that has nothing at all to do with Foley's responsibility -- it may have something to do with needing counseling and discipline (and maye his parents!), but it mitigates what Foley did not in the slightest.

Thanks Kulindahr for such a thoughtful, and rational discussion of this thorny issue.

 

[sonny10305]

Soooooo how many congressmen does it take to turn over a page

 

[Mr.BiGuy]

Anyways, please contact the Human Rights Campaign Fund (or any other gay org you know) and demand that they release a statement that homosexuality and pedophilia are not linked. Indeed the vast majority of pedophiles are hetero. The GOP is claiming they did not go after Foley out of fear of gay-bashing. Bulll!!! Gays are parents too and support strong laws to protect children. Here is the link the to HRC site.

http://www.hrc.org/

Thanks for the link. I heard that GOP spin bullshit they pulled earlier and it sickens me. Why is'nt GLAAD or any other gay organization saying something to that effect that Homosexuality and pedophilla are not the same in regards to this case? I knew the GOP was going to make turn this into "see gays are pedos" spin.

And if anything, these kids are less innocent — these 16 and 17 year-old beasts…and I've seen what they're doing on YouTube and I've seen what they're doing all over the internet — oh yeah — you just have to tune into any part of their pop culture. You're not going to tell me these are innocent babies. Have you read the transcripts that ABC posted going into the weekend of these instant messages, back and forth? The kids are egging the Congressman on! The kids are trying to get this out of him. We haven't got the whole story on this.

Oh God I thought Druge said some stupid shit but this is the worse! How the hell can a 16 year old egg on a congressmen into having sex? IN fact how can a 16 year old seduce a old ass man like Foley?

Republicans have no common sense. And a gay republican said this, ugh again where are the Log Cabinites at?

 

[Roland00]

Anyways, please contact the Human Rights Campaign Fund (or any other gay org you know) and demand that they release a statement that homosexuality and pedophilia are not linked. Indeed the vast majority of pedophiles are hetero. The GOP is claiming they did not go after Foley out of fear of gay-bashing. Bulll!!! Gays are parents too and support strong laws to protect children. Here is the link the to HRC site.

http://www.hrc.org/

Bull, the youngest new report of Foley going after a young page was 16. Thus a post pubescent male. This is not pedophilia, if he had sex it would be stautory rape in some jurisdictions, but it is definately not pedophilia.

It would be pedophilia if the boys were 14 and under.

Note I aint saying what Foley did wasn't illegal and unethical, I am just calling a bird a bird. You cut through political bs, you don't spin it the other way.

 

[Roland00]

The word conserative is in such etymology disrepair currently, that you have no clue what a person truely means when they say it.

It is similar to the language evolution of the word liberal, an 18th century liberal vs a current liberal is a very different thing. Problem is conserative is currently in this language evolution, and thus meaningless for real communication.

 

[Roland00]

I agree. I prefer "authoritarian Republican"

See that is much easier to communicate with. There are plenty of non authoritarian republicans, republicans who believe in small goverment and personal choice ("state rights", small goverment, balance budgets, personal freedom, goverment efficency, economic liberalism). Problem is, none of the Republican leaders are like this, only republican voters are the stripe of non authoritarian.

Of course while there are many republicans voters who are like that the current administration and congress is the authoritarian form of republican. At most 20% of the Republican congress thinks in the non authoritarian form, and even though they think this way, they vote lock step with the authoritarian republicans.

Their beliefs, their corruption, and their general incompotence is why this form of Republican should loose very badly in the election.

 

[Lostlover]

The kid's responses in the chat seem to indicate that he is not averse to holding and continuing the conversation.

My question is: what motivated him to report Foley and precipitate the outing of this story?

Doesn't make it any less illegal if the kid is a willing participant. The adult is supposed to know better.

 

[james1200]

kevin...i don't think the kid "outed" him...what happened, as always happens wit stuff like this..is that the pages started passing the emails around...that's how this stuff always gets out...as far as i know, the pages and their parents don't want any part of this...

lost, nice to see your hot ass in these forums...as well as tierra's hot ass.

 

[phoneguy2]

The kid's responses in the chat seem to indicate that he is not averse to holding and continuing the conversation.

My question is: what motivated him to report Foley and precipitate the outing of this story?

It was two different pages, both underage.

The first, milder e mails are to the kid whose parents reported it. The IM's are from earlier and came to light after the story broke. There are more coming out almost daily and they keep getting worse.

As for the law he broke, it was a federal law passed by congress, written by and sponsered by none other Rep Foley, that makes it a crime to solicit and/or engage in cybersex with anyone under 18.

The lurid IM's coming out now were conducted before he introduced his bill.

So not only has he violated his own legislation he is very stupid.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

He's probably a card carrying member of NAMBLA too.

 

[james1200]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone--as George W. Bush's "favorite philosopher" said once upon a time.

who would that be? spongebob squarepants?

 

[Roland00]

Does any one remember Monica Lewinsky?

Miss Monica was over 21 and a more than willing participant, and the Republicans in Congress started impeachment proceedings against Clinton.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone--as George W. Bush's "favorite philosopher" said once upon a time.

Who are you going to impeach or kick out of office? Foley has already resigned.

 

[Zeremonie]

I'm not disputing that what happened is certainly "bad" conduct, conduct definitely not becoming an official of high public office, etc. As far as whether discussing sexual things with a minor (i.e. cybersex) is illegal, I'm not sure, but soliciting sex certainly is.

There are state crimes and there are federal crimes. State crimes vary hugely from state to state. Federal crimes apply to all of us in the U.S. all the time.

Some states have a crime called Communicating with a minor for immoral purposes which could be a state charge against Foley but usually it's a pretty small little crime. I don't if what he did was a crime. It's ambiguous because it is over the internet - what state has the jurisdiction? And I don't know if any federal crime fits that conduct? You might be able to browse federal crimes and see if something fits, but I just don't know because I'm not up on federal crimes at all.

 

[atswimtwoboys]

who would that be? spongebob squarepants?

Hey, don't dis Spongebob. He'd make a better President than Dubya.

 

[atswimtwoboys]

Who are you going to impeach or kick out of office? Foley has already resigned.

Hastert, Shimkus, Reynolds all come to mind.

 

[Kulindahr]

He's probably a card carrying member of NAMBLA too.

IMHO, NAMBLA deserves to be honored highly by our country --

by sending them to be the first Mars colonists in Bush's space program... except for budget reasons, we won't fill the air bottles on their space suits.

 

[Kulindahr]

Does any one remember Monica Lewinsky?

Miss Monica was over 21 and a more than willing participant, and the Republicans in Congress started impeachment proceedings against Clinton.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone--as George W. Bush's "favorite philosopher" said once upon a time.

The impeachment was because he was guilty of obstructing justice, not because of the sex.
He should have been impeached just for that business about "what the definition of the word 'is' is" -- at least Bush knows the meanings of the words he uses, and doesn't fudge on them... apart from how badly he uses them.

 

[Kulindahr]

Nulla poena sine lege; ex post facto laws do not apply---if the crimes were committed before they officially became laws then he is safe on that technicality, otherwise it is unconstitutional (Article I, Sections 9 and 10)

Maybe he worked on that law and voted for it because he needed to have help restraining himself?

 

[unclaimedblessing]

Something I have a hard time understanding is that with all the dirt digging and mudslinging in elections; how did Foley get so far up the political ladder without being outed?