Discussion: Links to Gruesome War Pics

[snapcat]

Earlier today a new poster in CE&P posted in the "It's Unacceptable to Think" thread a link to a site that contains the actual beheading and mutilation of two US Servicemen. The video also depicts the mutilation and castration of these two US Servicemen, Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker.

A longtime contributer in CE&P reported the post and the Mod on duty split that post off into the mod forum pending review. I might add that the person reporting the post has always exhibited remarkable judgement, as has the moderator.

Having reviewed what has happened I am not going to move that post back into open forum.

Now, for some reason that might harken the calls of censorship back to the forefront. But for what it's worth here are my thoughts.

We have allowed actual links to pics depicting the horrors of war many time. As long as the link accurately includes a disclaimer of what the person will find at the end of the link we have allowed it.

In the case of this post, the only disclaimer given was "warning: very graphic" in bold red letters. I don't feel that is ample enough disclaimer for the video that was linked to. In other words, while there was a disclaimer, it wasn't strong enough. And I don't even know that any sort of disclaimer would have been enough.

I am sure that the various beheadings of Americans and other Internationals that have occurred in Iraq and other countries are all available for download on many websites. I'm not interested in adding JUB to that list.

In the case of these two US Servicemen, the media widely reported the horror that occurred to these men. The news reports were rather descriptive in how the bodies were mutilated and then booby trapped. You don't have to see the actual video to know what happened.

If being a moderator means using your best judgement on occasion, then this is when I just have to pull the plug on this video. And if that is censorship then so be it, hand me the bumper sticker, then.

However, I do feel it necessary to fully disclose our actions, and this thread is meant for that discussion.

Feel free to share your comments, and feel free to be candid in your remarks. Censorship should never be taken lightly, and some of you may believe that is what we are doing here.

I'll continue to allow links to pics that show the horrors of war provided an accurate disclaimer is attached. I will not allow videos from various terrorist groups in CE&P. Perhaps other sites may be more welcoming, but the door mat has been taken indoors here as far as I'm concerned.

I want to add that I am apalled that someone here would even post something like that. Despicable does not even begin to sum up my feelings as far as that post goes. The poster was relatively new, so I'm not going to pursue any further action. But now that I'm on record here with my thoughts I will followup with a severe warning should something like this reoccur.

Again, I welcome your thoughts.

 

[Corny]

in my opinion one of the good things about the net in fact *is* that is nearly not controllable. even in china, people always have new ways of getting across goverment barriers.
war is cruel, war is dirty and gruesome. we hear about it. but you easy forget about it. those are images the media doesn't show. and the government doesn't want you to see. so in my eyes it is important that you can see them - if you want to (so add warnings).

 

[iman]

Good call, Snapcat.

 

[opinterph]

Perhaps it would be appropriate to add a public poll to this discussion; however, I suspect it would prove that images of violence and gore are objectionable to most users. The video depicts an outrageous activity which involves the exploitation of a victim. In that regard it is quite similar to child pornography. I don’t think we need to see it, in order to comprehend that it is wrong.

In my opinion, there is no legitimate reason to add such materials to the JUB community and there is no censorship involved in their removal – it is frankly a matter of dignity and acting responsibly.

If it is [for some reason] imperative to illustrate the nature of violence and gore beyond what is possible through written description, perhaps the poster can offer a general suggestion informing readers how to proactively search for the material on their own. I can’t imagine why anyone would need to see such horrific images, outside of the jury box, but maybe some people have morbid curiosity or an incessant need for visual proof.

I have seen lots of mangled bodies in real life, including persons in a desperate struggle to remain alive, as well as those that did not survive. Many of the injuries were the result of acts of intentional violence inflicted by another person. Although violence is most often associated with physical acts, it can also be psychological. In that respect, there is absolutely no reason to dignify acts of brutality by promoting their distribution. We should already be cognizant of the fact that we are all quite fragile creatures. Respecting one another is an important part of being fully human and most assuredly involves learning to exercise discretion.

I have never viewed any of these “gruesome” online images and have no desire to do so. My thanks to whoever reported the post in question and a special gratitude to snapcat for exercising appropriate intervention.

 

[Eagle653]

Snapcat, I appreciate and agree with your pulling this. Some things are just beyond the boundaries of decency.

 

[levenshulme31]

I am always torn on this issue. While I have no wish to watch videos of torture and beheadings, I find the media's sanitisation of war equally disturbing. Whether you support the war or not, I beileve the media should more accurately depict the horror of what is being done in our name and that which our soldiers are being asked to fight against.

One of the factors which helped bring the Vietnam war to an end was the distaste of the American public for what was seen on TV screens. Since then, the powers that be have endeavoured to prevent the true picture of war from being made public. Far easier to maintain public support when the news shows the explosions but not the body parts left behind. In fact I believe it may be the case that Western media's distaste for graphic images could ultimately assist the 'enemy'. The mainstream media in Asia does not shy away from showing the horrors of war, and given that the overwhelming number of casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan have been on 'their' side, you have a population being constantly exposed to images of their people being killed and maimed by America and its allies. This can only fuel the anti-American anger of those watching, many of whom may be inspired to join the fight against the West. Perhaps if the Western media showed the results of suicide bomb attacks, beheadings and roadside bombs, backing for the fight might actually increase.

 

[jackoroe]

Let's go back to the discussion about the US servicemen coming home in caskets. If I recall correctly, many here supported that these photos be shown. I'm somewhat torn in that I would like to preserve the dignity of those who fought and died for our country and the public right to know. We also had a similar discussion as it related to Katrina' aftermath. There were plenty of pictures of the dead during those days. Snaps, I seem to recall your having posted some of them, if I'm not mistaken. But there was a point to be made of it.

I'm equally torn over the footage of actual beheadings and other atrocities being committed by these vermin who would hide behind one of the world's great religions. I believe that this footage would allow us to see the evil that we are up against in an unmistakably graphic manner. Yes, there are those who would enjoy it for other less honorable purposes. And so what of it? Let them.

I have seen my share of horrible things over the years. I've been somewhat desensitized, I suppose. But we are all adults here, on JUB. So long as it is appropriately labeled, and I do believe that to have been the case, let the viewer make his own choice.

Just my two cents.

 

[TriBi]

Having access to the reported post in question, I can confirm that the pictures were extremely graphic. Having a very strong stomach, I did click on the video to see if it would load - but it appears that, by that time, photobucket had (presumably responding to complaints) taken it down.

FYI - the opinion I posted in the Mod Forum on this is copied (in italics) below:

I feel that stuff which is unpalatable should "generally" be allowed to remain, providing the warning is sufficiently specific and bold in it's nature.

In this case - I don't believe the warning is anywhere near adequate - I think it would need to exactly detail the content, as well as issuing an unmissable warning in very large red letters.

That said, in this particular instance, given the nature of this forum...and the nationality and feelings of a large number of it's participants - I have no real objection to letting it languish in oblivion.

That may well be a form of "censorship" - but it it strikes me that putting it back in the public domain is likely to generate more rancour and hot headed argument than I am likely to want to have to deal with.

As you will see - my opinion pretty much exactly aligns with Snaps on this one (which is why I decided to copy it here) - tho' as I admit, I was partly motivated by not wanting to have to deal with the potential drama arising from this!.

Good idea by Snaps to put it up for open discussion too BTW.

 

[snapcat]

I appreciate all the comments and feedback that have been given.

As I mentioned earlier, we will allow links to pics showing the horrors of war - we most recently had an example of that over the summer in one of the threads about Lebanon.

I'm not inclined to allow videos from terrorists, nor am I inclined to enable terrorists in any way. Certainly those people who do wish to view such material can readily find it in any google search.

I think most of us never imagined this would come up here in CE&P. And now that it has I think it important to include as many of you in the decision-making.

 

[MadeUpName27]

Good call, Snapcat!


As for why such inappropriate, unrelated and grotesque footage was linked to a thread about George "Brain-dead" Bush's "It's Unacceptable To Think" rant -

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows..."
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