Did Bush make Obama possible?

[chance1]

what a great post - that seems to have fallen on deaf ears

Bush fatigue/loathing/etc seems to have opened the door for a newbie/novice/who the fuck is he candidate - pres. elect obama

in other years, against other politicians, BO would have been eliminated in the primaries - put aside as unready/untested/unworthy

instead those qualities became irrelevant as in "we just had the worst president ever - how could BO be worse"

not saying BO did not run a terrific campaign, cuz he did - both in the primary and general

but all the stars were aligned

because of GWB, Hillary's whole pitch was stunted - she was too much like GWB - supporting the war was an albatross, not considered as she had expected "presidential"

as for conservatives ............ lack of support for mccain was due to his not really being a conservative - i believe some of that was "cut off ur nose ........."

david brooks spoke glowingly of obama - as a man who listens, knows people, very capable - i trust db - and his words carry much weight with me as i know he is not aligned with BO's policies so his cred on saying positives ..........

anyway ........

great post/thread

maybe some of the BO lovers will hop on

probably to give u grief

we'll see

 

[MCsNo1Fn]

McCain just wasn't a good pick for the Republicans, along with Palin.
Obviously, I don't think it surprised anyone that a Dem would be elected for the sole fact that Bush had been there 8 years, and managed to doom us all. I find it hard to believe that there's one person in the country that thought for a second that Obama WASN'T gonna get it.

So yes, if Bush had been an excellent President, it wouldn't have been such a given, but considering Obama is a one-of-a-kind type of deal, and it helps to be multi-racial, it was inevitable.

 

[chance1]

He probably did, and thank fucking God he did.

Now let's go ahead and hear from the O-bashers who will interpret this as "Obama didn't deserve it" or "Affirmative Action" or "This is the ONLY reason he won."

Couldn't have been because of the CLASSY campaign he ran, the refusal to resort to Mccain's tactics of "No lie or half-truth is too big to be told."

Couldn't be because he's a Harvard grad/first black president of the Harvard Law Review, couldn't be because the GOP exposed it's divisive, racist nature for all of America to see.

there u go

with ur "obama bashers .............."

it's like saying ouch before u get hit

it's the anticipatory ouch i guess

LOL

ur hopeless marley

god i hope "ur hopeless" isn't baiting or a personal insult or even worse ................... a racial insult

 

[chance1]

I'm waiting for the usual assholes to start calling him "The Savior" again.

"the savior"

 

[chance1]

Are you denying such a thing exists? Forgive me, but I make two assumptions:

1. Big as this country is, a sizeable percentage doesn't like him.

2. The people in Point 1 have internet access.

1+2=the logical conclusion that Obama gets bashed on the internet (among other medium).



No it's not, it's like expressing my opinion.



Do you HAVE to speak in riddles and suggestions and speculations? Whatever happened to 'tellin it like it is'? Instead of addressing words, you weave around them, twist them, and somehow come out with 2+2=19. I've heard of linguistic efficiency but this is ridiculous. You've yet to find a fact that you can't turn into an ugly lie.



Everything you post is bait. The mods have come to accept it, so have I. No hair off my balls.

"sizeable"? his approval ratings are astronomical

other than left over KKK members, he's got our backing

expressing ur opinion should be about responding to an attack - u complained before any came - boy crying wolf - u do it all the time with BO - u cry that ur hit before u get hit

the "anticipatory" ouch is a pretty simple concept - not sure why ur struggling with it - it was preceded by "telling it like it is"

yeah yeah - everything is bait

and anyone who doesn't love obama is a racist

blah blah blah

ur demagoguery is very unappealing and obvious

 

[chance1]

That won't always be the case, it's easy to get high approval when you haven't even been sworn into office yet, let alone gotten to the nitty gritty. People are sheep.



Fixed that for ya. The statements I said would be posted have been posted in CE&P more times than I care to count. Proving that would be as easy as digging through election-era threads. If I thought it was worth the time. I stand by my statements.

At the same time, I openly admitted that coming on the heels of Bush gave him an edge. By putting McPain and Scare-ah Palin on the ticket, the repubs basically handed Obama the election.

anyone other than mccain (huckabee/romney) would've gotten obliterated - im thinking 60+ for obama

mccain was the most reasonable choice

and palin did not hurt mccain - she jump started his surge in the polls - once people scratched the veneer (or rather once the hypocritical media did) they became uncomfortable

but strangely they did not apply that standard to the pres elect

wall st. meltdown hurt mccain

once that happened ............... gonzo

IMHO

 

[chance1]

This is speculation, not worth a response.



I know, that's sad. You guy brought a Care Bear plush doll to a gun-fight. While you were trying to pull us into the dark ages with John "MLK don't need no holiday" Mccain and Sarah "Barefoot and teenage pregnant" Palin, the Dems were breaking records and making history left and right. First woman. Campaign financing. First black male. First president with an Arabic name.

The Dems offered America a lovely plate of paella con brazo de gitano for dessert. The repubs offered a microwave dinner that was a century past it's expiration date. Sorry, hate and lies won't cut it anymore.



You've gotta be fucking kidding me. Am I on Candid E-camera?



Yeah, before that HUUGE plunge.



Yeah, how dare the media, like, ask her questions and stuff. They just wouldn't quit asking her questions about stuff and things and stuff.



As did his reputation as a lobbyist, Bush apologist, philanderer, manipulator, his wife's drug abuse (as a mother no-less), his failure to pay property taxes, unforgivably hateful campaign, condescendign attitude, and giving America it's newest addition to the "Most Annoying Words" list: maverick.

speculation? right winger vs. obama? getting obliterated

try common sense

dems breaking records? BO won by a few % points

ur "barefoot and teenage pregnant" remark is lame but i will consider the source

u seem very unhappy even though BO won

can't imagine u if he had lost

 

[chance1]

Palin sank the GOP ticket. Does any sane person not recognize this?

well said

before palin, mccain was down by approx 7 % pts

palin lifted him above obama by approx 2 % pts

unlike BO's convention where he got little/no lift

McCain got a bump - big mofo bump - from sarah - regardless of hour YOU feel about her

he was doing fine - despite the weight of 8 years of GWB, Iraq war, gas prices, etc

then wall st. meltdown

ck ur timelime drew

instead of just relying on ur hatred for the woman

it's a toughie

but try

 

[chance1]

I can't make common sense of fragmented sentences.



Winning by 1 point is still winning. He would've won by a larger percentage if some of America wasn't convinced that he's an Arabic terrorist/thug that's gonna move all his homies from Harlem and Pakistan into the White House and get gun powder and chicken grease stains all over the upholstrey.



Sorry, when your own daughter proves that your archaic views on sex education are not only misguided but dangerous, that's a self-imposed TKO.



Unhappy, indifferent, to-may-to, to-mah-to.



Don't need to imagine, I've seen Roots.

u seem to be doing fine responding to "fragmented" sentences - u can't have it both ways

BO an arabic thug? please - more demagoguery on ur part - u seem to have a lotta al sharpton in u - love the chicken grease stains

her daughter is a family matter - even BO said so - i guess ur standards for contact r lower

ur big on "perceived" injustices before they happen

must be nice

to make charges before they happen

seems ass backwards to me

 

[naked gent]

I paused to wonder if the dynamics of the Bush presidency actually helped in large part to make the Obama presidency possible.

But was it this Bush fatigue and the need for change that made the election of Barak Obama possible? Were so many so ready to take a leap of faith because of what they witnessed over the past eight years?

Palindromos I not only agree with you but posted similar thoughts during the primary season.

In addition to the reasons you've given I also think Bush made Obama possible because he hurt Mrs. Clinton's candidacy because of her and her husband's participation in the highly partisan atmosphere surrounding Washington.

I'm not saying it was all the Clinton's fault but it did make them seem to be apart of the Bush era of such factious politics.

So Obama benefitted from Bush not only because he was new and different but because his chief primary opponent looked like more of the same.

And of course she voted for his war which, it turns out, doomed her candidacy from the start.

 

[chance1]

Once people got to know her through interviews, she became the albatross most of us pegged her for from the git-go. Remember that BRUTAL question "What magazines and newspapers do you read?" Yikes.

Check your oxygen supply, chance. I don't hate the woman. But I did not want someone so horribly out of touch with world events to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. I can't imagine why you would.

check my oxygen supply? yikes

mccain went for the fences with palin - he was in trouble and tried to do a ladies night thing - get hillary voters

in the end, she is not why he lost

he did not communicate what he was going to do with the economy
his campaign was not cohesive like BO's

i would not have wanted her as President - could care less who the VP is really - the idea that "mccain was going to die soooooooooooo" i found repulsive

the idea that BO has such limited experience i was not/am not comfortable with

but he got the gig so i support him

most of the 85 could not/would not say the same if mccain had won

which is telling

 

[Zingerific]

To go back to the original question (if that's allowed ) -- it is absolutely true that Bush's unpopularity helped Obama. On the other hand, it's hard to think of a recent case where the former President's popularity didn't have an impact:

If Reagan wasn't popular, would Bush the elder have won the first time? No. It's hard to imagine him elected dog catcher without Reagan's coat tails.

If Bush the elder wasn't unpopular, would Clinton have won the first time? No. Clinton had some of the same problems as Obama -- he had no foreign policy experience and he was awfully young (younger than Obama, in fact). Had the economy not tanked, George H.W. Bush probably would have been reelected in 1992; sound familiar?

Another point is that Bush's unpopularity really hurt McCain. McCain has been (rightfully, in my view) accused of running a terrible campaign. I believe a large part of that is due to not knowing what to do about Bush. Does he stick with Bush and appeal to the base, or does he run as a maverick? Well, he tried a little of each and ended up alienating just about everyone.

As far as the resume goes... it probably helped Obama to have a thin resume. He was able to convince people that he had experience enough, and he didn't have those pesky, inconvenient Senate votes to come back to haunt him (like H. Clinton's vote to authorize use of force in Iraq, which is what probably ended up losing her the nomination).

 

[chance1]

^ where have u been ??

coulda used ur calm demeanor here

hope all is well

 

[Glafna]

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[Glafna]

Yes, if Bush wasn't such a complete idiot, and have an utter lack of what being a country's representative, as well as being an American, let alone a moral person, is, then Obama might not have gotten elected. But with McCain and Palin.... how the fuck could he lose? I mean, maybe without Palin, McCain might have had a shot. But her and her supporters were so 'maverick' they lost McCain the election because they wanted a Palin-whoever ticket in 2012. Honestly though, there wasn't a moment when I didn't think that Obama wouldn't be elected, especially when he refused to start mud-slinging when it came to the families of the Republican candidates.

 

[chatolandia]

I think Bush 8 years has a lot to do with the Democrats' win in 2008

I've said it many times


I think, honestly that had Bush and the economy were not a big factor, Obama might not even be nominated this election (maybe the next one). But it was a big factor.

McCain tried to be what he was never before, a true right wing conservative, and that killed him. He was also too old, and with the wrong vice-Presidential candidate. That's three strikes...


The economy was awful for McCain, but he made some huge tactical mistakes also. And Palin was probably the biggest one for him.


She has a strong following, but it's also a narrow following. Narrow followings don't win elections.

Hillary, did not run a good campaign either, that helped Obama also.


But what really made Obama win, in spite all his weaknesses as a candidate is that he ran a brilliant campaign. Just Brilliant, no big mistakes, nothing...


and he let the mistakes of others, Bush, McCain (that one?), Palin, and Hillary, move to his favor.


and that's why he won...

 

[grantt]

Tomorrow we get the most unknown commodity in the form of president. I think you said it well, ZINGERIFIC:

" As far as the resume goes... it probably helped Obama to have a thin resume. He was able to convince people that he had experience enough, and he didn't have those pesky, inconvenient Senate votes to come back to haunt him (like H. Clinton's vote to authorize use of force in Iraq, which is what probably ended up losing her the nomination)."

Maybe it's what was most important in the end....to get the "ideal" and the "hope". He talks a great talk. Looks mighy slick. I hope that beyond that, he
is a great magician to fix what ails this country. I don't think he can do all that many think he can do. "Yes We Can" is a simple phrase for a complex world. And he'll succeed on many levels. He is a smart guy despite the fact that he is a brilliant politician. The latter got him in office, and the former will give him several shiny stars.

Just like CHANCE 1 and a couple of others on here, I, too, support him and wish him success. His success is everyone's success. I hope he is the saviour he was annointed to be, but, if not, I hope he has enough tricks to please his followers and heal some of the ails of this nation.

As for Bush, All this talk of him being stupid is in the ridiculous. The nation elected him twice....yes, twice...and he ruled under the most turbulent times of this country, including that of FDR. No leader has had to put up with the shit he has....much of which he rightly deserved...and still make decisions that he knew would be unpopular. I don't think he is arragant or stupid, but he is thick skinned. And he is incredibly loyal to his own....like Rumsfield. But that is a whole new thread....

So "Go Obama Go". I wish you would ease up on the Lincoln comparison just a little, so it can be believeable. Oh well, if it gets your rocks off.

 

[jmidnight]

Of course President Bush made Obama possible, the same way President Clinton made Bush possible. Isn't that the way?

In the months after 9/11, the majority of people in this country were scared shitless. So scared, that lawmakers pretty much let the Bush administration do whatever they needed to do. Years later after all the dirty work was done, people started to feel safe again, it became politics as usual. How different things would have been had Bush actually failed, and there had been a few more attacks.

We went into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban, we went into Iraq to get out of Saudi Arabia. Every fucking elected politician knows this, and knows what the consequences could have been had we not done what we needed to do... but they play the public for fools, and it makes me sick.

So now we elected a black man to the highest office, and we'll all jump up and down on inauguration day because it's so cool. My oh my! How things will change!

Let's just hope Mr. Change will have the balls to put my safety ahead of winning a fucking popularity contest with the great unwashed.

Watching the coverage of the Obama inauguration and the observing genuine excitement that most of the country is feeling, I paused to wonder if the dynamics of the Bush presidency actually helped in large part to make the Obama presidency possible.

For so many reason, few will mourn the departure of the 43rd president. From the beginning the election of Bush was divisive and his policies at best misguided--no need to repeat the mistakes here.

But was it this Bush fatigue and the need for change that made the election of Barak Obama possible? Were so many so ready to take a leap of faith because of what they witnessed over the past eight years?

Observe the number of people from those such as Warren Buffet and Christopher Buckley, son of William F. Buckley, to small business owners who tend to vote Republican who endorsed Obama. Many chose to vote for Obama precisely because their disappointment in Bush led them to make choices that they might not have made otherwise. The dynamics of the Bush administration made us very ready for all that Obama stands for.

None of this is to detract from the positives of Barak Obama; I'm simply suggesting that Bush's failures tipped the balance to make this historical election possible. A reasonably successful Bush presidency, Congress' failings notwithstanding, would probably have brought us more status quo to the ballot boxes in November 2008.

So, in some odd way, do we owe an Obama presidency and all it portends to some extent to Bush?

 

[youngnihilist]

Bush did everything right. The problem was the pussyass American people couldn't stomach what he was doing, so he got unpopular. Cry me a river. So yes, Bush made Obama possible partially. But let's not forget McCain was leading in September. If it wasn't for The mainstream left wing commie media skewering Palin (aided by that bitch Tina Fey) + the market meltdown, then McCain probably would have won.

Hope and change.. well 58 million americans and 47% of the elctorate voted for McCain. let's not forget that.

 

[wastingmymind]

Sure, wars that cost so much money and manpower that the country has to go into debt for them. An economy built on fake money. Any country can stomach that.

I also really detest how Republicans can justify McCain's loss due to the economy. As if its downfall's not a) important, b) inevitable.