Different views of the U.S.

[NickCole]

I go back to the original intent of my post: Please post here a direct quotation from GW Bush linking Iraq to the 9/11 attacks. (Not a Michael Moore version, not an unspecified Internet site.) Go to the original source and tell me when and where a member of the Bush administration said that Saddam Hussein or Iraq was linked to 9/11.

You won't find one in any objective source.

And yet, that's the lie that people want to propogate and spread through the US media and then wonder what people of other nations think of the US.

This is a perfect example of the foxiness and dishonesty of Bush and his followers. It's all about how to effectively create and use propaganda, at which Rove et al are masters.

I'll let an article published in the Christian Science Monitor in 2003 make the point:

The impact of Bush linking 9/11 and Iraq​

WASHINGTON – In his prime-time press conference last week, which focused almost solely on Iraq, President Bush mentioned Sept. 11 eight times. He referred to Saddam Hussein many more times than that, often in the same breath with Sept. 11.

Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president. Still, the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists among much of the American public: that the Iraqi dictator did play a direct role in the attacks. A New York Times/CBS poll this week shows that 45 percent of Americans believe Mr. Hussein was "personally involved" in Sept. 11, about the same figure as a month ago. ...

"The administration has succeeded in creating a sense that there is some connection [between Sept. 11 and Saddam Hussein]," says Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland.

Polling data show that right after Sept. 11, 2001, when Americans were asked open-ended questions about who was behind the attacks, only 3 percent mentioned Iraq or Hussein. But by January of this year, attitudes had been transformed. In a Knight Ridder poll, 44 percent of Americans reported that either "most" or "some" of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Iraqi citizens. The answer is zero.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html

If Bush & Co weren't responsible for transforming the American public's belief that Hussein and 9/11 were linked, who or what was?

 

[justarg26]

i think that we need to split things out...one is what we (foreigners) think about american people and the other one is what we think about your goverment.

i have to agree that invading a country and droping bombs is not a good way to make friends but i also understand, and tend to believe, that the US goverment had it´s fair enough reasons to do so (9/11 was certainly one, despite the issue that it was probably an excessive manipulation of the information or whatsoever). Anyhow, i just wonder what would had been your choice of action in case you were in charge at that time? The million-dollar question, right? This has been debated for centuries and so far i think that no one have come to the right choice. Also i think that it´s really impossible to sit down and have a coffee with a terrorist and tell him to stop killing people because it´s the best for all; they have a totally different point of view about beliefs and i also think that they are being manipulated as well. Plus, for those of you that are mad with the Bush´s administration, let me tell you that you are not even close to the worse...probably you are not aware that in under-developement countries (e.g argentina) corruption, unsteadiness and laws not being respected at all are things we face every single day of our lives, not to mention the awful medical inssuarance and education they provide.

And about the people, i went to the US many times for vacations and let me tell you that you guys have to be proud of the way you treat foreigners; i have never been treated unpolitely or had the feeling that i wasnt welcome. Honestly, i wish i could be able to live in the US and i firmly believe that the ¨american way¨ is something i would like to be part of.

just adding my 2 cents

 

[tbonez]

Ever notice how some people claim to love thier country...and hate half of the people in it?

Just asking.

Sometimes I think Americans just need to have a little laugh at themselves...Helps to break up the monotony of all the uncontrolled sobbing...

http://www.ifilm.com/player/compact...ize=compact&context=product&launchVal=1&data=

 

[james1200]

there's more foreigners...so i guess they win...

 

[Pegasus69]

I don't believe that it is Americans per se that are hated. I think many people of other countries do not like our politics and policies. I will be the first to admit that there are times that we do come off as the school yard bullies, do it my way or I'll hurt ya.

I have travelled extensively and have never been mistreated or spoken to poorly by anyone anywhere, at least not that I was aware of. Where I live we depend on foreign workers a great deal and I do hear less than nice comments tossed around. I am mindful that I am the guest when I am overseas and try to be respectful. I will not be walked on, no matter where I am.

I think that with so many things in life, whatever attitude we carry with us is what is going to decide on how we are treated in person.

 

[tbonez]

So which is there more of?

1) Foreigners who hate america, or

2) Americans who hate other americans?

My take on it?

Almost half of American hate the other half of Americans that hate them back. Is that vague enough?

In the developed world people may 'dislike' Americans quite often...but hate them? No.

Places where American foreign and economic policy has had brutal consequences? Maybe a few more willing to strap on the TNT and go looking for some of uncle Sam's family.

Personally I really like Americans, there political climate, not so much. This "for us or against us" or "like it or leave it" stuff turns me off. BTW that applies to Democrats & Republicans equally.

I see too much flag waving and I feel like I want to ralph. Must be the motion sickness thing.

 

[tbonez]

Another thing:

Last year I wrote a major paper on the recent trends in political division in the US based on print media language...Basically covering the last 20 years. Let's just say the thin veneer of civility has been totally burned away. There was a time when most republicans and democrats could actually respectfully disagree. It seems to have been more a long term slide into the gutter rather than a sudden shift. Now America has personalities like Ann Coulter who think every disagreement should end in an insult slinging (ad hominem) assassination attempt. Lord, I love that woman! Ok, not so much.

BTW, did you know that US has been at a constant state of war since they arrived (late) to WWII? War on Communism (externally and internally...McCarthy hearings,) war on drugs, war on terror... Americans of the last 50+ years have never known 'peace time'. Some won't want to hear this but they have yet to win any of those wars. Weird eh?

PS Before you claim america won the war on communism ask yourself this: How many people lived under communism after WWII? How many people do today?

PPS Yea, I know...Wrong "there" above. Off to Guantanamo Bay with me then!

 

[Yves]

As mentioned before, it´s important to make the distinction between the American people and the role of specific administrations and agencies. A key agency in terms of US international public image is the CIA.

The CIA has been effective in terms of protection of US interest internationally but a few of those actions have affected the US image at the local level. Some violations of human rights have been committed with the passive (or active) collaboration of US officials. The involvement of the CIA in South America (Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, etc) in the 70s (supporting right-wing military dictatorships) is a situation I´m familiar with. Some of those actions have generated local distrust against the American government and policies (but not against the American people).

 

[theFallenGod]

ok just to put in my 2 cents.. I am an ex pat here in The Great White North. I left the states because I felt like things were going out of control. The biggest problem I see with Americans is their unwillingness to accept responsibility for any of their own actions. From the president on down to Joe Average. The president has never ever conceded that invading Iraq was a mistake that everyone in the rest of the world knows it was and you have people suing fast food chains for making them fat. Thats the America I see and loathe. The America I escaped from. You have religious nuts decrying gay marriage as a crime against humanity while they drive around in their road hog of an SUV and destroy the ecosystem. You have social commentators claiming "Fair and Balanced" reporting while never giving the other side a chance to argue their point. You have a war in a country that yes was suffering under a totaltarian regime while hundreds of other countries suffer because they lack oil to obtain. You have a country crying out for certain countries to disarm an nuclear weapons they may be devoloping while supporting another country that6 illegally possesses nukes.
I could go on and on and its not like this country doesnt have its own fair share of problems but America is filled with the self righteous and ignorant. They are so plentiful that the intelligent ones are muffled or forced to flee.

 

[bedbugy]

i love the american dollar so much i wish i had a sack full

 

[bma1983]

ok just to put in my 2 cents.. I am an ex pat here in The Great White North... The biggest problem I see with Americans is their unwillingness to accept responsibility for any of their own actions.

Does that include you, or did you renounce your citizenship?

 

[Pegasus69]

... its not like this country doesnt have its own fair share of problems but America is filled with the self righteous and ignorant. They are so plentiful that the intelligent ones are muffled or forced to flee.

I have to say that I disagree with this due to one simple belief, if you do not try to fix the issues that are wrong, then you are as much a part of the problem as those you claim cause all the problems. If you are one of the "intelligent ones" who was muffled or forced to flee you allowed yourself to be muffled or you decided to leave because it was "just too hard" to stay and fight for what this country should be doing. I do find it rather ironic that you claim that everyone, right on down to joe blow, don't take responsibility for thier actions and yet you decide to flee rather than be a part of the solution. Isn't that shirking responsibility?

 

[Tengilethos]

I do not hate the USA.
I think that some things you (or your government) does is wrong,
but I think the same of my own government.
And I surely do not understand things like death penalty for example,
but nevertheless you are the model of democracy for the rest of the world
(and rigthly so).
So to me you are a natural ally in this world, and I am really grateful that
you do not isolate yourself from the problems of this world like you did before.

 

[lukylok]

They're more unbiased than the Guardian or Daily Mail--or Le Figaro or the Toronto Red Star.

The only problem is that in the US you have not access to different views. All your media sources protect the image of the "good american" because they are american. You only have access to US media and not to the world's. So it's difficult for you to know what the rest of the world think. And the rest of the world is abour 85% of the world's population....
That combined with a very limited knowledge of other languages, contributes to a certain "brainwashing".
If you think the Figaro, the Guardian and the Toronto Red Star are biaised, is it not because they express an opinion which is not yours ?????

 

[tbonez]

Does that include you, or did you renounce your citizenship?

I think he pretty much just did.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is no formal way to "renounce" your citizenship.

Why not just brand him a traitor and send him to Cuba? Oh, that's right...One of your govenors called Canada "the Cuba of the North".

 

[tbonez]

And the rest of the world is abour 85% of the world's population....

I think it's closer to 95% than 85%.

They do consume close to half of the world's non-renewable resources though.

I still luv 'em though.

What gay guy doesn't love a hummer!

 

[jackoroe]

I don't much care what other countries think about us or our government. Our government is voted on by the American people to serve us. Not a government to please foriegn powers. Bush and every other politician, like them or not was voted into office. Unlike some places in the world, that don't have elections.

I've travelled abroad, some. I've met and liked most everybody I had the pleasure to meet. I treat them as I'd like to be treated. I was always respectful that I was visiting their country and to be polite.

The bottom line is that people are very much the same everywhere in this great world of ours. How about we concentrate on what we share in common and less on what we disagree on?

 

[pjlikesporn]

I've encountered those people abroad. The arrogant types you see in the movies. I usually pull them aside and remind them they're representing our country and I don't approve the manner in which they're doing it.

I usually tell them the same thing, but I follow it up by shooting at them with my gun (the Second Amendment allows me to carry it worldwide).

 

[james1200]

I don't much care what other countries think about us or our government. Our government is voted on by the American people to serve us. Not a government to please foriegn powers. Bush and every other politician, like them or not was voted into office. Unlike some places in the world, that don't have elections.

uh...what do elections have to do with anything? hitler was elected into office in 1933 by the german people as well...

 

[dte]

And whilst americans are allowed to criticise their own country any non-american criticising anything american is flamed.

Although there are a limited number of people who strongly dislike america, americans are paranoid that every other foreigner also hates them and will bite first and think later.

... plus the fact that many Americans know very little about the rest of the world and thinks that the world revolves around them.