Dating outside your race

[bankside]

Who are we kidding love discriminates.

Ethnicity, "race" (which is an invented construct - what is "white" for example) cultural context - with all the inherent baggage and history most definitely influences our choices of partner and what we find attractive.

It's not being reasonable to say otherwise. So long as you are aware of that, and you aren't some kind of hater, it is what it is.

I think it really depends where you grow up and the way a community handles the issue.

 

[TX-Beau]

hence the "cultural context.'

 

[mcbrion]

First of all guys, "race" is a social construct. But for the purpose of staying on the question, I've got considerable experience with this, so let me give it a shot.
I'm Black and I lived in San francisco from 1976 to 2002. I was naturally well-built, and then started working out steadily (I'd done it in high school, as well, but high school gyms in the 60s were not put there for working out). I became one of the "Big Boys,' but, being Black and having been an activist, I always had the activist mentality.
SO. When I date someone who's White, I ask about their experience dating Black men. What they like about My ETHNICITY. If it only comes down to "contrast of skin," (a bit racist, but also based on sex, not compatibility), and fantasies ("I want a Big Black guy to fuck me silly"), I know I'm not talking to someone of a high level of consciousness. I also realize that our friends are reflections of US - where we are at this moment in time. You would not see the Dalai Llama and Saddam Hussein hanging out.
If you want to find out about who it "bothers," (and frankly, if you're Black, this is something you're going to have to deal with, so instead of looking at others, just focus on you - and why you expect it to be otherwise. Racism is hardly dead), find out what the guy you're about to date is like. If he's an unformed personality, so will his friends be. If you're dating someone you've done a "checkup from the neck up", you should have your answer about what you'll encounter among his friends. If you're talking about the general gay population, well...that's just foolish. You might as well ask why people have such strong feeelings about..Oprah. Or George Romney. Or President Obama. You seem not to see that people are who they are, and being bothered by who they are is a complete waste of time.
When I lived in San Francisco, my (White) buddies (not my closest friends, most of whom were black) would say, "You only date White guys." To which I'd ask, "What makes you say that." "Well, I only see you with White guys." "Well, umm...Black men into other Black men don't come into the Castro, which is 99% white, so when I DO hang out with brothers, you're not seeing me with them because we're not in the Castro. Oh, by the way, that's a bit racist of you to say that." That would provoke an spluttering respondse of "No, I'm not. " And I'd say, 'Yes, you are. But don't worry about it. If I only socialized with White guys who weren't racist at all, I wouldn't have ANY white friends to socialize with. But you really ought to look at that more closely." And one of my buddies got it - 20 YEARS LATER, when he was a waiter and the last couple he served were Black and he told me he thought they'd give a lousy tip. And then, his experience with them was wonderful (they inquired about him and laughed with him and left him a BIG tip) and he realized that he'd only looked at their skin color and nothing else and come to that conclusion. He was very embarrassed when he told me this, but I assured him he was a good human being, and this was just one of his "blind spots."
So, you're running up against people with blind spots. SO WHAT?!? Is your happiness determined by the acceptance of others? If so, you're in trouble, brother. Now, you might be very young (I'm 62, so I was alive when being Black skin was not only not cool, but downright DANGEROUS to live in, and I could be in parts of Boston and be susceptible to being killed - and this was 1973!!!) You sound unskilled in separating those (Black AND White) who have no higher consciousness than to see ONLY skin color - and you let it bother you. Use this to REALIZE that these people are emotionally, spiritually and psychologically under-developed and stay inside your OWN SKIN and not be subject to the comments of others. As the Chinese used to say, if you are not grounded, you will be buffeted by the winds and blown all over the place (they said it more eloquently, but that's the essence of it). You are WAY too sensitive to what others think. I mean this kindly: Grow up, as in become more enlightened about human nature. The more you understand about the foibles of others, the less their comments will disturb you.
And may i ask, what city/state are you in? If you live in some narrow-minded, bigoted town, you should already be expecting this. And don't expect the gay population to be any more enlightened than the straight one. People are individuals and they feed off those they hang out with.

 

[mcbrion]

And I like LuckysRevenge, Chuck69 and Psycean's responses. They are all spot on (and Chuck's is just flat-out witty!) And I really like the "not dating outside my race, but inside my species," comment because ethnicity (the technically correct term for it) just means different cultural values and beliefs. I cannot abide the word "race" because there is only ONE race for mankind: Human. To thing anything else indicates you are a person of prejudice (like a person of interest, as the police now say), only less admirable. My mother's side of the family, by the way, is White and and Chicahominy Indian (from Charles, City VA). There's also Black mixed in, but it's not all that visible. You can type in Chickahominy and get my family history. But that's what spared me from having color issues: cousins so white that a KKK Grand Imperial Wizard would've reached out to them if they walked into a meeting and said, "Brother! We welcome you to the KKK. Please join us!" It makes me giggle to think of how horrified they'd be if they realized the ethnic background of my cousins, people that, had they (the KKK) known their genetic makeup, they would have taken them outside and hung them from the nearest tree.

 

[syoBsUtsuJ]

Just a hypothesis here, but I believe that a lot of us are uncomfortable in his or her own perceived lots in life. I am an instructor at a Native American community college, but even before then while doing my internships per my degrees I noticed that some people of color have a prejudice against their own race (or more specifically, him or her being of their own race). The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence kind of thing. I'm comfortable being a European mutt, but I've always wished that I had an ethnicity of three of color to offset my blinding whiteness. Now as to that pertains to this subject is subjective to the individual prejudicing against a specific race for whatever reason.

I've dated primarily white due to racial ratio here, but I've also dated a black, a Native American, and a half-Filipino. I would include an Asian, but he (personally) was a pompous ass that was rude to the waiter throughout a meal that I left mid-date. I did tip that waiter the cost of our meal and drinks, in case the idiot tried to leave without paying, plus the standard 20% tip; I told him not to tell Mr. Asshole about it, because should he pay, he deserves every cent of that as a tip for tolerating such an arse!

I am friends with all and find most to be desirable, but I do not date rudeness, bias, stupidity, or even much less a color. I do have prejudices against guys with long fingernails, but that's a cultural thing that I'm working on! Ha ha, we all have our own idiosyncrasies!!! For instance, I love gazing upon a ripped guy, but I haven't gone there since my second BF. I never enjoyed the sex, as I was constantly comparing his body to mine. I've done exponential hours of cardio-exercises and sit-up/crunches, but you'll never be able to wash your delicates on my abs.

Be true to who you are. We all do as we do until we learn better. Live and let live, and insert whatever cliche springs to mind here.

 

[ruivinho]

Frankly it scares me that this kind of stuff is even a matter of discussion. You feel attracted to whomever you feel attracted to, some people tend to like what they perceive to be "exotic" (be it outside the "race" or the culture), some tend to like what they perceive to be more "familiar".

It really is that simple. It's a whole different subject if you consciously decided to limt yourself to a group (be it "exotic" or "familiar"), but if you don't.....

 

[syoBsUtsuJ]

I agree with ruivho ... it's like families that open their Xman presents on Christmas Eve over those that have to wait until Christmas morning!

Frankly it scares me that this kind of stuff is even a matter of discussion. You feel attracted to whomever you feel attracted to, some people tend to like what they perceive to be "exotic" (be it outside the "race" or the culture), some tend to like what they perceive to be more "familiar".

It really is that simple. It's a whole different subject if you consciously decided to limt yourself to a group (be it "exotic" or "familiar"), but if you don't.....

 

[mcbrion]

"Feeling attracted to" is quite different than "knowing WHY you are attracted to." And It should scare you more that there is NOT a discussion about it. Some people operate from the plane of unconsciousness. Until they know what they like about a culture or ethnicity, how they place value on it. You may be able, when you're 20, to date whoever you want, but by 30, you should know what you value in the group of your erotic focus or else deal with the ''r" word. Besides, if you find guys of other ages attractive, don't you reveal what it is you value about them? Same with other ethnicities. Attraction is not enough. It's only a small step. Attraction is selfish: it's all about you. So, you're attracted. Brilliant. Now, then ...what do you have that relates to them or their life? Are you oNLY going to go off desire?

 

[mcbrion]

no, you have to answer to the minority guy, or else, he's just an experiment, although one who can ask "What were you thinking when you asked me out? What did you hope would happen? Did you like me or just want me?" These are the things we minorities want to know. You don't get to make these rules, bud. And it's ONLY 2013, Not 10,013. Only 50 years ago people hanged those of us of different ethnicities. Maybe for you, that's just history. For me, that's my life story - and not out of a history book. If you want to date me, you should be able to tell me why.

 

[bruce379]

Originally Posted by HunterM
I don't have a problem with people dating other races. I have a problem with people dating other species.

Seriously, you'll upset the lunatic fringe...

yup i'm totally against it too.

Have you guys been to Harlem? Damn, there are some pretty handsome boys right there
I like Afghan and Pakistani guys too
I hooked up with an Arab guy one time, actually several times, full beard and all, looked like bin Laden hot muthafuker best cocksucker ever

My advice: widen your horizons. I bet that if there were a lot more gay Israelis and Palestinians, you would see peace in that damn peace of land because then you'll see those hot Jewish guys and hot Arab guys practice "love your fellow men" to the letter

 

[ruivinho]

no, you have to answer to the minority guy, or else, he's just an experiment, although one who can ask "What were you thinking when you asked me out? What did you hope would happen? Did you like me or just want me?" These are the things we minorities want to know. You don't get to make these rules, bud. And it's ONLY 2013, Not 10,013. Only 50 years ago people hanged those of us of different ethnicities. Maybe for you, that's just history. For me, that's my life story - and not out of a history book. If you want to date me, you should be able to tell me why.

I'm afraid I might not have understood your point completely, however I'll answer with what I've got.

I agree that racism is not just history yet, slavery, for example, was not that long time ago and the perception of blacks as slaves has largely influenced how people perceive blacks, maybe so far as in today (and also because slavery and the post-discrimination led to serious consequences such as the current disadvantage of blacks)

However, as you said, these things happen in an unconscious level that it is very hard to control, if not impossible. And if I owe to anyone to broaden my horizons by defying those "basic" attractions that I have is to Myself, and Not to You (as in the the Minority You). If i do that for You I'll be acting from pity, I don't see how that can generate attraction. That's because attraction is indeed selfish, and that's the only way it can be.

But look, in the end, we have to give time to time. Yes, if there is an unconscious bias towards attractions to different races that - might - be associated with conscious discrimination that was made in the past. But it'll only fade away with time.

Also, from what I realize, most people have preferences on race that are far from binding, and in the end, don't you rather stick with someone that likes you for who you are more than for how much they are attracted to you?

It does scare me that this is a matter of discussion, because the only reason that it is it's because there is:
1. An apparent bias in sexual attraction to ethnicies
2. A counter-culture to that apparent bias that tries to scare people from minorities into fuck amongst themselves (by excluding them from "the group" if they do not - like the author is being!)

I'd say that's quite sad, wouldn't you?

I say: Fuck everyone else's opinion on to whom I am sexually attracted to. Let my dick decide that. Is it not enough I have to deal with the fact that some people can't accepted that my dick prefers men, I also have to deal with people who can't accept that my dick prefers exotic or familiar?
Of course, for those whose dick only gets erect to a certain ethnicity, that can be quite limiting, but it is up to them to decide whether they want to test those boundaries or not.

 

[HorndogPaul]

Until now I've only dated within my race (white) but now dating a Hispanic. For me it is more based on the individual.

I feel as if that Is something else our culture is going to take time to get use to. It's like as our culture is getting more use to/ok with gay they are not as accepting of interracial.

 

[Pyscean]

Until now I've only dated within my race (white) but now dating a Hispanic. For me it is more based on the individual.

I feel as if that Is something else our culture is going to take time to get use to. It's like as our culture is getting more use to/ok with gay they are not as accepting of interracial.

In the end, it should be about the individual but unfortunately the road to that point is usually not that clearly marked. From my perspective, there seems to be a level of xenophobia among guys that only date within in their own "race". Couple that with our tendencies to stick with what's familiar and you've got a basis for why a lot of guys, black, white, asian, etc. only date within their own races. Throw in socio-economic factors and that tends to lock things in even more.

And gay culture seems to be in the same place as (maybe evening lagging behind to a certain degree) society in general in terms of interracial relationships. Interracial relationships in the media (movies, television) are less and less "shocking" and more the norm now, but in real life gay relationships, we still are not nearly as accepting "AS SEEN ON TV". Especially when it comes down to black and white men dating.

 

[vater292]

no, you have to answer to the minority guy, or else, he's just an experiment, although one who can ask "What were you thinking when you asked me out? What did you hope would happen? Did you like me or just want me?" These are the things we minorities want to know. You don't get to make these rules, bud. And it's ONLY 2013, Not 10,013. Only 50 years ago people hanged those of us of different ethnicities. Maybe for you, that's just history. For me, that's my life story - and not out of a history book. If you want to date me, you should be able to tell me why.

If you really feel someone should have to answer to you simply because you are a minority that is quite pathetic. None of those questions directly have anything to do with you being a minority and are really far for anyone to ask anyone if they want to know why there partner was initially attracted to them. But to actually expect someone to have to answer to someone simply because they are a minority is completely stupid.

 

[Taralen]

we still are not nearly as accepting "AS SEEN ON TV". Especially when it comes down to black and white men dating.

Why should we be? I love the fact of a taboo interracial gay couple living their happy lives. Society isn't ready for that shit and putting it on tv is going to make it cheesy. Don't ruin a good special thing.

Not some Modern Family, Glee bullshit trying to capitalize it with the media. With people pretending to be accepting of it, in reality they aren't.

There is a reason Noah's Arc had no interracial content. I'm glad it didn't because we aren't ready for that yet.

 

[Rolyo85]

If you really feel someone should have to answer to you simply because you are a minority that is quite pathetic. None of those questions directly have anything to do with you being a minority and are really far for anyone to ask anyone if they want to know why there partner was initially attracted to them. But to actually expect someone to have to answer to someone simply because they are a minority is completely stupid.

Yeah, this whole "you must defend a thesis if you want to date me" attitude leads to a long and meaningful life of being single...

 

[Pyscean]

Why should we be? I love the fact of a taboo interracial gay couple living their happy lives. Society isn't ready for that shit and putting it on tv is going to make it cheesy. Don't ruin a good special thing.

Not some Modern Family, Glee bullshit trying to capitalize it with the media. With people pretending to be accepting of it, in reality they aren't.

There is a reason Noah's Arc had no interracial content. I'm glad it didn't because we aren't ready for that yet.

The reason Noah's Arc came about was mainly in direct response to Queer As Folk's lack of diversity. You obviously haven't or hadn't seen the show DTLA which stars Noah's Arc alum Darryl Stephens... and guess what..he's in a relationship with a man not of his race. There's no shock and nothing unusual about it. Nothing cheesy about it. It's about their relationship...not about their race. There's no taboo in it. They're not sneaking around trying to hide it or defend it. It..just..is. And Noah's Arc is about as cheesy as it gets when talking about relationships.

And saying that society (which I'm sure you mean gay society) isn't ready for it is like saying general society isn't ready to accept that gays exist. That's silly. When you look at the media, in particular Hollywood, you see it all the time. James Earl Jones, Robert DeNiro, Alfre Woodard, Iman, and George Lucas are just a few that are either black/African-American, of black African descent, or have a spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend of black African descent. Some gay celeb types would be Shaun T., Denis O'Hare and Nick Denton. Why wouldn't the rest of us not-so-famous types be open to the same acceptance of love and attraction?

 

[Taralen]

DTLA? Oh since you brought it up. Let me refresh my horrid memories about it.

Brian and Lenny break up on the first episode.

The other black gay couple also break up on the second episode.

The show was badly produced and the storyline was horrible. It focused more on straight issues than gay.

The asian gay man is blackmailed by his underage stripper student into getting him fired from his teaching job.

It showed nothing positive towards the gay community and men of color.

It is also a show that had little and practically no advertising and promotion and I honestly don't see it coming back.

I had totally forgotten about the show until you reminded me of it.

I'm not saying that I don't want society to ever accept it. I'm still in my 20's so I'm hoping for a change.

I just think Hollywood and the television and the media in general have an agenda, and right now that isn't the top priority.

If they are going to showcase a gay man in the entertainment field, he's going to be white, and so is his partner.

Any exceptions would be reality television or documentaries or personal lives.

Lee Daniel's (director of hit movies "Precious" and "The Butler") partner is a white actor, but none of this is relevant.

 

[Pyscean]

DTLA? Oh since you brought it up. Let me refresh my horrid memories about it.

Brian and Lenny break up on the first episode.

The other black gay couple also break up on the second episode.

The show was badly produced and the storyline was horrible. It focused more on straight issues than gay.

The asian gay man is blackmailed by his underage stripper student into getting him fired from his teaching job.

It showed nothing positive towards the gay community and men of color.

It is also a show that had little and practically no advertising and promotion and I honestly don't see it coming back.

I had totally forgotten about the show until you reminded me of it.

I'm not saying that I don't want society to ever accept it. I'm still in my 20's so I'm hoping for a change.

I just think Hollywood and the television and the media in general have an agenda, and right now that isn't the top priority.

If they are going to showcase a gay man in the entertainment field, he's going to be white, and so is his partner.

Any exceptions would be reality television or documentaries or personal lives.

Lee Daniel's (director of hit movies "Precious" and "The Butler") partner is a white actor, but none of this is relevant.

The original post in this thread regards someone that wanted a bit more understanding/insight as to why there are difficulties within the gay community accepting the concept of dating outside of one's race..and in particular, the conflict between gay black men that choose to date outside of their race and those that don't.

I used DTLA as vehicle to illustrate the diversity of dating relationships. Who breaks up, who stays together, and who's being blackmailed is irrelevant to my point. The success/failure of relationships almost never is the result of race. And I say almost never because sometimes people enter a relationship purely as an experiment i.e. I wonder what it's like to date/have sex with a <insert random demographic classification>.

Also, acceptance of a concept or idea need not be 100% to make it valid. I was pointing out the inter-racial couples in the entertainment industry to illustrate that it exists on all levels. It may not be for everyone but there's no need for anyone to demean and degrade the relationship simply because they don't agree with it. You're going to find large and small areas of society that keeps to themselves.

Society is already making major strides towards accepting straight inter-racial relationships, but the gay community still has a ways to go to accepting its own diversity. I'm verging on 40 years old and one thing I've learned is that I'm always proud of my boyfriend/partner (and now I can actually call him husband when I finally find him). That pride comes not from a similar ethnic heritage, but from a similar way of thinking and communicating. It comes from a similar drive and ambition as well as similar pursuits when it comes to career aspirations and recreational pursuits among other things. It comes from me being happy with him for who he is in total. If he happens to be of the same ethnic background...great, but I'm not going to rule out a potential love interest simply because society, gay or otherwise, isn't supposedly ready for it.

 

[Taralen]

The original post in this thread regards someone that wanted a bit more understanding/insight as to why there are difficulties within the gay community accepting the concept of dating outside of one's race..and in particular, the conflict between gay black men that choose to date outside of their race and those that don't.

I used DTLA as vehicle to illustrate the diversity of dating relationships. Who breaks up, who stays together, and who's being blackmailed is irrelevant to my point. The success/failure of relationships almost never is the result of race. And I say almost never because sometimes people enter a relationship purely as an experiment i.e. I wonder what it's like to date/have sex with a <insert random demographic classification>.

Also, acceptance of a concept or idea need not be 100% to make it valid. I was pointing out the inter-racial couples in the entertainment industry to illustrate that it exists on all levels. It may not be for everyone but there's no need for anyone to demean and degrade the relationship simply because they don't agree with it. You're going to find large and small areas of society that keeps to themselves.

Society is already making major strides towards accepting straight inter-racial relationships, but the gay community still has a ways to go to accepting its own diversity. I'm verging on 40 years old and one thing I've learned is that I'm always proud of my boyfriend/partner (and now I can actually call him husband when I finally find him). That pride comes not from a similar ethnic heritage, but from a similar way of thinking and communicating. It comes from a similar drive and ambition as well as similar pursuits when it comes to career aspirations and recreational pursuits among other things. It comes from me being happy with him for who he is in total. If he happens to be of the same ethnic background...great, but I'm not going to rule out a potential love interest simply because society, gay or otherwise, isn't supposedly ready for it.

I totally understand. But the media plays a big part as to how society plays. Everyone watches television, reads magazines, watches movies etc. Young and old. All races.

Twerking has been around since the 80s. Due to Miley Cyrus' controversial Video Music Awards performance, it has resurrected into popularity. All because of this videos on youtube of people twerking proclaiming that it's a new fad and craze makes me sick.

Scandal is a very popular television series right now. It is one of the first to showcase a black female in a lead role having an interracial relationship. Black women and white men relationships are still frowned upon in this society, especially in America. Unlike black men and white women relationships. Black women are more willing to date men of other races, not limited to white because of that.

DTLA just wasn't good enough to hold your argument.

The only good show which could win your argument would be Modern Family which is one of the highest rated shows on television which feature both white partners, and no black characters period.

And I used to disagree with this statement as before I thought it was gay black men who were refusing to date white men, but due to the fact that I've talked to other gay black men and men of color in general who were associates of mine, not to mention I've tried online dating, networking, parties, meeting people at work, and I've come to the fact that white men might flirt and have fantasies of the big black dick syndrome, but in reality when it comes to interracial they are interested in black men the least, and asian men are at the top of the totem pole with probably any other race in between or below black men in rare cases.

And I'm only speaking of my experiences and friends experiences, as the same issues could happen to straight interracial couples, but the majority of the white men that I've been with and I've felt were going to be my soul mate, never wanted to go on dates. It was always late night adventures at his house, he wouldn't allow me to text him at certain times, he did heavy drug and alcohol abuse, I wasn't allowed at his house, his family had beef with me, sex was too kinky (not that I have a problem with it, but some of the things were a little extreme), I couldn't take pictures of him, etc. Just some common stereotypes that really aren't ever discussed but happen always. Mainly because interracial relationships for the most part are still taboo in the United States, straight or gay.

I totally agree to some parts of what you said, but just understand that entertainment plays a big part of it.

Plus it's four minorities being jumbled together.

1.Gay
2.Gay person of color.
3.Interracial couple
4.Gay Interracial couple.