Depression IS a disease

[Ryuusei Boy]

OK, guys, I've been for a couple of months here in JUB and I made a friend, whose nickname I'm not mentioning (maybe he will post in this thread later on, I hope so).

I think we get along together, he's by far my favorite JUB member and I care about him. Several days ago he told me he was depressed, that he wanted some change so he could feel better about himself. That same day I told him getting medical attention for his depression was a must.

Before I continue, some of you are bound to believe this "friend" is actually me - I don't care as long as you keep reading and give your opinion.

Some days later he told me he was going to stop "being geeky", and forget everything about Japan, etc. - so he wouldn't turn off potential clubbing friends and potential hook ups. I told him I personally don't think that's how you overcome DEPRESSION, I told him to do whatever he wants to do to be happy, but he NEEDS to get his depression treated.

Long story short - today he practically said I want him to be in the closet and that I want him to be geeky only because when we are talking, I talk about video games and Japan. I told him I don't care WHAT HE decides to do as long as he is happy, but he needs his FREAKING DEPRESSION treated. I have the whole MSN chat saved, in case he allows me to post it later.

He attacked me on several occasions, saying my Mario Bros. geeky talking is shameful and he wants to get over his "shameful" geeky past. Again, I've told him hundred of times I WANT HIM TO BE WHOEVER he wants to be as long as he's happy, but he's blaming his hobbies for not getting laid, practically.

What's the main problem? He refuses to acknowledge depression is a neuro chemical disease that requires treatment he says his depression will go away with alcohol, sex and being more effeminate. Oh, by the way, he thinks I hate him because he's effeminate, when I didn't EVEN FREAKING KNOW he is effeminate, and obviously and ultimately don't give a damn.

He practically thinks my opinion (that he should get his depression treated) is not valid because I'm in the closet:

Could anyone who is an out gay man PLEASE tell this guy depression doesn't go away by having sex and drugs? That's all I ask in this thread. I've told him several times he can stop being geeky for the rest of his days, but it's REALLY important that he gets treated.

I don't remember if I'm missing anything, I just ask you guys to help me get this guy to understand his problem is not what he's thinking.

 

[giftart]

Depression don't go away when you have sex and drugs.

I was once in a Depression and the only thing I thought about was everything around me is against me and very very very dark and life was meaningless. Never did I think about sex or anything. hah

If he really is in a depression, then he should go see a doctor for it.

 

[G-Lexington]

I'm an out gay man.
Depression doesn't go away by having sex and drugs.
...but I don't think this guy is (necessarily) clinically depressed.

He sounds like my first boyfriend. He was uber-geeky. Not in a video game and Japan/otaku sort of way, but in a button-down-shirt-on-the-hottest-day-of-the-year, learning-computer-programming-languages-for-fun sort of way. Maybe "nerd" is a more correct term.

Anyway, soon after he started questioning his sexuality, he ended up completely deconstructing his persona. And I mean EVERYTHING. He got his hair cut in some weird pattern. He tossed his button-down shirts in favor of HyperColor ones (which had just come on the market then). He began rollerblading and going to liberal rallies. He bought a synthesizer and tried to join a band. He went from uber-uptight guy to promiscuous gay college student in a matter of a month or two. Every week, he had a new career goal and plan in place. He was going to me an actor, a sculptor, a music-video director, an "out" gay politician, a dancer. And he continually said how much he hated his nerd-y past, and how much he thanked GOD that that was in the past.

Now? He creates computer networks for a living.

I really don't think he wasted those months/years, though. He just had a bit of a delayed adolescence. He did that "I wanna be a fireman!" thing several years after the rest of us did. He tried on personas, chucked them out, and eventually found out which one was really "him". (As far as I can tell.) We sort of just tolerated his "discovery process", and kept the mantra "well, if that's what makes you happy" handy.

It sounds like your friend has grown weary of his persona, even if he still (actually) enjoys the stuff involved. I think it's silly to burn bridges and say "I hate all that" - much better to simply say "I'd like to try new things". But I guess people need to do what they feel they need to do. So let him turn his back on his anime DVDs and XBox for the time being. Let him max out his credit cards at A&F, and see how many guys he can get into his bedroom in the next month. Maybe that persona will fit. Or maybe it won't. I have a feeling he'll eventually return to what he really likes.

Lex

 

[Ryuusei Boy]

The main reason why it stings so much is because I went through something similar a couple of years ago. I didn't want to be associated with my video game love, I was ashamed of KNOWING some Japanese, I was ashamed of not drinking alcohol. I was clinically depressed, and I got treatment. Now? Well, I know some of you don't have a good concept of me because of my closet-ness, but now I adore my geeky self to death. I wear Nintendo t-shirts to my work, I read about science, I'm into languages and computers, etc.

Sadly, he won't even read your answers, even if he told me to make this thread after I suggested it. He thinks I want him to be in the closet and unhappy, he thinks "he knows" his depression will go away by getting laid. And he said he doesn't care what my "masculine, homophobic friends" (giftart and Lex so far) think. And this same person has told me "Lex is great", but whatever.

Lex, I've told him I want him to do his "transformation", but I want him to see a therapist first. I mean, what harm could it do? He literally said he knows better than a specialist, I personally don't believe that.

 

[giftart]

I'm by no means masculine or homophobic. haha

He has to really figure it out himself if he wants to dump his geeky side away, then let him be. As long as he doesn't wanna take his life or do drugs or unsafe sex then it should be fine for now.

Like you said, go see a doctor wont hurt anybody. Its better to be safe.

 

[slnattak]

Sorry but you're wrong. It's only a *theory* that depression is caused by imbalanced brain chemicals.

It's really that the drugs are good profit. They make a lot of other people richer. But it's all bullshit. Life is hard and complicated and challenging, and you're meant to be sad sometimes.

There's no scientific evidence that those drugs help people, in fact the results are either a placebo effect or they make people worse. Please look up the name 'Psychetruth' on youtube and educate yourself.

Also, you don't have the moral high ground here and you have no business really telling your friend what to do, because you actually are misinformed and wrong. So if he listens to you, he will actually make himself worse. And really, I'm not against you for being closeted, but he has a good point about that.

Also happy pills deal with the symptoms not the cause. Or the root issue. It's not like you're going to get a good life or make the right decisions just because you're supposedly 'not depressed' anymore. And they do nothing for me but fuck up my sex drive. People who convince themselves that they are happier for taking pills are just experiencing the Placebo effect.

 

[rareboy]

Sorry but you're wrong. It's only a *theory* that depression is caused by imbalanced brain chemicals.

Wrong.

It is not just a theory.

psychetruth on Youtube doesn't stack up against the millions of pages of science that demonstrates the neuro-chemical and genetic causes of depression. I count among my acquaintance a number of specialists in mental health who are not pill poppers but understand that neuro-chemistry is an integral aspect of clinical depression and that medication can be a key to liberating people from the hell they are living in.

Serotonin re-uptake inhibitors can help many people find an even keel again.

This should be combined with a pure diet and exercise.

As in, no more msg, hfcs, nicotine, processed foods generally, recreational drugs, caffeine etc.

Also, walk away from the computer. Go outside. Exercise. Get proper sleep. Practise yoga or other ways of coping with stress and solving problems.

And talk to your doc. And a therapist if there are life issues that are contributing to the burden.

Having said this, I have to agree that the OP should just butt out. I don't necessarily see a case of clinical depression here. I also see a young guy who's realizing that he may need to evolve if he doesn't want to get stuck in a deep rut for the next 30 years and is trying to figure out how to do this because he has retarded development skills.

Your friend should go out and get laid. And re-invent himself.

Maybe he'll snap out of his funk. Maybe he'll find out it doesn't make him happy.

But stop making this your personal mission. You'll only alienate him further.

When he posts in this forum and asks for help, then maybe we'll be able to offer some life experience guidance.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>Also happy pills deal with the symptoms not the cause. Or the root issue. It's not like you're going to get a good life or make the right decisions just because you're supposedly 'not depressed' anymore. And they do nothing for me but fuck up my sex drive. People who convince themselves that they are happier for taking pills are just experiencing the Placebo effect.

Then call me a happy recipient of the placebo effect.

Just over two years ago, I fell into a pretty deep depression. I was surrounded by a feeling of despair, and couldn't shake these negative thoughts that surrounded me. And, like you, I thought what I needed to do was to take care of the root issue of my depression.

Here's the kicker, though. Everything was fine, psychologically. My partner and I were getting along great, I got along fine with my parents and friends, I was happy in my job, everything. I wasn't dissatisfied with any aspect of my life, other than the fact that I kept thinking negative things. A fire truck would drive by (not even with its siren on), and for the next four hours, all I could think about was my house on fire, with my cats screaming as they slowly burned to death. You know, pleasant stuff like that.

I went to see my doctor, and we discussed various options. I told her I wasn't against the idea of therapy, necessarily, but I wasn't quite sure where any problem might be. We came to the decision that this was probably a chemical imbalance rather than a sign of psychological problems, so she prescribed a mild anti-depressant.

Like all anti-depressants, it took a week or so to have any effect. And I kept sinking up until then. By the end of that week, I was living in a constant state of despair. I felt isolated, cold, and disconnected...and I had begun to feel that THIS was the way I was supposed to feel, and perhaps I had been deluding myself the last several decades into thinking "life can be good".

Then the medication finally kicked in.

It picked a weird time and place to happen. I was sitting with my partner at Home Depot, waiting to talk to somebody about carpeting. And suddenly, the cloud lifted. I didn't feel zombified or "artificially happy". I felt like me again.

For all of fifteen seconds.

Didn't matter. Those fifteen seconds were enough. Because that was enough to make me remember what it was like on the other side, and for me to know whole-heartedly what I was simply believing on faith the last few weeks - that life WAS OK. I still was surrounded by those clouds of despair, but I could smile through them now, because I knew I was headed out of them.

It took another week before the "sunny" times outweighed the "cloudy" ones.
It took another two or three weeks before the "cloudy" times left completely.
It took another couple months to shake the after-effects of being in the depression.
Then I weaned myself off the pills, which took another week or two.

For me, the anti-depressants did for the depression what aspirin does for the headache. Alleviate the symptoms so I could get back to being me. As I said, I never felt fake or zombiesque. In fact, my sex drive went UP on the anti-depressants, because it's hard to get horny when you're obsessively thinking about how horrible life is.

For all I know, my doctor prescribed sugar pills. But if so, they worked damned well. No, the immediate response to "I'm depressed" shouldn't be to medicate the pain away. But that doesn't mean they don't work for many people.

Back to the task at hand.

>>>The main reason why it stings so much is because I went through something similar a couple of years ago.

This is a dangerous trap which I always have to remind myself to steer clear of (to various degrees of success). There's a as-for-me-so-for-all mentality that people have, which is especially true on internet messageboards. Pick a physical ailment and tell a board about it. "I get these headaches." Watch how many people jump on it - not with suggestions, but with personal-anecdote-as-fact. "You need to start rubbing epsom salts on your feet. I did it, and my headaches were gone." There's nothing wrong with pointing out what worked for you, and suggesting they try it, too. But you shouldn't insist that you've found the way to cure everybody's headaches. You simply found what worked for you that one time.

And perhaps he IS going through precisely what you did. If so, so what? You seem to have come through the process OK. In fact, you're probably more confident in who you are and what you like than you were before you began. I'm betting you were a "nervous geek" of the "yeah, I kinda like this stuff - stupid, huh?" type at the outset. But now you're confident about it. Maybe he needs to go the same route in order to realize the same sorts of things. Some people actually DO need to travel the world to come to the conclusion that "there's no place like home".

Lex

 

[Ryuusei Boy]

@everyone:
Guys, I never tried to stop him from doing whatever he wants to do, our argument was because he refuses to get his depression (and he's the one saying he's depressed, and that it's not the first time) treated. Because just like me and some of you have mentioned, it does make a difference. He said he'll treat his depression with sex and drugs, I think that's all kinds of wrong.

@slnattak:
Uh, being sad is not being depressed.

@rareboy:
I went through a couple of really uncomfortable months because of clinical depression. When this person tells me he is depressed, I just wanted to help him overcome it faster. Once it's over, you're a much stronger and confident people, that's what I want to happen to him if he is depressed.

I don't see it as my 'personal mission' anymore, he's been attacking me a lot and I understand that if he's actually going through what I did, he's going to have to understand by himself.

@Lex:
Yeah, pretty much. And I agree about the 'cloudy' thing, that's exactly how it feels.

----

It does piss me off that he's supposedly not going to read this, because then I shouldn't have wasted my time. And the fact that he doesn't want to read it is also quite revealing in my opinion - but that's it, this is not my problem and I'll stop caring now. I tried to be helpful and I got attacked and insulted as a response.

 

[G-Lexington]

You don't have to stop caring. But you should stop trying to help for the time being. You've said your piece, you've given him advice, he knows you're there for him. So go let him do his thing now. And you can get back to yours.

Lex

 

[maxpowr9]

You offered your advice to your friend. If he chooses to not listen to it, that is his choice. As his "friend", you have to respect to his decision to listen/ignore your advice. It is definately a bitter pill to swallow if it is the latter.

Personally, I have done the same exact things to my own friends and I even stopped talking to them for a year or so because I was so infuriated with their current "life choices". Some will eventually come around and realize the mistakes they made and you can mend the damage that may have happened and be friends again. Some unfortunately don't, but it may actually be better to not have those people in your life.

 

[Ryuusei Boy]

We agreed to disagree, and we both apologized for anything hurtful we could have said. We're not going to agree about this, but at least we're fine with that, lol.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>Your friend can change all the external "things" he can get his hands on, but if he doesn't change what's going on inside, it won't mean squat in the long run.

Perhaps so, but that doesn't mean you can convince him of this. It may be that people actually have to go down that route to come to that conclusion.

Lex