Deeply, Deeply Confused!!

[thephoenix]

Okay, I have been thinking and thinking on this and just can't seem to find a path to a solution that I can be satisfied with. I was hoping to get some advice on how to proceed.

Me and my best friend have been having a pretty rough year; at the start of it we were at each other's throats over silly things. Then we fooled around about two months ago. So, he knows about my sexuality and he himself is bisexual. Again, we went through a rough patch because he was uncomfortable, but we got over it and we're (I thought) closer than ever. I went through a dark period and am ashamed to say I tried to kill myself which upset my friend. He went on about how he loved me and how I was the only friend of his who knew everything about him and how he could show his weaknesses to me and no one else and couldn't take it if something happened to me, blah blah but not to take that the wrong way because even if he was completely gay he could never love me like that. I was like okay, self centered much.

Anyway, we've been fine since. However, lately, he has been riding me about "moods" and "attitude" which I'll admit I have been a little short and quiet, but most of the time I just haven't been chatty. But he still gets all over me about being in a mood and how he has to walk on egg crates every time he's around me. So, I make an effort to be chatty and friendly. The past week we've only been able to talk on the phone because we've been so busy. He's been fine except on Saturday I call and he doesn't answer so I left him a voice mail just asking how he's doing. He doesn't call me back and so I call him on Sunday and he is a complete jerk to me; answers the phone "Yeah" and is short with me the entire 45 second conversation. I called him today and asked how he was and he blew up at me for asking him how he was. He says "I don't want you asking me how I am. You are getting too emotional and I'm a man and I don't want to talk about my feelings." Apparently, I had been emotional on Saturday because I called to see how he was. And I am trying to keep up with him. He doesn't want me to ask him how he is and just makes this big to do about how he's a man and we've talked about this.

Now, I don't know about you guys, but asking how someone is, is like breathing to me. I was brought up to ask how someone is. I ask complete strangers who acknowledge my presence how they are. To me, it is the polite thing to do and helps strike a conversation. I'm feeling like I can't do anything right with him. I pull back and do the "man thing" and am quiet and not ask how he is and he gets on me for being in a mood and when I go the opposite direction he bites my head off for being too "female." What's it take???

I'm incredibly confused because I don't really know how to talk to him when he is like this (he seems to go through cycles; the last one occurring during his divorce) so I avoid him and he told a mutual friend that I vanished and won't talk to him. Which is why I called him today.

For the most part we have great conversations and laugh together, but like I said he has cycles where he tries to make me miserable (feels like anyway). In a couple of days he'll be fine but stick by his opinion that I was being needy and female. I don't like that he brings up how he is a man when we have disagreements (as if to say I'm not). If I'm a jerk; I apologize and he tells me it isn't necessary (not because he's my friend) but because he's a MAN.

I've pretty much decided to ignore him this time and most assuredly in the future, but any ideas with coping? I think avoiding him like the plague when he's like this is a good plan, but I can't win with him. I try to talk about it (but that is a female quality apparently) then I get aggressive and tell him to knock it off and then we're butting heads and I'm the one with an attitude and mood. Grrr....it's driving me crazy! If he were just a casual friend I'd have dropped him like a hot potato a long time ago, but we're brothers (his description). I've asked him point blank what he wants from me and he sidesteps the issue. I've tried every approach I know short of just hauling off and kicking his tempermental ass and see who's being female then.

 

[G-Lexington]

I don't know your whole story here, but from what you're saying, your friend is not treating you as such.

Friends - especially "brothers" - are able to talk to each other about everything, anytime. If my friend gets busy, he says, "Dude" - yes, we say "dude" - "Dude, sorry, I'm swamped - can I get back to you later?" And he does. If I NEED to talk to him, I'll tell him so, and he'll make sure we can chat at his earliest convenience.

Friends do not pull the "I am a MAN" thing on their gay friends. None of mine do, anyway. They know I'm well aware of their gender, and their sexuality. They don't get touchy at certain comments like "How are you?" If they have a problem with something I say to them, they tell me, but politely - "Dude, that sounds kinda weird when you say it like that." And I find a better way to say it.

Your friend doesn't appear to be treating you as a friend. Not right now, anyway. I'd work on some other relationships. You assumedly have enough on your plate without having to deal with his issues, too.

Lex

 

[thephoenix]

I don't know your whole story here, but from what you're saying, your friend is not treating you as such.

Friends - especially "brothers" - are able to talk to each other about everything, anytime. If my friend gets busy, he says, "Dude" - yes, we say "dude" - "Dude, sorry, I'm swamped - can I get back to you later?" And he does. If I NEED to talk to him, I'll tell him so, and he'll make sure we can chat at his earliest convenience.

Friends do not pull the "I am a MAN" thing on their gay friends. None of mine do, anyway. They know I'm well aware of their gender, and their sexuality. They don't get touchy at certain comments like "How are you?" If they have a problem with something I say to them, they tell me, but politely - "Dude, that sounds kinda weird when you say it like that." And I find a better way to say it.

Your friend doesn't appear to be treating you as a friend. Not right now, anyway. I'd work on some other relationships. You assumedly have enough on your plate without having to deal with his issues, too.

Lex

I agree with your points. The more he claims to be a man the more I doubt it. He's posturing too much. Most likely his whole attitude has nothing to do with me.

I have NEVER met anyone who has been offended by and emasculated by "How are you?" and this has only recently (in the last year or so) been a trait of his. It's weird.....

 

[G-Lexington]

Friend is as friend does. He isn't acting like a friend...

You might try talking to him again, or perhaps e-mail him if you think he's going to get huffy and obscure the issues. That way, you can be sure of getting all your points across.

Lex

 

[backpacker]

I'm with Lex on this one. We don't know the whole story, but it sure doesn't seem that he is treating you like a friend.

I tend to think he is struggling with his own issues and lashes out at you. He might think that lashing out at you is safe as you have been friends so long, but obviously it's taking a toll on your friendship. The question I have for you, why do you allow him to treat you like this? Next time he starts his man stuff, tell him if he acted like a man he wouldn't have to remind you was one. Tell him you are tired of his shit and he can call you when he decides to act like a human being. You really don't need this grief in your life.

If he tells mutual friends that you are avoiding him, just tell them damn right I'm avoiding him. He's been treating me like shit and I'm tired of it.

Until you stand up for yourself, he is going to keep treating you like shit.

 

[Horschallen]

I tend to think he is struggling with his own issues and lashes out at you. He might think that lashing out at you is safe as you have been friends so long, but obviously it's taking a toll on your friendship.

That was the first thing that came to mind when I read your first post. The second thought was is he bipolar? I have had some friends in the past who were bipolar and they would be nice to me on some days, but not on other days.

You may want to consider keeping some distance from your friend for a while and keep your calls as minimal as possible to maybe like once a week or two.

Good luck.

 

[tonyboy]

What I write may be tough for you.... but I'd say this guy is not a true friend... It sounds to me as if he is using your friendship, but not reciprocating.
How about just giving him a very wide berth for several months? That's a tough thing to do with someone you've been comfortable with for a long period of time, but it sounds as if you've been progressively become more uncomfortable over the past while.
I've no doubt there are lot's of fine guys out there just waiting to become friends with someone like you. You''re buddy will come around when he finally accepts himself, when he begins to understand himself.
That 'bi' thing is true in a few cases man, but mostly it is used by guys that are gay that aren't ready to say so.
I hope you figure this out, and I hope you don't spend lot's of time getting hurt by your friend.

 

[spreadeagle]

Your friend is the moody one and is projecting his own anxiety about his moodiness onto you; it probably derives from his insecurity about his ability to maintain relationships.

He feels trapped: having exposed his vulnerability to you he feels less of a man, and he believes that any of your behaviour or mannerisms that he considers characteristically feminine will taint him by association and call his own masculinity into question.

I think a wise move for you would be to begin to expand your circle of relationships and activities. Begin looking outward more and engage in activities that require an expenditure of physical energy. You need some sort of support system in place so that you can wean yourself away from this toxic relationship - I don't think it's going to serve you positively in the long run.

 

[rareboy]

What Spreadeagle and others have said....

Sounds like he's struggling with his emotional identity as well as his sexuality. I guess like a lot of other young guys, it might be okay to have gay sex if you identify as bisexual, but too demanding to just be gay.

This guy can rag on you about your moods, but can't be asked how he is doing? Sounds like a neurotic or psychopathic headcase to me. BTW, was the sex about love and caring or about dominance?

Of course you can't win. He can change the rules at any time and keep you always in a state of anxiety and submissiveness. He is exactly the person you'd find in an abusive relationship. Every one of these relationships, whether in business or marriage or friendships relies on one person being the victim and the other being in a position of power over them.

I think it is time that you give him all the space he needs and make it clear to him that he is not the boss of you by making new friends. I suspect he will be unpleasantly jealous, but if you don't indulge him in this, he will just move on from you and find his next victim and leave you more or less alone. If you do indulge him in this, he will gain even more power and control over you.

Run like hell sweetie, because it is only a matter of time before he becomes even more abusive.

 

[Lube]

I tend to think he is struggling with his own issues and lashes out at you. He might think that lashing out at you is safe as you have been friends so long, but obviously it's taking a toll on your friendship. ... Next time he starts his man stuff, tell him if he acted like a man he wouldn't have to remind you was one.

[Struggling with his own issues] was the first thing that came to mind when I read your first post.

He feels trapped: having exposed his vulnerability to you he feels less of a man, and he believes that any of your behaviour or mannerisms that he considers characteristically feminine will taint him by association and call his own masculinity into question.

Sounds like he's struggling with his emotional identity as well as his sexuality. I guess like a lot of other young guys, it might be okay to have gay sex if you identify as bisexual, but too demanding to just be gay.

These guys nailed it.

The guy is very insecure about his manliness about being "bi" (he's probably actually gay) and he's projecting that onto you.

I think he might actually still be a good friend some day, but right now he's struggling with his sexual identity and masculinity, and he's taking it out on you.

You need to tell him you're not going to accept the way he treats you, and if he continues to treat you that way that you can't accept him as a friend. Then give him some space. Hopefully in a few months he'll accept himself for what he is. If not, you may have lost a friend forever, sorry to say.

 

[thephoenix]

He was a good friend once....possibly he will be again. Not sure if I'll be around to see it. I'm incredibly sick of his immature mood swings and blame shifts. It's better to be alone than to be constantly on guard and miserable

 

[backpacker]

Good idea to distance yourself from him, but that doesn't mean you have to be alone. Think about your interests and find some groups to join. There's groups for about every interest and you will meet people that you already have something in common with. Good luck!

 

[thephoenix]

Re: Deeply, Deeply Confused!! -Updated Dec 3

Well, update on my situation.

This last time on this thread that he was emotional and treated me bad was because he found out his cheating wife had given him herpes and didn't want to talk. He told me needed to call everyone he slept with and let them know they were at risk. I never got a call. And he gave me a nice reminder of him. When I told him, he told me I was crazy and must be sleeping around to catch it because it wasn't from him and hung up on me. The girl he did manage to transmit to got her dr' visit's paid and he bought her medicine. Grrrr......

Things were weird, I kept my mouth closed and everything went back to relative normal. Then he started treating me like shit again. This time his ex-wife from whom he caught the herpes is pregnant. So, he was shocked and him talking to me like dirt wasn't anything I did. Afterwhile we entered normalcy again. I get a phone call at 12:00 a.m. It's him, calling and crying about the changes in his life. How a baby was his dream he had prayed for it and he got it. He then began to tell me how he wanted me in his baby's life. He wanted his kids to know me. The wonderful person I am. He said it was more important than anything that I be okay with the baby. He needed me to be okay with it. So I told him I was. He went on about how much he loved me and how I was his dearest friend and that our new business was going to get both our lives started.

Well, we hit normal again for some time. Then all of a sudden he can't talk as much or come to work. He starts getting pissy with me and just treating me like garbage all the time and so I finally just let go. And I left. I'm sad and I miss who he was. But I am so much happier on the whole. We still talk rarely. He's only called when he wanted something and I always feel worse when I'm anticipating talking to him or actually talking to him. And my day is usually ruined after. But, not talking to him has been easy for those reasons. The hardest part so far has been trying to go to sleep at night I end up thinking about him and missing him or I dream about him. Always about who he was. I'm still sad, but I do feel a bit stronger; more opptimistic. I'm proud to have pretty much stood up for myself.

 

[rareboy]

I guess you missed my first post on your thread. So just in case I wasn't clear enough and you might still want to be in touch with him:

HE'S NUTTIER THAN MR. PLANTER. RUN LIKE HELL!!!​

 

[G-Lexington]

There's nothing wrong with thinking about or dreaming about what he was, or what he could've been, as long as you're extremely aware at all times that this is NOT who he IS. I think you've made the right move. Now make it stick. Expect another phone call soon from him expecting things to be precisely as they were...and do your best to NOT make them precisely as they were.

Lex

 

[thephoenix]

Oh I can assure you..I'm done. I can't take the ups and downs that he so frequently caused and life had gotten so miserable.

More than anything I got tired....I couldn't hang on and I can't grab back on. No matter how much I might want to.

True, there's nothing wrong with thinking about who he was. There's just no point in wasting energy over what might have been. In the end it's just painful, but it was less painful to let go than to keep hanging on hoping for some change. I can honestly say I made an effort to keep my friendship going and it didn't work. So, move.org

 

[thephoenix]

I'm happy to reiterate that he is now on his own. I'm done and out of the picture.

However, you're right....totally right...it's him I need to worry about some MORE. You know, he only belittles me and talks down to me in front of people, tries to make me feel crazy, calls me names, and all around kicks me especially when I'm down. Oh, Oh best of all he gave me an STD and whined to me about having an STD and never said anything to show any concern that I may have caught it. Just he had to get off the phone to call all the people he slept with. Next time I speak with him he says: "I got them all and one girl already has an outbreak." Now, I had already had an outbreak and went to the doctor. Paid out of my uninsured pocket for the blood test, exam, and medication. That little bimbo got all that taken care of with lots of apologizes. I get told "I don't know who the hell you're sleeping around with to get that, but you didn't get it from me." I state the case that he was the only man I had slept with. And got the sullen "You didn't get it from me."

SO, FRZBGLFR, please do a search of the other posts I've made here about my friend. Then you come back and let me know if he needs any more of my consideration? Or should I go and hold his hand and keep getting smacked over and over and over again???? Your post kinda burns me the wrong way because to me it implies that I am self centeredly overlooking his feelings and being a bad friend for getting out after months of emotional abuse; to maintain my sanity. What a selfish jerk I am!

I'm far from it and that jackass knows that if he called needing me tomorrow I'd come running even though I shouldn't. And that's all he gets anymore. No more daily "lashings", no more walking all over me.

So, I'm sorry that he is going up and down with his emotions (always have been), but as of right now if it's not life threatening, I DO NOT care.

 

[Diodorus]

This guy's name isn't Andrew is it?

 

[backpacker]

FRZBGLFR and paraman25, I'm very glad that things have worked out for you so well. Please understand that your experience is a great love story, but a rarity. The vast majority just end up in more and more emotional pain. I have noticed that both of you want to push your experience on others and I fear you are just doing more harm. You can convey your happy ending without criticizing the original poster and pushing them to do what you did. I have a similar story with a happy ending. In my case, the happy ending was getting the guy out of my life.

thephoenix, as hard as it is, you have done what is necessary for your own well being. While friends should be there for each other, the friendship shouldn't be the cause of ongoing pain. As I said in my second post on this thread, get involved in some groups and make some new friends. Good luck!

 

[backpacker]

paraman25, we each bring different perspectives to our posts. The original poster was clearly upset with what FRZBGLFR wrote and I can see why. Even you had to effectively end the friendship for two years, then you were able to establish a new friendship. There are some friendships that can be saved, while others need to end. When a poster who has worked very hard to save a friendship reaches the point that they have decided a friendship is not worth the pain, they don't need people second guessing their decision. I have noticed FRZBGLFR doing the same thing in the LostVegas thread. If there is ever a case where someone needs to cut the other out of their life, it's Brian with Andy.