"Dharun Ravi"

[syoBsUtsuJ]

Truth be told, I watched the majority of his trial as I could (as played on TruTV), and I felt sorry for the jurors being deluged with unnecessary information. I'd really thought myself to be truly objective, but in hindsight, yeah, I did feel him to be guilty. Now after his "20/20" interview, I am beyond pause ...

I think he was just stupid, and he certainly wasn't biased. But who knows, he was found guilty of evidence and witness tampering, but wouldn't we ... anyone of us done the same thing? And even those weren't really derogatory of gay-prejudice!

I've myself have said that I don't want "Homo-utero" on my bed!

 

[BrimstoneAndTreacle]

Strangely enough, I was actually slightly sympathetic to Ravi and felt that he was being used as a scapegoat. I was indifferent to his sentence, and couldn't muster up any of the rage that I've seen hurled his way by others.

That is until I saw that interview just now. For the whole interview, not once did the guy show any sort of remorse. The whole interview involved him basically rationalizing and deflecting responsibility for his own actions. This was compounded by the editing and journalistic slant from Chris Cuomo and 20/20, who were basically colluding to paint Tyler as some baggage case whose suicide was the inevitable result of general mental instability and introversion. It was all so disingenuous and so warped and just left a horrible taste in my mouth.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

I think we can agree he didn't do himself any favors with that interview. That said, please remember he's a real person, not an actor, and real people aren't always that good at acting out the emotions the audience would like to see. Remember Meryl Streep in that dingo movie?

What bothered me more than his affect was his lame attempts to pretend that his reasons for spying on Tyler were anything other than just plain old fashioned snooping. Clearly he thought that the idea that his roommate was having a gay encounter in his own room was too juicy to ignore. Whether he would have turned the camera on if Tyler's visitor was a woman is hypothetical, but doesn't that also seem like a likely possibility?

In any event, I think he's had very bad legal advice, and is now suffering for it. Really, really suffering. Considering that he'll probably spend 10 years in jail, then the rest of his life in exile from the US, I think that's way out of proportion to what he actually did. But nobody said our justice system was perfect.

And please keep in mind, he wasn't charged with, and hasn't been sentenced for, causing the death of Tyler Clementi. We may never know any more than we do now about exactly why Tyler killed himself, unless the family makes the contents of his suicide notes public, which I hope they do.

 

[refujiunderground]

i'm watching the 20/20 interview right now and JUB, we famous. with that said, i'm deleteing my pic. this site is about to get a lot of visitors and web traffic from who knows who. i'm not out yet.

dude seems like any ordinary typical person in the young 18-20 somethings today. i don't think he's a sociopath or narcissist. i just think he doesn't see the impact of his actions. you guys obviously aren't don't have much contact with young people that are in the college aged so you probably wouldn't understand. there's plenty of young people that are just like him. they just don't get it. they're apathetic for the most part towards anything that aren't in their interests. he's not a sociopath. just ignorant.

he's not the only guy outthere that is homophobic. he reminds me of my homies and my family members that are ignorant towards gay people. the moment they hear that you're gay, they look at you as less than a human being. if any of you guys browse any other websites full with a straight population of young people, you'll see that shit in full swing. just two days ago, ghostface killah's supposed son, he looks just like him, posted some video which made it's way to worldstarhiphop and the response to that was NASTY. the reason for that was because his son, who knows if he's gay, was singing a beyonce song acting really effeminate. he's only a kid but to make a point simple, it's not cool to be gay. over here is just one of the few places which are safe zones. go to somewhere like bodybuilding.com forums and come out the closet to somewhere like the misc forum.... that's basically asking for problems. most of them don't even think that dharun ravi was wrong for what he did because the guy he did this to was gay. apparently, the problem is much bigger than this guy. he's just one out of many though.

 

[BrimstoneAndTreacle]

I think we can agree he didn't do himself any favors with that interview. That said, please remember he's a real person, not an actor, and real people aren't always that good at acting out the emotions the audience would like to see. Remember Meryl Streep in that dingo movie?

What bothered me more than his affect was his lame attempts to pretend that his reasons for spying on Tyler were anything other than just plain old fashioned snooping. Clearly he thought that the idea that his roommate was having a gay encounter in his own room was too juicy to ignore. Whether he would have turned the camera on if Tyler's visitor was a woman is hypothetical, but doesn't that also seem like a likely possibility?

In any event, I think he's had very bad legal advice, and is now suffering for it. Really, really suffering. Considering that he'll probably spend 10 years in jail, then the rest of his life in exile from the US, I think that's way out of proportion to what he actually did. But nobody said our justice system was perfect.

And please keep in mind, he wasn't charged with, and hasn't been sentenced for, causing the death of Tyler Clementi. We may never know any more than we do now about exactly why Tyler killed himself, unless the family makes the contents of his suicide notes public, which I hope they do.

I actually more or less agree with you, especially regarding the bolded parts. I don't hold Ravi culpable for Tyler's death. However, I do hold him culpable for setting up a webcam to spy on his roommate and (this especially galling) inviting other people to watch it. There was not one moment in that interview where he could admit what a repugnant violation of privacy that was. That is what he was being charged with, and his attitude was surreal and oblivious. He willfully downplayed the effect that such a form of exposure might have had on Tyler, even long after finding out that Tyler was seeking advice in various venues (this forum among them), obviously concerned about this situation and expressing the desire to have his room changed. He wasn't even so much as able to admit that it was just ridiculously stupid what he did was. He had to give a (as you called it, lame) rationalization for spying.

That said, I still don't feel compelled to "make an example" of him. His getting a harsher sentence won't change the minds of homophobes (who, to the contrary, might actually feel sympathetic to his plight), and it won't bring Tyler back.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

Now that I think about it, it may be that he got the right legal advice but didn't take it. That happens a lot. He was offered a plea bargain that would have kept him out of jail, and turned it down, presumably because they couldn't have guaranteed that he wouldn't be deported if he pled guilty.

And yes, I do think it's right that he be held responsible for violating the law. But that doesn't mean I can't feel sorry for the guy.

 

[Salemite]

If he was truly sorry for what he did, he wouldn't keep making excuses and trying to explain it all away. The only thing he's concerned with at this point is fixing his image, as evidenced by his interview on 20/20 tonight. 95% of the special consisted of him making excuses and trying to explain why he's not the asshole everyone thinks he is. "I'm not a homophobe. I like gay people, I promise!" There was a passing comment of "if I had anything to do with Tyler jumping off the bridge I'm really sorry about that," but that's as far as his apology went. The rest of it was him making sure he got to tell his side of the story, the goal of which was to make the whole thing look like a big misunderstanding.

Until he atones for his crimes, he needs to keep his mouth shut.

 

[refujiunderground]

If he was truly sorry for what he did, he wouldn't keep making excuses and trying to explain it all away. The only thing he's concerned with at this point is fixing his image, as evidenced by his interview on 20/20 tonight. 95% of the special consisted of him making excuses and trying to explain why he's not the asshole everyone thinks he is. "I'm not a homophobe. I like gay people, I promise!" There was a passing comment of "if I had anything to do with Tyler jumping off the bridge I'm really sorry about that," but that's as far as his apology went. The rest of it was him making sure he got to tell his side of the story, the goal of which was to make the whole thing look like a big misunderstanding.

Until he atones for his crimes, he needs to keep his mouth shut.

bet he will be when he's locked up in rahway, south state or trenton and he becomes somebody's bitch. he most definitely is going to have to go to pc. those inmates are going to rape him.

 

[Salemite]

I do hold him culpable for setting up a webcam to spy on his roommate and (this especially galling) inviting other people to watch it. There was not one moment in that interview where he could admit what a repugnant violation of privacy that was. That is what he was being charged with, and his attitude was surreal and oblivious. He willfully downplayed the effect that such a form of exposure might have had on Tyler, even long after finding out that Tyler was seeking advice in various venues (this forum among them), obviously concerned about this situation and expressing the desire to have his room changed. He wasn't even so much as able to admit that it was just ridiculously stupid what he did was. He had to give a (as you called it, lame) rationalization for spying

Exactly.

He whitewashed his crime. Rather than taking responsibility for what he did do, he instead spent the whole interview trying to clear his name for what he claims he didn't do (i.e. setting up the cam to humiliate Tyler because he was gay). For him, it's more important to let people know he thinks he's been wronged than to atone for the wrong that he did to someone else, and that's what makes his apology (or lack thereof) seem so hollow. By trying to rationalize his actions, he's making it all about HIM when instead he should just apologize and leave it at that.

 

[PolterGUYst]

He was a bully, and no punishment he could have received would make me feel sorry for him. He also seemed to have serious lack of guilt over the entire thing.

No, he didn't murder Tyler, and no, he didn't intend for Tyler to kill himself, and no, this was certainly not the only event that led up to Tyler's death, but when you go our of your way to humiliate somebody, you have to take major responsibility for how that affects that person and what it may cause that person to do.

 

[star-warrior]

I truly hope the family releases the suicide note. It could be the lynchpin that holds all the reasons why our fellow JUBber decided on such a final act.

 

[syoBsUtsuJ]

Dharun Ravi

As much as I'd love to believe that I am objective and open-minded, I actually did believe him to be guilty. I watched that 20/20 interview, and now I have second thoughts.

I honestly do not believe he ever had malice, but yes, just a kid being curious and evil, as we all were. Now he's the poster child for bullying, COME ON!!! We were all 18 at one time, and now our 18 y.o.'s have more at their disposal!

I am NOT sanctioning his violating Tyler's privacy, but it's NOT a hate crime!

 

[DolphIsYummyyy]

Re: Dharun Ravi

Oh god, another Ravi thread...

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Dharun Ravi

I have agreed with that statement for a long time. He became the victim of bad timing. What he did was wrong but I sincerely doubt he intended to harm Tyler.

I got the in the closet vibe as well. I get he will get to explore his gay sex side in prison now. Ready or not.

 

[RaKroma]

Re: Dharun Ravi

I wonder how this case would transpire and what would public opinion be of Ravi if Clementi didn't commit suicide?

 

[justaguy]

Re: Dharun Ravi

As much as I'd love to believe that I am objective and open-minded, I actually did believe him to be guilty. I watched that 20/20 interview, and now I have second thoughts.

I honestly do not believe he ever had malice, but yes, just a kid being curious and evil, as we all were. Now he's the poster child for bullying, COME ON!!! We were all 18 at one time, and now our 18 y.o.'s have more at their disposal!

I am NOT sanctioning his violating Tyler's privacy, but it's NOT a hate crime!

I agree. I remember when I was in a hostel at University similar things to what he did (pranks etc, some of which might be considered degrading) happening all the time.

 

[FPNY]

Re: Dharun Ravi

Oh god, another Ravi thread...

what is the point of a response like this? if you don't like the topic of a thread, don't open it......what should we do run our ideas for a thread by you to see if they meet your approval?

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Re: Dharun Ravi

Yeah, I'm just going to doubt the very logic of a guy that can state that he didn't set up a viewing party of his gay roommate making out with another guy to be simply curious about it, or he was doing it in the interest of protection, or any of that mess, because if any of that were true, he would have kept it to himself and he wouldn't have been broadcasting it to anyone that would want to see it on his social medium of choice.

Yeah, I was 18 once too - but that would make me an adult under the law accountable for his actions. Same as this guy.

Not only do I have no remorse for the public stage it set him on(thought yeah, personally, I think him being the poster boy for bullying IS strong wording), I have no time for people that want to wave it off under some sorted "boys will be boys" addendum.

 

[fetaby]

I know change can be a scary thing. But there will be a time when it is OK to be gay. When that happens, our suicide rates will drop. As well as the perverse fascination that would be at the root of this case.

 

[Locutus7]

Based on what earlier posters had said about the interview, I don't need to watch him make excuses.

I hope he gets the maximum and then is deported.