Debate Thread 2/26

[Lostlover]

I don't believe in kicking people while they're down... but DAMN Hillary blew it.

First the "whatever" comment to the new Russian leader... well "leader"...

Then the "this is sexist because they ask me all the questions first" complaint... that was uncalled for. The last debate on CNN, Obama won the coin tossed and chose for Hillary to go first.

Stick a fork in her campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if she dropped out before the Tues primary.

PS: That was a cheap shot by Russert asking Hillary is she knew the new pres (or soon to be pres) of Russia's name.

 

[syntax]

Is it just me or does Tim Russert look like Hillary Clinton's twin?

I "watched" the debate on MSNBC's internet feed. It was constantly interrupted so I didn't catch everything.

I thought most of Russert's questions were inane. Two hypotheticals: Iraq's government asks US forces to leave in six months and Russia invades Kosovo? WTF, is he a political science professor leading a seminar? Get real and ask straight questions.

Then this nonsense about the NAME of the incoming President of Russia?

From what I saw, I'd call it a draw. But that means Sen. Clinton loses.

 

[Zingerific]

Then this nonsense about the NAME of the incoming President of Russia?

I disagree, it wasn't nonsense. Bush was almost destroyed in 2000 when he was asked a series of world leaders and couldn't. It was a huge deal then, so the candidates should have seen it comming.

That question about Russian politics could have been a disaster for Obama. If they had asked Obama that first and he didn't know the guys name that would have been played over and over again.

If he didn't know, he should have said "It doesn't matter, Putin's still in charge." HA!

Then the "this is sexist because they ask me all the questions first" complaint... that was uncalled for.

I don't know if it was uncalled for, but whatever she was trying to do with it, it backfired. She made a fool of herself; doubly so, following it up with that SNL reference.
Anyway, I voted tie (which, given Obama's lead, means an Obama win). No big mistakes, no big slam dunks. Basically, I thought it was a wash.

 

[syntax]

I disagree, it wasn't nonsense. Bush was almost destroyed in 2000 when he was asked a series of world leaders and couldn't. It was a huge deal then, so the candidates should have seen it comming.

If he didn't know, he should have said "It doesn't matter, Putin's still in charge." HA!

Anyway, I voted tie (which, given Obama's lead, means an Obama win). No big mistakes, no big slam dunks. Basically, I thought it was a wash.

It was nonsense in 2000 when Bush could not name Musharraf and it is nonsense now. Smart-ass, smug reporters like Russert playing "gotcha." It's easy when you are asking the question and you know the answer.

I agree that it was a wash. And that means Sen. Obama won.

 

[Sammie13]

I have watched 80% of the Dem debates and picked Hillary (or Biden back in the day) as the winner of every one of them. Tonight, I really thought it was Obama as the victor. Hillary was pushing (because she has to at this desperate time) and it showed. I thought she looked bad during the first hour. She won the last half-hour. And Obama reduced the # of "uh, uh, uh, uh", which really won some favor with me.

If they could drop the socialized medicine stuff. And could they, just once for fun, talk about lowering taxes and the deficit? Quit spending my hard-earned money!!! (wow, I feel better now)

 

[tmb1]

If they could drop the socialized medicine stuff. And could they, just once for fun, talk about lowering taxes and the deficit? Quit spending my hard-earned money!!! (wow, I feel better now)

You must be in the top 1% income bracket then.

 

[Sammie13]

You must be in the top 1% income bracket then.

I thought most wage earners wanted to keep more of their own money. You've earned it! I would think that all 100% of wage earners would appreciate keeping more of their own money. Enough is enough...you can't have all my $.

And look at how the govt has run medicare and social security. Look at the IRS. Look at the dept of motor vehicle. Look at the joke that many public schools have become. I definitely don't want them nationalizing health care. Can you imagine the chaos? When they mandated medicare part D it was surreal and I don't know any seniors who like it.

The Democrats mean well, but the pandering gets out of control. Sometimes I feel like they're saying, "your so stupid, just let us help run your life." Hillary/Obama should sometimes talk more about people being accountable for their lives. Instead, they just play Santa Claus.

Tmb1...why can't everyone be as festive as you are in your avator; that's would be me celebrating when I get a big income tax refund

 

[Zingerific]

It was nonsense in 2000 when Bush could not name Musharraf and it is nonsense now. Smart-ass, smug reporters like Russert playing "gotcha." It's easy when you are asking the question and you know the answer.

I basically agree. What I was trying to get at was, given the question was asked in 2000, and the upcoming Russian election, it was a question they should be ready for, silly or not. I guess I was looking at the question as a test of whether they had done their homework... but your mileage may vary.

You do see a difference between sitting world leaders and upcoming world leaders, right? Is there a difference? I at least make that distinction, especially in light of Putin basically playing puppet master and these two are sitting senators campaigning for months now, but look forward to you putting me in the right perspective.

Sure. That was my little joke about what Obama's response should be was about. Then again, everyone who was paying attention knew that Gordon Brown was taking over from Tony Blair. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect candidates to know, say, the Leaders of the Opposition of major countries -- after all, the winner of this primary process will be a Leader of the Opposition, in manner of speaking.

 

[PabloZed]

I enjoyed tonight's debate for the most part. Obama seemed more poised and very presidential. He is unflappable. I do wish he had said more about Russia, but that's because I have studied Russia (literature, history, and its politics). The point that needed to be made is that Russia is using its petrodollars to cause havoc and this is just one more reason to go green.

Clinton lost tonight because of unnecessary theatrics. The comment about getting the first question was petty for someone aspiring to be president. At the start of the campaign Obama always got the first question. And as far as being a target in the debate I refer everyone back to the New Hampshire debate where the moderator gave each republican candidate free time to go after Obama when he was not present to defend himself.

I also thought Clinton overdid it on healthcare. It was as if she would not stop unless she got the last word. I believe she not only lost the debate tonight but also lost Ohio.

 

[syntax]

^^I agree. He is unflappable. It's quite remarkable.

Sen. Clinton once again appeared inauthentic with the SNL reference and the lame joke - trying to be cool when she is clearly not.

She would not shut up about health care. But then she's "passionate" about it.

 

[Zingerific]

The comment about getting the first question was petty for someone aspiring to be president.

I don't know if it was petty, because I have no idea what she was talking about. Whatever point she was trying to make, she didn't make it.

I don't know if going first is an advantage or disadvantage -- if she thought she was being treated unfairly, she sure didn't explain how.

 

[syntax]

Sen. Clinton was referring to a skit on SNL that "spoofed" preferential media treatment of Sen. Obama. Like her "Xerox" comment it was ineffectual and fell flat.

 

[snapcat]

What are we going to do if this is the last Dem debate?

I guess it's back to bashing Bush for a little while, eh?

 

[NickCole]

Health care is one of the top issues for Americans today, and Hillary was right to push discussion about it because Barack Obama is misleading voters about her plan.

The Obama flyer that Hillary took issue with last weekend states, “Hillary’s health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it.” And Obama repeated that last night. It's not true.

Some salient points and a link to a Wall Street Journal article comparing the plans:

Mrs. Clinton charges that Mr. Obama's plan would leave 15 million people without insurance. Outside experts agree that number is in the ballpark. If people aren't required by law to buy insurance, many won't. There are millions of children, for instance, who remain uninsured, even though they qualify for free or subsidized government programs.

In addition, all three candidates want to bar insurance companies from rejecting sick people or charging them more. But it is hard to require companies to insure expensive sick people if they aren't guaranteed that cheap healthy people will balance them out.

On the campaign trail, Mrs. Clinton has attacked Mr. Obama for his plan, saying it betrays the Democratic principle of universal coverage. ...

Mr. Obama has replied that her attacks are more about politics than substance; they didn't come, he noted, until she lost ground in the polls. But his advisers don't dispute her central charge. Rather, they claim Mrs. Clinton's plan would also leave millions without coverage. ...

That view may not be true. Ken Thorpe, a health-policy expert at Emory University who has advised all three major Democrats, said he ran cost estimates for the Clinton plan at the Clinton campaign's request, and found there should be enough money to make insurance affordable for all. ...

The Obama plan does some other things to get people insurance. It allows adults up to age 25 to stay on their parents' insurance even if they aren't in school. And it attempts to lower the cost of insurance overall through a reinsurance plan, whereby the federal government would cover some expenses of some of the most costly patients.

Outside experts note that the Clinton and Obama plans propose spending about the same amount of money, while Mr. Obama uses some of his to pay for the reinsurance plan -- an initiative that could cost tens of billions of dollars. That should help lower premiums across the board, but it means there would be less available for direct subsidies. ...

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB119681696156513818.html

 

[smelter]

What are we going to do if this is the last Dem debate?

I guess it's back to bashing Bush for a little while, eh?

.... and not a moment too soon! It should be interesting to see how many incumbent Republicans will want him on the stump for their campaigns.

 

[JackFTwist]

Health care is one of the top issues for Americans today, and Hillary was right to push discussion about it because Barack Obama is misleading voters about her plan.

The Obama flyer that Hillary took issue with last weekend states, “Hillary’s health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it.” And Obama repeated that last night. It's not true.

Some salient points and a link to a Wall Street Journal article comparing the plans:

For all your hectoring of the good Senator, your charge that what he said is "not true" is based on conjecture and opinion. We have a critical failure to read all the words. As you accuse him, read what you posted again

That view may not be true. Ken Thorpe, a health-policy expert at Emory University who has advised all three major Democrats, said he ran cost estimates for the Clinton plan at the Clinton campaign's request, and found there should be enough money to make insurance affordable for all. ...

Your own citation says it "may not be true" so where in the world do you get the authority to claim that what Obama says of the same thing is "not true." And you have one person saying there should be - not will be but should be - enough money available.

By your own standards what Obama says is legitimate. This attack on him, however, is not.

 

[PabloZed]

Following his strong performance last night, Obama's campaign has crossed the 1,000,000 donor threshold!!!!!

We have not seen real "Obamamania" yet. Wait until he officially secures the nomination. McCain and all the haters are going to get lost in the media frenzy in the states and abroad.

 

[NickCole]

For all your hectoring of the good Senator, your charge that what he said is "not true" is based on conjecture and opinion. We have a critical failure to read all the words. As you accuse him, read what you posted again

Since the discussion is about proposals rather than a program with resultant data of course it's all conjecture and opnion. But the opinion is from a respected health care expert who advised all three --Edwards, Clinton and Obama-- about their plans.

Your own citation says it "may not be true" so where in the world do you get the authority to claim that what Obama says of the same thing is "not true."

Because he claims, “Hillary’s health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it.”

That's an absolute assertion. And as such it is not true.

It may help him win the nomination but it is not the truth.

Further, his own expert's opinion is:

Ken Thorpe, a health-policy expert at Emory University who has advised all three major Democrats, said he ran cost estimates for the Clinton plan at the Clinton campaign's request, and found there should be enough money to make insurance affordable for all.

That's what his own expert says.

Hillary Clinton is being straightforward with the voters.

Barack Obama is misleading voters.

 

[Telstra]

the poll is clever !!!

i can see who votes for who.

 

[sixthson]

Hillary just seems plain mean tonight. On the other hand, Obama's smile is bigger than ever.

This is all he has ever had to do to win...just keep his mouth shut, smile pretty and she hangs herself. She has never been able to overcome the preception that she is disliked within her own party. It's compounded now by his rock star popularity. The fact that she is hated, doesn't mean she would be a bad president any more than the fact that he is beloved would make him a great one. When the rubber meets the road, personality perceptions won't mean much.

I watched parts of the debate and didn't feel there was a clear winner, but it is obvious Hillary is already seen as the loser by her own kind...the democrats.