Creativity at its best

[Telstra]

How can he make a profit out of cleaning the ocean ?

The government, companies and people must pay him to clean up.
Good for him to create a cleaning company.

 

[Kulindahr]

How can he make a profit out of cleaning the ocean ?

The government, companies and people must pay him to clean up.
Good for him to create a cleaning company.

Supposedly by selling the collected plastic for recycling. But after reading the article I linked up in post 19, I think the only way to 'recycle' it would be in a "anything to oil" plant.

 

[TX-Beau]

This thread is reads like a sociological experiment exploring "half full," as opposed to "half empty."

 

[Corny]

Well I have an engineering degree and I think this idea is um ... not thought through. Fine?

It's not this easy - there is a reason that there hasn't been a solution for this yet.

 

[chrisrobin]

This is the kind of thing that can change our world: young, brilliant people not pursuing the power of profit, but pursuing a better world.

Sort of like the Wright Brothers? Two unknown bicycle guys from Dayton, Ohio.

 

[palbert]

Why not engage big trawling or seining rigs?

Pay for them with what we saved gutting food stamps. Or, not bombing Syria @ $500 thou per Tomahawk.

 

[evanrick]

Well I have an engineering degree and I think this idea is um ... not thought through. Fine?

It's not this easy - there is a reason that there hasn't been a solution for this yet.

because people are greedy.

 

[JayHawk]

OK, for the nautical hazard folks: It would have to have a sonar locator and a satellite fed position update so as to not interfere with shipping. Ships are either operated by a computer which receives updates every few seconds from satellite (including navigational hazards) or operated by a person who then plots various obstacles via many methods. It would also have a reflective array to respond to radar and provide clear paint for the radar image. The sonar locator would be to alert submerged vessles as to its location since they can't paint it, cant receive chart updates every few seconds and certainly could hear the damn thing as it is depicted. Also Submarines like to occupy the spaces inbetween where there are not shipping lanes because shipping density makes it harder to arrive at the surface when ya wanna come up.

I am sure they are thinking of those things since it would be required prior to being licensed by whichever county licensed it. Plus there are literally millions of existing navigational hazards that mariners must fix on their charts when approaching a new chunk of ocean. So that is a non-issue.

As to science degrees equating to engineering degree... nay nay moose breath. What i find telling is that "SEVERAL engineers were intrigued by his design". So while I cannot say with any authority, obviously those who saw the design felt it worthy and so did the patent office.

Finally, while this is apparently an exercise in pessimism versus optimism, in spite of the obstacles and nay sayers, i sincerely hope it works out well. If anyone has ever seen one of these gyres, in full 360 degree technicolor, it is the most revolting blight of humanity on the world.

The thing they need to do, right now, is establish identifiers required world wide for either the company or the specific vessel and then required for all materials used aboard. Such chemical stamping could then identify polluters and try them in world court. Countries refusing to participate should then face economic sanctions to include seizing all monetary assets to pay for clean up.

There is really no excuse for not accomplishing such a thing, except the country is in a perpetual deadlock since republicans cant get their way after losing the reigns of control. We cant lead when we are playing tug of war with ourselves.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well I have an engineering degree and I think this idea is um ... not thought through. Fine?

It's not this easy - there is a reason that there hasn't been a solution for this yet.

Yay!

Our practical German weighs in.

 

[Kulindahr]

Why not engage big trawling or seining rigs?

Pay for them with what we saved gutting food stamps. Or, not bombing Syria @ $500 thou per Tomahawk.

Because engines at the surface foul in the crap in the gyres. Ships going through that crap need special filters. Anchoring the rigs to the sea bottom is a good idea to avoid that... but the bottom is 'WAY down there. Putting the engines down below like robot submarines would avoid it, too.

 

[Kulindahr]

OK, for the nautical hazard folks: It would have to have a sonar locator and a satellite fed position update so as to not interfere with shipping. Ships are either operated by a computer which receives updates every few seconds from satellite (including navigational hazards) or operated by a person who then plots various obstacles via many methods. It would also have a reflective array to respond to radar and provide clear paint for the radar image. The sonar locator would be to alert submerged vessles as to its location since they can't paint it, cant receive chart updates every few seconds and certainly couldn't hear the damn thing as it is depicted. Also Submarines like to occupy the spaces inbetween where there are not shipping lanes because shipping density makes it harder to arrive at the surface when ya wanna come up.

I am sure they are thinking of those things since it would be required prior to being licensed by whichever county licensed it. Plus there are literally millions of existing navigational hazards that mariners must fix on their charts when approaching a new chunk of ocean. So that is a non-issue.

As to science degrees equating to engineering degree... nay nay moose breath. What i find telling is that "SEVERAL engineers were intrigued by his design". So while I cannot say with any authority, obviously those who saw the design felt it worthy and so did the patent office.

Finally, while this is apparently an exercise in pessimism versus optimism, in spite of the obstacles and nay sayers, i sincerely hope it works out well. If anyone has ever seen one of these gyres, in full 360 degree technicolor, it is the most revolting blight of humanity on the world.

The thing they need to do, right now, is establish identifiers required world wide for either the company or the specific vessel and then required for all materials used aboard. Such chemical stamping could then identify polluters and try them in world court. Countries refusing to participate should then face economic sanctions to include seizing all monetary assets to pay for clean up.

There is really no excuse for not accomplishing such a thing, except the country is in a perpetual deadlock since republicans cant get their way after losing the reigns of control. We cant lead when we are playing tug of war with ourselves.

I'm guessing you meant the negative I put in red....

Reading this after the "fail!" article, another item occurred to me: any 'passive' system like this is going to have to be something like a Transformer, able to collapse itself into compact, storm-worthy configuration, then redeploy after.

 

[DonQuixote]

I've seen some of the pics of the gyres and read about their locations - yes, they are out of the normal shipping lanes - the material floats on the currents until it hits an intersection of currents that form a mild circular effect, trapping the debris.

I'm wondering if some of the oil eating bacteria could be liberally applied in the areas - or don't they "do" plastics?

It's clear that we need to do something - we are killing a lot of wildlife thousands of miles from "civilization" in the process.

 

[kallipolis]

What do the sea beds have to do wit it? The gyres are on the surface.

Where do think the debris goes?

Oil pollution floating on the sea surface is one factor, debris is very much another for the ocean beds are covered with human produced refuse. Floating booms can only remove surface debris, what of the refuse that lies on the sea bed?

 

[kallipolis]

It also should be noted that heavy oil (unrefined crude oil) coagulates into blobs and sinks to the sea bed. Refined light oil film floating on the surface of the sea can easily be removed by skimming...it's a process that has been used successfully to deal with oil pollution in port areas for over fifty years. I appreciate that oil eating bacteria contributes to the cleaning up process, and is used extensively in those ports where oil tankers regularly spill their various refined products into sea....by accident of course.

 

[T-Rexx]

I'm wondering if some of the oil eating bacteria could be liberally applied in the areas - or don't they "do" plastics?

There are no bacteria that can eat plastic (at least, not "plastic" as we usually think of it). Plastic today is analogous to wood of several million years ago. For most of the world's history, there were no bacteria that could break down wood. Therefore, wood piled upon wood as trees died, creating massive piles of debris which could not break down (and steadily removing CO2 from the atmosphere). Those accumulations of wood eventually transformed into oil and coal over millions of years.

Eventually, bacteria evolved which could, indeed, break down wood. So today, wood rots instead of accumulates.

It is entirely possible that, in a few million years, bacteria may evolve which will break down plastic. If that should happen, plastic will also rot, instead of accumulate. There is an obscure science fiction book, Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters, which speculates on the consequences of a sudden development of plastic-eating bacteria in our modern world. Wires short out due to lack of insulation, cars disintegrate, and airplanes fall from the skies.

It's clear that we need to do something - we are killing a lot of wildlife thousands of miles from "civilization" in the process.

This is a huge problem about which something needs to be done. I do not mean to disparage new ideas or creative thinking or young enthusiasm with my pessimism. But, this idea is hardly new. The concept of garbage-eating drones skimming the oceans has been suggested dozens of times over the past several decades. See, for example:

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/watcleaner-robot-is-the-roomba-for-the-ocean.html

http://coastalenergyandenvironment.web.unc.edu/2012/07/25/drones-devour-drifting-debris/

http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-features/64705-garbage-eating-drone-destroys-ocean-pollution


We have visited the idea of an ocean "Roomba" before. So far, nobody has been able to get it to work, for lots and lots of reasons. I think it makes good press to publish articles that say a 19 y.o. kid has brilliantly solved a problem that has eluded the world's greatest minds for half a century, that we can do it with almost no work, and actually make money in the process!

But, as Corny said, if it was that easy, it would already have been done. All the persistent and serious problems faced by the world are hard. They will require enormous effort, extraordinary international cooperation, and unbelievable amounts of money to solve. But that's not very fun to write about.

 

[kallipolis]

We have visited the idea of an ocean "Roomba" before. So far, nobody has been able to get it to work, for lots and lots of reasons. I think it makes good press to publish articles that say a 19 y.o. kid has brilliantly solved a problem that has eluded the world's greatest minds for half a century, that we can do it with almost no work, and actually make money in the process!

But, as Corny said, if it was that easy, it would already have been done. All the persistent and serious problems faced by the world are hard. They will require enormous effort, extraordinary international cooperation, and unbelievable amounts of money to solve. But that's not very fun to write about.

I concur, for the experience of the ship owning industry here in Piraeus, indicates that such projects are realistic for coastal regions, ports, and those zones where oil rigs are drilling for oil such as the Texas Gulf, and the Arabian Gulf where oil spills are relatively common and the appropriate equipment is on 24 hour standby in nearby ports.

 

[xbuzzerx]

All the persistent and serious problems faced by the world are hard. They will require enormous effort, extraordinary international cooperation, and unbelievable amounts of money to solve. But that's not very fun to write about.

Yup. California still hasn't cleaned up its trapped mercury problem in the in-state waterways from the California Gold Rush. In fact we've probably just added to it with industrial run-off and other heavy operations since the Gold Rush.

It's not that it can't be done, it very much could be. But it would take a lot of time, work, and more importantly, money. Meanwhile we just tell people not to eat fish they catch or to do so at their own risk, and a very small number of groups try to get pamphlets spread around about the effect of mercury on expectant mothers and developing fetuses.

I hope that's not a salutory example of what will likely happen with the trash problem in the world's oceans, but due to the fact that no politician wants to propose spending enormous sums that taxpayers feel like they can't part with for a problem no one cares about as long as it doesn't directly hit them in the face tomorrow, I suspect it will be.

 

[opinterph]

For most of the world's history, there were no bacteria that could break down wood. Therefore, wood piled upon wood as trees died, creating massive piles of debris which could not break down (and steadily removing CO2 from the atmosphere).

That’s interesting. Can you point to a source that describes the process in greater detail?

What Is Wood?​

 

[Kulindahr]

Where do think the debris goes?

Oil pollution floating on the sea surface is one factor, debris is very much another for the ocean beds are covered with human produced refuse. Floating booms can only remove surface debris, what of the refuse that lies on the sea bed?

Did you bother perusing the sources?

 

[Kulindahr]

This is a huge problem about which something needs to be done. I do not mean to disparage new ideas or creative thinking or young enthusiasm with my pessimism. But, this idea is hardly new. The concept of garbage-eating drones skimming the oceans has been suggested dozens of times over the past several decades. See, for example:

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/watcleaner-robot-is-the-roomba-for-the-ocean.html

http://coastalenergyandenvironment.web.unc.edu/2012/07/25/drones-devour-drifting-debris/

http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainability-features/64705-garbage-eating-drone-destroys-ocean-pollution


We have visited the idea of an ocean "Roomba" before. So far, nobody has been able to get it to work, for lots and lots of reasons. I think it makes good press to publish articles that say a 19 y.o. kid has brilliantly solved a problem that has eluded the world's greatest minds for half a century, that we can do it with almost no work, and actually make money in the process!

I remember the first one -- the biggest problem was protecting the motors from the trash, the same issue that has stymied designs for ships to scoop the stuff up. The big innovation of the new one is throwing out motors and letting the current do the work.