"Dharun Ravi"

[syoBsUtsuJ]

Would we be having this conversation if Tyler met up with a woman?

 

[syoBsUtsuJ]

AND Re: Dharun Ravi
Quote:
Originally Posted by homo4jomo View Post
Oh god, another Ravi thread...
what is the point of a response like this? if you don't like the topic of a thread, don't open it......what should we do run our ideas for a thread by you to see if they meet your approval?

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Would we be having this conversation if Tyler met up with a woman?

Would Dharun have done what he did if it was?

 

[G-Lexington]

Sometimes, you decide to gamble and go for broke. And it sounds like that's what he did with his plea bargain - he decided to forgo it, and hoped to come out completely in the clear.

Unfortunately, he wasn't playing online poker. He was playing with his life and his freedom. And in real life, there's no backsies. This isn't a Choose Your Own Adventure book. You can't flip back a few pages and pick up where you made the mistake. Actions have consequences. And I think he's now been given that lesson twice. Is his sentence overly harsh? Perhaps. Then again, I doubt he'll serve it all. Or even most of it.

Lex

 

[fetaby]

Would we be having this conversation if Tyler met up with a woman?

Either way, we are having this conversation. But please do throw out a hypothetical for me to shred, because it seems you can't handle anything larger than bite-size.

 

[JayHawk]

Would we be having this conversation if Tyler met up with a woman?

No because apparently if your are straight and commit suicide over life's stresses then people don't start an entire movement to rail against it.

Teen suicide is the third leading cause of death of those 15 to 24. While the rate among GLBT youth is two to three times higher than their peer group still numerically if you look at it more children die of simply being unable to handle life's difficulties or being given situations to which it seems impossible to overcome. But if they were in a hetro relationship and Tyler killed himself would have been a headline? Not a long lasting one.

I think what needs to be conveyed to all youth is that NOTHING is impossible.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>No because apparently if your are straight and commit suicide over life's stresses then people don't start an entire movement to rail against it.

And perhaps somebody should. And perhaps that somebody should be you.

Lex

 

[FPNY]

I wonder why he is so full of concern that people know the truth now that he has been found guilty. Why didn't he testify to these things in his court proceedings? Could it be that he was afraid adding perjury to his list of convictions? Too late to cover your ass now Ravi.....

 

[justaguy]

Would Dharun have done what he did if it was?

If the person was a 30 something woman he met on the internet, I think he may well have.

 

[justaguy]

Ok, these are a few facts I have gleaned from a few thousand miles away.
a) We know that Tyler had trouble coming out to his parents, which he had recently done.
b) From whats been reported, his parents were not pleased about it when he told them.
c) His family withheld the suicide note (or something written by Tyler) from the trial.

Now, I wouldn't say I was terribly good at maths in school, but I wasn't bad at putting two and two together. I have always felt that this case was much more complex than the incident itself.

 

[PolterGUYst]

Re: Dharun Ravi

What he did was wrong but I sincerely doubt he intended to harm Tyler.

Actually yes, he did intend to harm Tyler. He wanted to humiliate him, which I file under harmful. If he didn't think this would humiliate him, why would he even bother doing it in the first place?

Bullies who actually want their victims to kill themselves are probably in the minority. Funny thing though - it doesn't matter. When you choose to be a bully, you need to take responsibility for how that affects somebody.

We were all 18 at one time, and now our 18 y.o.'s have more at their disposal!

So you're saying "18 year olds will be 18 year olds," just as "boys will be boys." That's not an acceptable excuse. Please don't make me explain the obvious reasons why.

 

[fetaby]

Ok, these are a few facts I have gleaned from a few thousand miles away.
a) We know that Tyler had trouble coming out to his parents, which he had recently done.
b) From whats been reported, his parents were not pleased about it when he told them.
c) His family withheld the suicide note (or something written by Tyler) from the trial.

Now, I wouldn't say I was terribly good at maths in school, but I wasn't bad at putting two and two together. I have always felt that this case was much more complex than the incident itself.

Well then, try to wrap your head around this one. None of the charges against Ravi reflected Tyler's death. There was no murder charge, no man-slaughter charge, no involuntary man-slaughter charge, no wrongful death charge.

So why would a suicide note be necessary? The case was about invading his privacy and then trying to cover up those actions.

 

[JayHawk]

I wonder why he is so full of concern that people know the truth now that he has been found guilty. Why didn't he testify to these things in his court proceedings? Could it be that he was afraid adding perjury to his list of convictions? Too late to cover your ass now Ravi.....

What attorney's convince you to do often defies reason. When the media has made you into a pariah the legal team often does not put you on the stand or if they do they avoid certain things.

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Dharun Ravi

Actually yes, he did intend to harm Tyler. He wanted to humiliate him, which I file under harmful. If he didn't think this would humiliate him, why would he even bother doing it in the first place?

Bullies who actually want their victims to kill themselves are probably in the minority. Funny thing though - it doesn't matter. When you choose to be a bully, you need to take responsibility for how that affects somebody.

Humiliation is harm? Embarrassing maybe but harmful? I think not. Severing your aorta is harmful. Yet it could be my overall perception of people and their opinions for some who are overly sensitive to the effects i guess it could be harmful mentally.

I agree with you that he did not intend to end this persons life with his actions. However I just like involuntary manslaughter is a crime regardless of your intention the act after his actions made the crime Ravi's. I still think it was overblown.

 

[PolterGUYst]

Yes, humiliation can be harmful. Physical harm isn't the only kind of harm out there. Plenty of bullying is done indirectly rather than a simple punch to the face.

 

[JayHawk]

Well I am definitely part of the problem in that respect. I grew up in a era of "Suck it up and move on" That hardly ever works out in the long run. But it does keep ya going most times.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Re: Dharun Ravi

Oh god, another Ravi thread...

 

[JOHN B]

What Ravi did was wrong. But no one can "make" someone else commit suicide. Ravi illegally taped someone without permission, and tried to hide it when caught. THAT is what he did wrong, and was rightfully convicted of. But...if the case/charges were negligent homicide, or some sort of wrongful death charge...then NO...I don't know if i WOULD have convicted him.......

 

[fetaby]

As long as gay people have to hide being gay it will remain shameful and enough to die over.

It is not enough to be out of the closet yourself. You must also speak up for the person who isn't. Because to them, that step out of it could be life or death.

One of the things we see so often around here is that the coming out process must be done at a speed the gay person is comfortable with. It can't be rushed and must be done voluntarily. But when this kid was pushed out of the closet against his will, suddenly some folks are questioning this. He ought to have been able to handle it, huh?

And now that the guy who pushed him is facing the least of the consequences for his actions, why do we have so many here still wanting to maintain the status quo?

 

[backpacker]

20/20 should be found guilty of a bias crime. There was absolutely no attempt at fair or balanced reporting. Dharun said what I expected him to say. What's ridiculous is that 20/20 didn't challenge him on the numerous statements that directly conflicted with testimony from a number of witnesses. This was nothing but a puff piece for Dharun and a hack job on Tyler's family. They made it sound like Tyler's entire family had an issue with him being gay. They didn't bother to say that Tyler's dad was totally supportive when Tyler came out or that Tyler's older brother is gay and was supportive. 20/20 didn't even bother to get basic legal facts right, like the maximum Dharun could receive is 65.5 years, not 10. 10 years is the most he could receive on any single count, but he was convicted of 15 counts.

Here's what I wrote at the time in Tyler's JUB post (prior to knowing about Tyler's suicide): "To me this sounds like an immature guy that thought he was being funny. I would hope the University requires sensitivity counseling and gives the roommate a strong warning about staying out of trouble in the future. I hope it doesn't come to expelling the guy or criminal charges, but if it does the roommate brought it upon himself."

I still say what Dharun did was all about him trying to be the big on campus. I don't think he thought for a second about Tyler's feelings and therefore I don't think he did it out of hatred for Tyler. Under New Jersey law, Dharun's intent doesn't matter if Tyler felt he was being targeted for being gay, which is what the jury found. Dharun is self absorbed and still doesn't get it. Hopefully he grows up soon and realizes the gravity of his actions. I do believe the bias convictions will be overturned on appeal as the law is poorly worded and the law will probably be overturned. The other convictions will probably stand and Dharun will spend some time in prison. Had Dharun not tried to cover things up, I think he would have had a far better chance of beating the bias charges and obviously wouldn't have the convictions related to the cover up.

Dharun's legal team did a bad job. First, I wonder if a plea deal could have be arranged in which Dharun plead guilty to the bias crime based with the stipulation that he didn't intent to intimidate Tyler, but that he agrees Tyler felt intimidated and therefore was guilty. The defense team did a decent job cross examining prosecution witnesses. They did a terrible job with their defense case. Calling seven of his father's friends as character witnesses and not one of Dharun's friends. That made him look guilty as hell. Trying to attack the investigation when there was absolutely nothing to attack made them look desperate and that they didn't have a legitimate defense. They would have been far better off not putting on a defense case at all. They did a poor job of was presenting Dharun to the jury. They were going with the kid defense, but they made him look much older with his attire and hair cut. They also failed to keep him engaged during the trial. I would give them a D for their overall effort. Yes they were working with bad facts, but they made the facts worse. After the prosecution case I felt that Dharun didn't have any intent to intimidate Tyler. After the defense case, I was really questioning Dharun's intent. I had to go back and review everything I knew to make a final determination. Some of that included stuff the jury didn't have, like Tyler's posting on JUB. Tyler saying in his post "I mean aside from being an asshole from time to time, he's a pretty decent roommate".

Dharun brought all this upon himself and has to deal with whatever the outcome.