Democrats to advance health care under reconciliation

[JB3]

I would be against the whole "jamming it through" part if a single Republican had come up with a single idea other than "death panels" or "let's just start over?"

As it is, I say let's jam it through and anyone who doesn't like it can kiss Nancy's boney ass.

Their ideas focused on what the two sides could agree upon; some form of tort reform, requiring insurance companies to offer insurance to all, etc. They wanted the democrats to start there, and work out THOSE issues before attempting to tackle the big stuff. (which is not an entirely unreasonable proposition when you're dealing with something that accounts for $2 trillion worth of our economy) The democrats refused, which is why we find ourselves where we are.

Your attitude is quite despicable, and symptomatic of what Americans are sick and tired of in Washington. They want their leaders to do this right, not to force through a bill that is not only incredibly flawed, but is a bill that most of them do not want. The fact that you would have them ram through this bill, rules, regulations, and LAW be damned, is quite telling about you as a person.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Their ideas focused on what the two sides could agree upon; some form of tort reform, requiring insurance companies to offer insurance to all, etc. They wanted the democrats to start there, and work out THOSE issues before attempting to tackle the big stuff. (which is not an entirely unreasonable proposition when you're dealing with something that accounts for $2 trillion worth of our economy) The democrats refused, which is why we find ourselves where we are.

Your attitude is quite despicable, and symptomatic of what Americans are sick and tired of in Washington. They want their leaders to do this right, not to force through a bill that is not only incredibly flawed, but is a bill that most of them do not want. The fact that you would have them ram through this bill, rules, regulations, and LAW be damned, is quite telling about you as a person.

It's cute you memorized all that.

But sorry... the people do want it and no amount of saying they don't is going to change that.

 

[JB3]

It's cute you memorized all that.

But sorry... the people do want it and no amount of saying they don't is going to change that.

They want reform. They do not want the specific bills that the president and the democrats are pushing. Multiple pollsters have conducted polls since the president released his version of the legislation, and the public is clearly against it.

It would be nice if you pulled your head out of your ass and actually paid attention to what is going on in this country right now; if you honestly think the public wants this legislation, then you have no idea what's actually going on.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

please cite

you are in ce&p. when making wild claims you are asked to cite info

thanks

Meh.

One can find a poll to tell you anything.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/new-poll-77-percent-suppo_n_264375.html

That said... although people didn't necessarily like the second bill, they sure did like the first. People want a public option, they want affordable care. They want reform and the Republicans don't seem to.

 

[JB3]

Meh.

One can find a poll to tell you anything.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/new-poll-77-percent-suppo_n_264375.html

That said... although people didn't necessarily like the second bill, they sure did like the first. People want a public option, they want affordable care. They want reform and the Republicans don't seem to.

The best you can do in response is to find a poll from August 20th? For real?

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

The best you can do in response is to find a poll from August 20th? For real?

Quite honestly... my point with that is that no amount of posting links to polls is going to change much. I can post my links and you can post yours back. I can tell you mine is more valid and you can say mine is flawed.

We all know that people want the reform and although they might not want this bill or that bill, they want A bill because right now they're all too busy dying.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

i think what has jasun confused is

when people are asked do you want health care reform many (probably most) say yes

but the reform is their own personal reform which is broad & wide; politically right, left & middle

however when specifics are bundled together in one bill most disapprove

You want to cite a link for that or is it just me who has to Google stuff?

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

most recent data i could find

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

Well see and again... There is no one "plan."

All this "Obama's Plan" crap.. there's two bills and countless ideas being thrown around. Saying that people are against "Obama and the Democrats plan" is bullshit.

 

[JB3]

Well see and again... There is no one "plan."

All this "Obama's Plan" crap.. there's two bills and countless ideas being thrown around. Saying that people are against "Obama and the Democrats plan" is bullshit.

Have you been living under a rock? Obama put forth a bill prior to the summit that was nearly identical to the senate bill. It is 'the' bill.

 

[JB3]

We all know that people want the reform and although they might not want this bill or that bill, they want A bill because right now they're all too busy dying.

No, they don't as a matter of fact. People do not want them to pass a bill just for the sake of passing a bill. (they're saying the opposite, in fact)

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Have you been living under a rock? Obama put forth a bill prior to the summit that was nearly identical to the senate bill. It is 'the' bill.

OK, but (and I'll admit it's been increasingly more tedious to follow at this point and maybe I'm missing the point at this point) isn't HIS bill different from THIS bill and THAT bill and they're going to have to pass it bit by bit with reconciliation maybe but not quite sure and probably sorta in a funny kinda way?

I mean it seems that everyone out there is still running around with some draft of some bill but at this point there's still nobody sure what's going to be in any bill?

My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that they still don't even know if the public option is going to be included. That seems to say that there is no "the" bill to be THE BILL.

ERg... I need more coffee, my brain hurts just reading that.

 

[NickCole]

Jasun, when Obama was elected a majority of Americans supported health care reform but Obama and Democrats have made such a mess of it now a majority of Americans don't support it.

Obama did propose a plan before that moronic summit, which was just a copy of the Senate plan with a few tweaks, and now he apparently has a new plan that's "much smaller" (according to Pelosi). (Why is it smaller? If health care reform is going to be passed without any Republican votes, why not make it genuine and substantive? Maybe Republicans weren't the problem.)

Health care reform, which is seriously needed, under Obama's leadership has been a catastrophic failure. If anything is passed it's going to be crap just so Obama and Dems can try to bamboozle voters into believing something has been accomplished.

 

[JB3]

OK, but (and I'll admit it's been increasingly more tedious to follow at this point and maybe I'm missing the point at this point) isn't HIS bill different from THIS bill and THAT bill and they're going to have to pass it bit by bit with reconciliation maybe but not quite sure and probably sorta in a funny kinda way?

I mean it seems that everyone out there is still running around with some draft of some bill but at this point there's still nobody sure what's going to be in any bill?

My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that they still don't even know if the public option is going to be included. That seems to say that there is no "the" bill to be THE BILL.

ERg... I need more coffee, my brain hurts just reading that.

Ehh. You're about a month (or more) behind.

The public option is dead and buried. The definitive bill as proposed by Obama does not include it, and no bill that they would consider through ANY means (including reconciliation) will include it because it would not pass the senate, and probably the house at this point.

 

[Just_Believe18]

I have seriously watched for any attempt by the Republican party to participate in this process since its inception. They have done nothing but demonize healthcare reform and lack the compassion or the pressing urgency to see this bill through. They are playing politics with peoples lives. The Democrat bill isn't perfect, but it is a genuine attempt to fix a status quo that has clearly failed the American people.

The Republicans are clearly content to keep healthcare the way it is. That is why I support reconciliation on this bill. Screw it. There is no republic when you have a party that hijacks the federal government into complacency.

 

[NickCole]

The Democrat bill isn't perfect, but it is a genuine attempt to fix a status quo that has clearly failed the American people.

Really? Would you post a link to "The Democrat bill" please?

Thanks.

 

[JB3]

I have seriously watched for any attempt by the Republican party to participate in this process since its inception. They have done nothing but demonize healthcare reform and lack the compassion or the pressing urgency to see this bill through. They are playing politics with peoples lives. The Democrat bill isn't perfect, but it is a genuine attempt to fix a status quo that has clearly failed the American people.

The Republicans are clearly content to keep healthcare the way it is. That is why I support reconciliation on this bill. Screw it. There is no republic when you have a party that hijacks the federal government into complacency.

Your entire post is bullshit talking points from the democrats. Did you watch the summit? Were you paying any attention at all to what the republicans said and the common ground that both they and the democrats share?

You can continue to try and propagate the lie that republicans are content with healthcare as it is, but that simply isn't the case. The biggest area of disagreement, and the one area where neither side will compromise, is the amount of intervention that the federal government should undertake. Republicans believe it should be minimal, and much should be left to the states. Democrats want to establish massive new programs, and leave it to the bureaucracy to govern the system.

As I said, neither side is willing to reach a common ground on that single issue, and that is why we are where we are in this debate. You should educate yourself before spouting off bullshit tripe like you did above.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

herein lies a problem

different camps argue over 'the' HCR bill and there isnt just one

Isn't that what I said a few posts back and you reacted with a ?

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

but wait.. you just agreed with me that there is no "the plan" to be against, right?

That was my point. You can't be against "the Obama and Democrat plan" when there isn't one plan.

I'm not for "the plan." Because there isn't "a" plan to be for.

 

[Jack Springer]

The Democrats did use their super majority last year.

Conference committee just could not reconcile the differences between the House bill and Senate bill in time before the Massachusetts election.

JockBoy - I think you're spinning this a little. The Administration and Congress have been tied up with health care during the past year. Not much of anything else getting done. Both Houses did pass a bill -- but could not come to a compromise. Even if a new Senator had not been elected the two bills would still not be one.

The Democrats had a great opportunity and blew it. There was no leadership by the President - he let Polosi and Reid decide the path.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

so what was it you wanted to jam through?

What I would like to see is Democrats taking the Senate Bill and jamming that one through.

clearly polling data confirms the public is against (Obama and the Democrats plan) do you not know what perception means?

Tell me, your highness, what does it mean?