Different levels of "GAY"

[Joshua_me]

i havent heard it but I read a review that it was really awesome

Two words: GET IT !

oops...

 

[james1200]

Actually I was gonna say something...but I got side tracked with all this talk about teh buttsehkz.


I have to say I'm surprised by LL's comments....Well frankly You guys are honest unlike some people.

well thank you. i expect honesty from a caprican.

 

[james1200]

who's filled with hate...i'm half irish...i'm passionate...and drunk.

 

[Joshua_me]

Sorry,, but I happen to know about this one.

I work at the Fratpad, and we have a bunch of guys who cam for gay men all day , and when we go out to party, the ones who were straight when they started are all still straight... they just pick up girls and are only interested in girls. They don't freak out about the interaction they have with the men who pay to see them on cam and they don't claim that they were turned gay by showing off for men on cam.

it's so sad that you're still deluding yourself that gay men turned you gay and that you'll be able to make it all go away.

It's also sad that you claim to have morals when your actions prove otherwise. I've known many gay men who have more morals than you could ever hope to have.

Well yeah....

But J... You've, um, 'tagged' a couple of girls in your day, (and *what* a flattering term that is) And you can't tell me on *some* level you didn't enjoy it....

I mean, I have too and have NO desire to return, but I don't regret the experience, either....

It is, after all, all part of the rich cornucopia that is life itself...

Gawd, I just choked on my own BS.

But, seriously...

Joshy

 

[Swellegant]

I just finished my book, and I'm not sleepy yet, so I wandered back in here.

The problem is I make a fkn living off webcamming with gay guys and it rubs off on you. Take any straight guy and have him do webcam chats w/ horny gay guys for 4 hours a day and you'll turn him into a flamer in 2 weeks flat!

I don't think any of us believe that is true. There is no empirical evidence except your own statement that it can be true. In fact, if you took a poll of a thousand scientists who've studied human sexuality closely, you'd be hard-pressed to find one who agrees that such a thing is possible. If you took a poll of a thousand heterosexual men and women who have performed in homosexual porn, and asked them if they engage in homosexual behavior on their own time, I don't think you'd find any. Hence our bewilderment at your continued use of this excuse for your homosexual attractions.

I just believe in traditional families and I would like to have one some day.

I believe in traditional families, too. But that belief does not work in the modern world because it does not take into account the fact that even straight people don't have traditional families anymore. The tradition itself is in the midst of change. And either way, beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with justice or rights or Constitutional law: only the exercise of reason can be used in such cases. Beliefs have nothing to do with it.

It is "belief" and traditional religion that have stunted civil rights and social progress in our country: it was (and still frequently is) believed that African-Americans were not really human, or at best inferior humans; it was believed that women were constitutionally incapable of making decisions about their own bodies, much less about representative government; it was believed that homosexuality was a form of mental illness at best and criminal insanity at worst (those webcams by which you make your living would have been a felony activity back then).

Those beliefs polluted our laws and are slowly being stripped away... not because we believe they should, but because the application of reason has shown that African-Americans are indeed human, and of the same species with only a few ethnotypic variations as Caucasians, that women are just as mentally capable as men (if not moreso), and that homosexuals are not criminally insane or mentally ill.

Until and unless someone can come up with a valid rational reason, supported by valid rational evidence, why same-sex marriage is harmful to anyone, there is no reason it should be illegal. The same shall be said of gay adoption, or of any other right that anyone seeks and which does not deprive anyone else of any of their rights. This is what our Constitution is meant to guarantee to all citizens.

Hopefully by then I wont be camming and can work on any habits I might have developed earlier on. This "gay fetish" is a thorn in my side that Im not proud of, and if I could just end it, I would.

I don't have anything to say about that... except that I've heard similar statements from a lot of people who tried really hard not to be gay but eventually stopped beating themselves up about something over which they have no control.

You can control your behavior (such as getting a legitimate job instead of webcamming, and not fucking around with men regardless of how bored or horny you might be), but you will never escape the basic fact of your sexual attractions, no matter how much you surround yourself in a world that forbids such attraction. Whatever it is (and again, I don't pretend to know what's going on in your head, only you can know that, and even then you can only know that after serious introspection and a whole lot of self-interrogation), it's going to be there forever. It might change, it might morph, it might grow to include more things or become fixated on a particular fetish. But it will never ever go away, not even when you're a hundred years old and you can't even get it up.

So in the mean time, I come HERE to talk with others that might be in the same boat.

You've been hearing from a lot of people who have been in that same boat, and who are intensely grateful that they got out of it. Listen to them, child!

If, on the other hand, you seek confirmation that the life-plan you've mapped out is the right one, I think you're barking up the wrong tree by airing those views here, in this forum of this board. Find the forum where there are happy people happily married and happily removing the "gay fetish" thorn from their sides. I don't know where they are, I've never heard of a happy ex-gay, but what do I know?

 

[Lostlover]

Robert... another wise post.

I like how anti-gay rights people say that giving gays the right to marry and adopt destroys the worth of marriage and a family. I don't think straights are doing too well but that's not nearly being addressed as much as giving gays rights in that matter.

Hell breaks loose when a small portion of the population (gays) demand equal rights that the majority (straights) are neglecting and or ignoring.

 

[Soilwork]

Well yeah....

But J... You've, um, 'tagged' a couple of girls in your day, (and *what* a flattering term that is) And you can't tell me on *some* level you didn't enjoy it....

to be honest, I had to close my eyes and think of men.

I was having lunch with one of the Fratmen the other day, and he was trying to decide if he was straight or bisexual.

He said he's really just interested in girls, but on occasion when he gets horny and he's a little buzzed, he'll get into having sex with guys. Never when sober, and only on occasion.

I told him that drunk as a skunk or sober as the pope, I'd sooner lick my dog's ass than have sex with a girl.

He burst out laughing and told me that he was most definitely bisexual because "I'd rather have sex with you than lick your dog's ass".






well, i thought it was funny.

 

[james1200]

robert's too reasoned for this thread...

 

[blackbeltninja]

Surfboy can grow and change if we don't run him off.... if we don't forget that he is a young guy in the sex industry trying to make his way and figure out what it all means, both his sexuality and his values. do you guys remember what it was like when you first started acnowledging your sexual identity? it didn't feel too good did it? carrying the weight of your parents values and the desires of your heart simultaneously can be painfull.

Surfboy is trying his best to evolve as a human being and while he seems to be doing it in a really messy way, if he sticks around he has the potential to become something really incredible.

oh... it wont happen overnight and he wont ever be a model citizen, but niether am I and neither is anyone else here.

Thank G_d (who I'm not sure even exists) - finally some empathy, And in a well-thought out response, too.

If only all the pop-psychologists out there actually had this much insight into the humankind they can so accurately sum-up with but a mere glance...

-d-

 

[Centexfarmer]

effortless pro - do you or do you not agree that a gay person can be against gay marriages? is it possible?

There is actually an entire thread (I remember seeing your post in there too) of gays debating over gay marriage - for and against it.

So with that said, I dont see how me being against certain gay rights is being hypocrytical at all.

If Im wrong, just clarify, thats all.

Well, I'll take a go at it.

Since, by your own admission, you're "straight" you DON'T GET TO DECIDE.

I have straight friends, married friends, a sister and neighbors, and friends who support the equality of Gays and Lesbians and the equality to marry, and to have and adopt children, and guess what THEY'RE STRAIGHT!

What you've failed to do, beyond pulling a dialogue/debate out of CE&P is to justify WHY we shouldn't have those rights.

Words like "traditional" and "family values" are CODE WORDS for up tight fascists, who LIKE TO TAKE UP THE ASS without accepting the responsiblity of what that means!

After reading every post in this thread, and the responses that you've given, I think what you're really looking for is some type of affirmation. For someone, anyone to say, "Hey dude I'm just as fucked up as you are, and I agree with you!" Without ryhme or reason.

Well, if you had posted this in CE&P, I'm sure that there would be some dipshit that would have hopped on your band wagon by post #3.

But this is Hot Topics, and as broad as a spectrum that this Forum represents, you still haven't found anyone to justify your BS. As I post this you're up to 133 replies and 937 views.

That aught to tell you something.

Maybe you'd get more sympathy at an "EX-GAY" ministry website.



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[sparky95]

My guess ,Surfboy, is that seeing you are just a whore, then you would like to under cut any values that may distract from your money makeing, such as happy gay men in a married relationship- even,gasp, those with children! Of course, being really hetrosexual ( and I don't doubt for a minute you are) when you are finished making enough money selling your arse to the real perverts ,you can slip comfortable in a REAL relationship with a woman and live happily ever after. But just because you make your money as a prostitute, well , why would you respect the johns out there? You really arn't like them at all, are you?

 

[kurtwild]

im totally gay.


i love boys!

 

[sb]

I just read this thread from beginning to end.... prolly the first time I've done that with a four page thread.... and I don't understand.... so many things don't add up. But I agree with soilwork, effortless pro, james1200 and all the others who said similar things.

I'm really proud that I own my sexuality and I'm not ashamed of it.

 

[Soilwork]

I think the problem is most people on this board have come to accept their homosexuality and are fine with it.

Well, yes... many of us have. And many of the guys here did it not by being jerks to out gay men or fighting their rights to prove we were straight but by just learning to accept the things we cannot change.

Me, Im ashamed of it and working hard to rid myself of it. It wasnt always there, and I know it doesnt always have to be either.

The really sad thing is that you're just one in a long line of millions of men who are gay and have fought against it tooth and nail, only to discover that they've wasted their time and most of their lives trying to right something that isn't wrong.

You're wasting your time trying to turn straight... and it's just not possible. Even the Ex-gay people who blather on and on about how they're not gay anymore will admit that yes... they're still gay, they just dont' "act" on it. As if "GAY" is something you do and not something you are.

You know, you can have that traditional family that you want with the house in the suburbs and the 5 kids and the dog and soccer practice. you just might have to do it with your partner instead of your wife.

I try really hard to relate to people, be more open minded, and not so bull headed in my beliefs. It just takes time.

So far your'e doing a crappy job of it, but the self realization has at least made me want to throw you into the pit of eternal stench just a little bit less. What you really need to do it NOT try to respect others... Learn to respect and love yourself and the rest will follow all on it's own.

Yes, many of us have been in that self-hating phase. Hey, if I got past it, so can you.

I wasn't ALWAYS so perfect, you know.

 

[TaigaStar]

Alright, there are quite a few posts that I want to respond to, but I'm not bothering to quote them.

1) First of all, the notion of a traditional family is bull. "Tradition" is basically an excuse make up by a bunch of people trying to perpetuate something as a norm. Normality and tradition are the two biggest myths that humanity clings to. My parents were divorced; I lived with my mother and saw my father every day of my life. That's certainly neither normal or traditional. One of my cousins comes from a "traditional" family--mother, father, two brothers, two sisters, suburban community, etc; he's had drug and alcohol abuse problems for the past 16 years. That's where traditional values lead, there's just more use of denial to describe a family.

2) Christians get slammed for everything; we're not all "gay-haters," as our basic belief is to love everyone. Admittedly, Christians haven't been ideal role models in history, but that's neither here nor there. There are other religions that speak out against homosexuality. Andreus, didn't you bring this up once?

3) Morality, though it pains me to admit, tends to be subjective. We shouldn't slam Surfboy about morals for this reason.

4) I disagree with the statement that camming for gay men can rub off on anybody. In the beginning, it could be argued that you were exploring your sexuality, etc. However, if you're sleeping with men between girlfriends, and still trying to say you're heterosexual, you're deluding yourself. I know I'm the last person here who should be commenting on this part, but fantasizing about something and actually acting on something are two completely different things. (In other words, please don't flame me with the opinion that I'm being hypocritical.) Surfboy does have it down that he's bisexual, but it's obvious he doesn't wish to be one openly. That's his decision, not ours.

5) Getting back to tradition, family, and gay rights... It's rather wrong to say men can have sex with each other, but they can't have the rights to protect them. Gay, straight, bi, we're all human beings. Why shouldn't gay families exist? Are strict heterosexuals that worried that their allegedly "perfect" idea of family has been wrong? Sexual orientation has squat to do with how a family turns out. It's better to see a child with two parents of the same gender that know how to love people than to see that child live a life not knowing any sort of love or family, etc.

I think I've addressed everything. And I'm not trying to slam anyone, I'm just voicing opinions is response to things I've read...

 

[_AJ_]

I think the problem is most people on this board have come to accept their homosexuality and are fine with it. Me, Im ashamed of it and working hard to rid myself of it. It wasnt always there, and I know it doesnt always have to be either. I try really hard to relate to people, be more open minded, and not so bull headed in my beliefs. It just takes time. Btw, I just cancelled my ImLive chathost account and plan to apply for a "real job" today. Thanks for the motivation.

o feel sorry that you dont like who you are but maybe you should just try it for a while go with the flow and see what happens
just stop hating urself

 

[Andreus]

There are other religions that speak out against homosexuality. Andreus, didn't you bring this up once?

Absolutely

I had always thought that i had to choose between my faith and my desire to be in loving intimate relationships with men. But... I found that if i shed the blinders of dogma and develope my own spirituality theres a very easy way to be spiritual and gay.

if you believe that the christian bible is right about homosexuality then you also have to believe its right about having to marry your brothers wife if he dies, stoning your wife if she bleeds on something during her period... blah blah blah

Every document that forbids homosexuality for spiritual reasons also forbids many other things that our modern civilized society has recognized as simply ridiculous.

So is it now becoming with homosexuality.

But the religious movements are only as relevant as you want them to be. My faith is the foundation of my spirituality, not the structure of it. I am completely willing to personally investigate every aspect of what I am told is godly or profound, and if it doesnt fit with some basic universal truths, like love, harmony and compassion, then the dogma goes out the window.

Hating gays or hating being gay for the sake of religion is profoundly ridiculous because it asserts that god made us inherently bad and broken. the very concept of an all powerfull diety of any sort precludes that posibility. in the end, I think we need to remember that we are made the way we are to find our destiny and, as so many people have said before in this thread, if you are denying your basic nature, you simply cannot find your real destiny.

Sorry for being so... spiritual in Hot Topics...

just thought that he needed to hear that god and gay really can go together... its religion and gay that has a problem peacefully cohabitating

and there is a difference

 

[MidnightPrism]

Me, Im ashamed of it and working hard to rid myself of it. It wasnt always there, and I know it doesnt always have to be either.

Oh honey. We've been down tis road a thousand times with married men on this board. It just doesn't go away once you get married and have kids.

The really sad thing is that you're just one in a long line of millions of men who are gay and have fought against it tooth and nail, only to discover that they've wasted their time and most of their lives trying to right something that isn't wrong.

You're wasting your time trying to turn straight... and it's just not possible. Even the Ex-gay people who blather on and on about how they're not gay anymore will admit that yes... they're still gay, they just dont' "act" on it. As if "GAY" is something you do and not something you are.

You know, you can have that traditional family that you want with the house in the suburbs and the 5 kids and the dog and soccer practice. you just might have to do it with your partner instead of your wife.

See, SOIL is just trying to help We don't want you to realize 20 years down the road that you want to be with a man but have a wife & 5 kids at home.

 

[ladygrey]

Oh honey,

You're only 18?

Well no wonder you've been posting the stuff you've been posting.

Wait a couple of years

then look back and you might see things differently

or you might not

but either

I do genulily hope you find a peace, with both God and yourself.