Diabetes

[eastofeden]

UGH...I am starting to think there is too much information on the internet as "official" information is so conflicting from site to site...

So..my question is..has anyone ever reversed their diabetes?...or know anyone who has?

..and HOW did they know one way or the other?

I think my first numbers were in the 160s three or so years ago..but every year I go to the doctor's for my check up he has told me my numbers are lower..and lower and lower...

Well..now for about three weeks...my numbers go from 93-99 except for twice when it was 103 and 109...

...and I was under the impression that under 100 is non diabetic but on alot of the websites I read this is not so...UGH again.....

I have almost completely changed my diet..and I also lost most of the weight by going to the gym regularly and exercising.

I would like to know if anyone has ever reversed this before ?...and if you have...do you stop taking the pills? I want to stop taking them....should I experiment maybe?

As it is..I never took the Metformin twice a day as directed....only did it once a day...and I probably skip 2-3 days a week at that...always been that way.

 

[jbrown329]

I was recently diagnosed with diabetes. My glucose level was over 400 and my A1C was over 10. I'm also on Metformin, 2x a day. I follow the Dr's directions and don't miss doses. As for reversing it, IDK. And 90+% of the shit you read online is just that, shit.

The web sources I use are WebMD, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic and the NIH.

I've changed my diet and my levels can run from the mid 80's to 120. Some days I can be a little higher. And the more you exercise, you need to keep an eye on your glucose levels. Because they usually drop. I found that out when I walked to the pharmacy and back (2 miles round trip). I was sweating profusely and decided to take my glucose level, it was 67.

I have a friend (of 20yrs) that is diabetic. So I already knew a bunch of what to do and what not to do. I've been with her several times (grocery store, etc) and even I could tell several times when her levels dropped into the toilet (she's a brittle diabetic). I've left her where she's at and ran and bought a bottle of apple juice or a Payday candy bar. She's on insulin (thankfully I'm not) and Januvia.

I know how she eats (correctly) and sometimes she can eat a perfect meal and 20 minutes later her level drops drastically. The lowest I know of is 47. Other times, it will hit 300+. No rhyme, no reason. That's the bitch of being a brittle diabetic.

So, don't take what John, Dick, Harry or Jane says about diabetes. Listen to your doctor.

 

[KaraBulut]

Backing up a bit....

There are two types of diabetes- which is part of the reason that the information on the internet can be so confusing.

Type 1 diabetes (which used to be called "juvenile diabetes") is caused by damage to the cells in the pancreas that regulate blood sugar. Type 1 diabetes almost always requires insulin replacement. The only "cure" is a pancreas transplant to replace the damaged cells.

It sounds like you are a Type 2 diabetic which means that your pancreas still produces insulin but your body still has issues regulating blood sugar levels and other metabolic functions - like fat storage and maintaining body functions that enable your body to have energy needed for metabolism. Type 2 diabetes comes is a wide variety of conditions however there are some people who can control their type 2 diabetes with a combination of diet and exercise. It sounds like you have had some success in lowering your blood sugar by losing weight and exercising, however even though your blood sugars are in the normal range, you are still a type 2 diabetic.

It's important to understand that type 2 diabetes is not a problem with blood sugar- it's an abnormality in overall metabolism and regulation of your metabolism. The blood sugar ups and downs is just one of several symptoms and it's the one that most people are most aware of.

You should discontinue your medication? No, not without discussing it with your doctor.

Who is helping your with the treatment of your diabetes? If you're not working with an endocrinologist and a certified diabetes educator (CDE), then you should make an appointment to discuss your treatment plan with a clinic that has both physicians (endocrinologists) and nurses/dieticians who are CDEs. You may be able to reduce or eliminate some of the medications that you are taking if your A1C levels and other measures have improved but this is something that your treatment team would need to recommend and they would want to set up frequent monitoring to ensure that you are able to continue to keep your diabetes under control with diet and exercise.

 

[jbrown329]

What pisses me off to no end is the ARNP I've been seeing for the last 15yrs. When I saw the actual Dr., I don't know if he realized what he said out loud. He said "she should've caught this earlier". I had complained about 'cotton mouth' and excessive peeing. What got me to go in was because I smelled a strong odor from my urine and it burned when I peed. I thought perhaps it was a bladder/urinary tract infection. Nope.

Right now I'm seeing a regular doctor and an endocrinology nurse (she has 30yrs experience). As I stated earlier, I already knew a lot from watching/interacting with my friend. I knew about carbs/sugars in food. I also knew a whole lot of stuff that's not good to eat. Potatoes, rice, pasta, corn, peas. A small potato is ok. I don't worry about rice because I don't really care for it. Will miss the pasta, corn and peas (frozen, not canned and split peas).

And a glucose level over 400 REALLY fucks with your vision. It was like rubbing Vaseline in my eyes. Major blurring. I could see people, the color of their clothes and hair color. Their faces? A blob.

I'm type 2.

 

[KaraBulut]

I'm type 2.

My earlier comments were directed more toward the OP but they are broad enough to also apply to your post, too.

What pisses me off to no end is the ARNP I've been seeing for the last 15yrs. When I saw the actual Dr., I don't know if he realized what he said out loud. He said "she should've caught this earlier".

A new grad nurse and a first year med student would have been expected to catch diabetes. Blood sugar level is in the most basic of lab tests.

Right now I'm seeing a regular doctor and an endocrinology nurse (she has 30yrs experience). As I stated earlier, I already knew a lot from watching/interacting with my friend. I knew about carbs/sugars in food. I also knew a whole lot of stuff that's not good to eat. Potatoes, rice, pasta, corn, peas. A small potato is ok. I don't worry about rice because I don't really care for it. Will miss the pasta, corn and peas (frozen, not canned and split peas).

The "white food" rule. It's always the processed foods and foods that are white that seem to also have the highest glycemic index.

Don't give up on the peas. Not all peas are created equal and the non-starchy variety are usually okay to eat, especially if you also eat the shells.

It's true that when you are exercising, you do need to watch your blood sugar levels- even if that means testing your blood sugar before and after a workout. Bring a low to moderate carb protein shake with you to the gym to drink after your workouts. Another alternative to take for a workout snack is single-serving peanut butter (the raw, high-fat kind which doesn't have added sugar) or peanut butter on crackers.

You'll find that as you develop more muscle and trim off fat, you won't have as wide of a swing of your blood sugars when you work out. It takes some time but stick to it.

 

[eastofeden]

I was recently diagnosed with diabetes. My glucose level was over 400 and my A1C was over 10. I'm also on Metformin, 2x a day. I follow the Dr's directions and don't miss doses. As for reversing it, IDK. And 90+% of the shit you read online is just that, shit.

The web sources I use are WebMD, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic and the NIH.

I've changed my diet and my levels can run from the mid 80's to 120. Some days I can be a little higher. And the more you exercise, you need to keep an eye on your glucose levels. Because they usually drop. I found that out when I walked to the pharmacy and back (2 miles round trip). I was sweating profusely and decided to take my glucose level, it was 67.

I have a friend (of 20yrs) that is diabetic. So I already knew a bunch of what to do and what not to do. I've been with her several times (grocery store, etc) and even I could tell several times when her levels dropped into the toilet (she's a brittle diabetic). I've left her where she's at and ran and bought a bottle of apple juice or a Payday candy bar. She's on insulin (thankfully I'm not) and Januvia.

I know how she eats (correctly) and sometimes she can eat a perfect meal and 20 minutes later her level drops drastically. The lowest I know of is 47. Other times, it will hit 300+. No rhyme, no reason. That's the bitch of being a brittle diabetic.

So, don't take what John, Dick, Harry or Jane says about diabetes. Listen to your doctor.

Is glucose level the same as taking a reading with the needle? I also am not familiar with the A1C. The reason I don't take my pills everyday is because I have to take Plavix forever as I had a heart attack and three stents five years ago....and there is usually internal bleeding eventually as it thins the blood a lot...and I have one of those holders where I put pills in for three weeks at a time so I skip a few days every week to slow my chances. The other thing..IF my numbers were high I would probably make an exception and take the drug alone but so far...no.

I have Type 2 diabetes and I have already given up on the internet reading...too much conflicting information. I remember my diabetes workshop info I got..I think that lasted four hours and I gave them my complete attention....and I pretty much entered all of that into my brain as "fact" so it is weird seeing all of the conflicting info since then.

I also only take my blood sugar after I have had nothing to eat for six hours which is usually when I wake up. I do go to the gym at night though....usually midnight or 1 AM and I ride for 15 miles on the bike (I schedule it so I can watch one of the cooking shows on the food channel for an hour)... then I do 200 sit ups with the weight machine...and then another 15 minutes with weights or lateral pulls or something else...I mix it up...and if I take my blood pressure an hour later it is low..like 91/67...but I have never taken my blood sugar afterward...or even a couple hours after eating...because the diabetes lady in my workshop said we need the fasting numbers. I wonder if six hours later it would affect my numbers?

 

[eastofeden]

Backing up a bit....

There are two types of diabetes- which is part of the reason that the information on the internet can be so confusing.

Type 1 diabetes (which used to be called "juvenile diabetes") is caused by damage to the cells in the pancreas that regulate blood sugar. Type 1 diabetes almost always requires insulin replacement. The only "cure" is a pancreas transplant to replace the damaged cells.

It sounds like you are a Type 2 diabetic which means that your pancreas still produces insulin but your body still has issues regulating blood sugar levels and other metabolic functions - like fat storage and maintaining body functions that enable your body to have energy needed for metabolism. Type 2 diabetes comes is a wide variety of conditions however there are some people who can control their type 2 diabetes with a combination of diet and exercise. It sounds like you have had some success in lowering your blood sugar by losing weight and exercising, however even though your blood sugars are in the normal range, you are still a type 2 diabetic.

It's important to understand that type 2 diabetes is not a problem with blood sugar- it's an abnormality in overall metabolism and regulation of your metabolism. The blood sugar ups and downs is just one of several symptoms and it's the one that most people are most aware of.

You should discontinue your medication? No, not without discussing it with your doctor.

Who is helping your with the treatment of your diabetes? If you're not working with an endocrinologist and a certified diabetes educator (CDE), then you should make an appointment to discuss your treatment plan with a clinic that has both physicians (endocrinologists) and nurses/dieticians who are CDEs. You may be able to reduce or eliminate some of the medications that you are taking if your A1C levels and other measures have improved but this is something that your treatment team would need to recommend and they would want to set up frequent monitoring to ensure that you are able to continue to keep your diabetes under control with diet and exercise.

Ahh...THANK YOU ...I did not even consider that I would still be a Type 2 diabetic even if my numbers were in the non diabetic range. When they say "reverse"...does that mean you should still consider yourself diabetic even with the low numbers? Is it anything like alcoholism?...meaning....I will still refer to myself as an alcoholic even though I haven't had a drink in over 30 years...and some people question that. I hear commercials a lot on TV now for clinics and they all say "I used to be an alcoholic..but now I'm not"...and I think they are missing the point. Is it the same for diabetes?...as in..you never really recover?...but maybe you keep the numbers low as a rule so it doesn't return?

I have a regular doctor and I get the eye exams...the long ones..where they look for broken blood vessels behind the eye...which is connected to diabetes..and it is mandatory and regular. There is no damage. I also had the diabetes workshop with all of the different specialists which took all morning...and I have access to diabetes specialists any time I need them. My doctor seems pretty well informed about diabetes though...and I trust his analysis. According to him..I am doing great. He said every time I come in my numbers have consistently dropped so whatever I am doing to keep doing it. My numbers haven't been below 100 though the last time I talked to him which is why I am wondering about the reversal...but what you say makes sense.

Is A1C levels the same as taking a blood sugar reading? I am confused about that.

 

[eastofeden]

What pisses me off to no end is the ARNP I've been seeing for the last 15yrs. When I saw the actual Dr., I don't know if he realized what he said out loud. He said "she should've caught this earlier". I had complained about 'cotton mouth' and excessive peeing. What got me to go in was because I smelled a strong odor from my urine and it burned when I peed. I thought perhaps it was a bladder/urinary tract infection. Nope.

Right now I'm seeing a regular doctor and an endocrinology nurse (she has 30yrs experience). As I stated earlier, I already knew a lot from watching/interacting with my friend. I knew about carbs/sugars in food. I also knew a whole lot of stuff that's not good to eat. Potatoes, rice, pasta, corn, peas. A small potato is ok. I don't worry about rice because I don't really care for it. Will miss the pasta, corn and peas (frozen, not canned and split peas).

And a glucose level over 400 REALLY fucks with your vision. It was like rubbing Vaseline in my eyes. Major blurring. I could see people, the color of their clothes and hair color. Their faces? A blob.

I'm type 2.

I understand your irritation with the ARNP. I called my doctor because I had this horrible heartburn and pressure in my chest and I got an appointment right away...and by the time I went in I felt fine...so instead of doing an EKG which he should have done just by me telling him my symptoms....he asked me what was I doing there is it had passed?...as though I was wasting his time? As a doctor..he should have known that I was having a heart attack..which is exactly what had happened. DUH...I wouldn't have called you IF I was just having bad heartburn...I actually had a heart attack when I was calling and 10% of my heart is dead...which he couldnt' have helped but he COULD have told me what was happening.

When I actually had another one..shortly after...I felt so sick I drove myself to the emergency room and as soon as I sat down and told them what I was experiencing....he said he would be right back and the lights started flashing on this one door and they were wheeling me in fast....I hadn't even considered a heart attack.

As for the glucose...I haven't had a reading of over 200 ever...I think 160 something was the most. My friend lost one eye from diabetes damage and she is now considering having a fake eye put in..but the other eye is also bad and she is not legally blind.

When I did my experiments with food....pasta, bread, potato, rice..all bad. I thought I was gonna "die" without these foods..but puh-lease....I kicked my own ass. The truth is the opposite..I might die BECAUSE of these foods....

I think I had pasta once last year..lasagna...and bread maybe 5 times last year. I had the Five Guys French fries cooked in peanut oil though maybe 10 times...but nothing else. The rice I have in sizzling rice soup (my favorite..yum) is minimal.....

The fruit I eat though..alot every day..has no effect on my sugar levels. I have also tried the dark chocolate bars with the word SUGAR (nothing that ends with an "ose")...and no change....same with a few other things that use real or cane sugar...my numbers don't change after 6 hours..but I am not sure what they would be if I took them right away....

 

[eastofeden]

My earlier comments were directed more toward the OP but they are broad enough to also apply to your post, too.


A new grad nurse and a first year med student would have been expected to catch diabetes. Blood sugar level is in the most basic of lab tests.


The "white food" rule. It's always the processed foods and foods that are white that seem to also have the highest glycemic index.

Don't give up on the peas. Not all peas are created equal and the non-starchy variety are usually okay to eat, especially if you also eat the shells.

It's true that when you are exercising, you do need to watch your blood sugar levels- even if that means testing your blood sugar before and after a workout. Bring a low to moderate carb protein shake with you to the gym to drink after your workouts. Another alternative to take for a workout snack is single-serving peanut butter (the raw, high-fat kind which doesn't have added sugar) or peanut butter on crackers.

You'll find that as you develop more muscle and trim off fat, you won't have as wide of a swing of your blood sugars when you work out. It takes some time but stick to it.

I avoid almost all processed foods....I think they are responsible for a lot of the health problems that arise.

Do you think that the exercise will affect the fasting blood sugar level six hours later?

 

[KaraBulut]

Ahh...THANK YOU ...I did not even consider that I would still be a Type 2 diabetic even if my numbers were in the non diabetic range. When they say "reverse"...does that mean you should still consider yourself diabetic even with the low numbers? Is it anything like alcoholism?...meaning....I will still refer to myself as an alcoholic even though I haven't had a drink in over 30 years...and some people question that.

Alcoholism is a good analogy- just because the person isn't drunk at the moment doesn't change that they are an alcoholic. Or maybe another way to think of it is like an allergy- just because you're not sneezing or breaking out in hives on a particular day doesn't mean that you don't still have the allergy.

What has changed about the way we view type 2 diabetes is that we're realizing that the high blood sugar levels are a symptom of a something researchers are calling metabolic syndrome. We used to think that it was the elevated blood sugar that caused problems like heart disease, kidney disease and the other complications that we see in diabetics. What we're realizing is that controlling blood sugar levels is just one part of the treatment.

The key to keeping metabolic syndrome under control is to be active and to reduce stored fat levels in the body (with diet and exercise). In some people, oral medications that affect either insulin production (e.g. sulfonylureas) or change metabolism (e.g. metformin) are also used. When people with metabolic syndrome reduce fat stores, increase their muscle strength and eat a healthier diet, their blood sugar becomes more stable, their blood pressure comes down and they are less likely to have the long-term complications like heart disease.

In other words, blood sugar is the symptom; it's the stored fat, bad diet and lack of exercise that are the cause.

But just like with the earlier comparison to alcoholism or an allergy- even if your symptoms are well controlled, you still have the underlying condition, so even if your doctor is able to reduce or eliminate some of your medications, you still have to be diligent about exercising and keeping your weight down.

Is A1C levels the same as taking a blood sugar reading? I am confused about that.

There's two ways that we measure "blood sugar":

1. Serum glucose (aka "blood sugar") tells us what your level is at the moment the blood was sampled. As you know, this level can change up and down based upon what you've eaten, what time of day it is and other factors. We still use the fingerstick blood sugar testing because it's a quick and inexpensive way to monitor levels daily and when needed.
2. A1C is a way to measure whether your blood sugar levels have been controlled over the past couple of months. When blood sugars are high, some of the sugar sticks to red blood cells. A1C is a measure of how much blood sugar has stuck onto the red blood cells. A high A1C means that your blood sugars have not been well-controlled over the past few weeks.

The way to think of this is like the grades you get in school. Your fingerstick blood sugars are like pop quizzes. The serum glucose blood test done when you get blood drawn at the lab is like an big exam. Your A1C is the grade you get a the end of the course (which is an average of all the exam and pop quizzes that you've taken that semester).

So, when you see your doctor, he's looking at two different things: The serum glucose tells us where you blood sugar is at today. The A1C tells us how well your blood sugar levels have been controlled over the past few weeks/months.

If your blood sugar is 120 and your A1C is 6%, then we would say that your blood sugar was a bit high when it was taken but overall, your levels for the past couple of months have been very good (because your A1C is still fairly low).

On the other hand, if your blood sugar is 120 but your A1C is 8%, then that tells us that your blood sugar was high when it was taken but it has been consistently high for the past couple of months (because the A1C is high).

Do you think that the exercise will affect the fasting blood sugar level six hours later?

Exercise is part of the long-term fix for type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. For people who are still having issues with blood sugars being up and down, intense exercise can cause a rapid drop in blood sugar (muscles are very efficient at using blood glucose). So, that's why it's important to monitor your blood sugar before and after exercise.

The effect of exercise on blood sugar levels is immediate because it is the muscles that are consuming the glucose in the blood. During your workout, the muscles are using a lot of glucose. Immediately afterward, your muscles do continue to use glucose but the rate of glucose consumption drops rapidly after you stop working out. So, the effects drop over time and would be closer to normal after 6 hours.

 

[lambdaboy]

As far as I know only diabetes 2 can be cured by diet and weight loss.

 

[eastofeden]

Alcoholism is a good analogy- just because the person isn't drunk at the moment doesn't change that they are an alcoholic. Or maybe another way to think of it is like an allergy- just because you're not sneezing or breaking out in hives on a particular day doesn't mean that you don't still have the allergy.

What has changed about the way we view type 2 diabetes is that we're realizing that the high blood sugar levels are a symptom of a something researchers are calling metabolic syndrome. We used to think that it was the elevated blood sugar that caused problems like heart disease, kidney disease and the other complications that we see in diabetics. What we're realizing is that controlling blood sugar levels is just one part of the treatment.

The key to keeping metabolic syndrome under control is to be active and to reduce stored fat levels in the body (with diet and exercise). In some people, oral medications that affect either insulin production (e.g. sulfonylureas) or change metabolism (e.g. metformin) are also used. When people with metabolic syndrome reduce fat stores, increase their muscle strength and eat a healthier diet, their blood sugar becomes more stable, their blood pressure comes down and they are less likely to have the long-term complications like heart disease.

In other words, blood sugar is the symptom; it's the stored fat, bad diet and lack of exercise that are the cause.

But just like with the earlier comparison to alcoholism or an allergy- even if your symptoms are well controlled, you still have the underlying condition, so even if your doctor is able to reduce or eliminate some of your medications, you still have to be diligent about exercising and keeping your weight down.


There's two ways that we measure "blood sugar":

1. Serum glucose (aka "blood sugar") tells us what your level is at the moment the blood was sampled. As you know, this level can change up and down based upon what you've eaten, what time of day it is and other factors. We still use the fingerstick blood sugar testing because it's a quick and inexpensive way to monitor levels daily and when needed.
2. A1C is a way to measure whether your blood sugar levels have been controlled over the past couple of months. When blood sugars are high, some of the sugar sticks to red blood cells. A1C is a measure of how much blood sugar has stuck onto the red blood cells. A high A1C means that your blood sugars have not been well-controlled over the past few weeks.

The way to think of this is like the grades you get in school. Your fingerstick blood sugars are like pop quizzes. The serum glucose blood test done when you get blood drawn at the lab is like an big exam. Your A1C is the grade you get a the end of the course (which is an average of all the exam and pop quizzes that you've taken that semester).

So, when you see your doctor, he's looking at two different things: The serum glucose tells us where you blood sugar is at today. The A1C tells us how well your blood sugar levels have been controlled over the past few weeks/months.

If your blood sugar is 120 and your A1C is 6%, then we would say that your blood sugar was a bit high when it was taken but overall, your levels for the past couple of months have been very good (because your A1C is still fairly low).

On the other hand, if your blood sugar is 120 but your A1C is 8%, then that tells us that your blood sugar was high when it was taken but it has been consistently high for the past couple of months (because the A1C is high).




Exercise is part of the long-term fix for type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. For people who are still having issues with blood sugars being up and down, intense exercise can cause a rapid drop in blood sugar (muscles are very efficient at using blood glucose). So, that's why it's important to monitor your blood sugar before and after exercise.

The effect of exercise on blood sugar levels is immediate because it is the muscles that are consuming the glucose in the blood. During your workout, the muscles are using a lot of glucose. Immediately afterward, your muscles do continue to use glucose but the rate of glucose consumption drops rapidly after you stop working out. So, the effects drop over time and would be closer to normal after 6 hours.

WOW! I have to say your information is perfect. I think you are better than any of those medical sites....so again...THANK YOU!

At this moment..I have a much better understanding of the disease and a clear vision on how to proceed. I am very grateful for the time you took to give me the info...so thanks again!

 

[RoadBike]

Type 2 diabetic here. I retired earlier this year. My prescription drug plan used to pay for Invokamet and Victoza ($1,200 retail per month). That had to change. The doctor hooked me up with samples for the past 6 months, but I had to look for a long-range holistic solution other than drugs. I knew that I had to stop eating all refined carbs. I weaned myself off of the expensive meds by self-control, and now only take metformin.

Last month, I saw a show on PBS titled: EAT TO LIVE with Dr. Joel Fuhrman. He spoke mostly about reversing diabetes through his Nutritarian Diet. It's not a fad diet, but an optimal eating plan for diabetics - basically grain-free vegan. It's been 4 weeks, and I've lost at least 15 pounds. My blood sugar readings have been in the 120s - 130s (instead of 150 - 170). Dr. Fuhrman states that it takes 3 - 6 months to reverse diabetes, and I'm going to give it my best shot. I feel great. When I was first diagnosed with type 2, I weighed 285 pounds, I'm about 185 now, and looking to trim down to 160. I am not going to be a slave to diabetes when I know how to fix it. So far, so good.

Check out Dr. Fuhrman's books!

 

[Benvolio]

Looking at the nutritarian diet on the internet, it does no seem to allow much protein. Not enough, it seems to me.

 

[ShadowCat]

Do not stop any medication without talking to your Dr. My mom was on Metformin and all she was doing was having diarrhea she was only taking 1000 mg a day the dr wanted her to take 2000 but she was going to the bathroom 5 6 7 and 8 times a day while eating healthy foods nothing would stay put. It was unpredictable and would happen at all hours so we never knew what we could do because you never knew when old faithful was gonna go off. Enough was enough she talked to her dr who adjusted her Tresiba dose. You really need to take your medications on a better schedule, drink lots and lots of water because you do not want lactic acidosis (a build up of lactic acid in the body) also limit the carbs and sugar really need to stress that one.