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Dissecting the campaigns and Clinton freefall compiled by ABC news

SixPackInBoxers

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Dissecting the campaigns compiled by ABC news:

THE NOTE: Inevitability Equals Vulnerability for Clinton

Obama Shines at Iowa Dinner, While Clinton Steps Off Pace

By RICK KLEIN with NANCY FLORES
Nov. 12, 2007

Nowhere in the Penn/Wolfson/Solis Doyle textbook does the following equation appear: Inevitability = Vulnerability.

But the microtargeting and triangulating in the Democratic race these days takes aim at the aura of invincibility surrounding Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y. And the only thing that looks inevitable now is that a race is on for the Democratic nomination.

It's enough to make the Clinton campaign feel the walls are closing in -- or maybe that the stage is falling down.

To the careful answers, the closed-off access, and the slash-and-burn rapid response team, we add this damaging element: Questioners as plants (gasp!). Two incidents of staffers coaching "real people" have emerged publicly, and you know the drill from here: The Clinton campaign admitted that it happened, said the senator didn't know it was happening, and promises that it won't happen again, ABC's Eloise Harper reports. (Anyone think they really did it only twice?)

It is easier to have a conversation with voters when your campaign has a pretty good idea of what they're interested in before you step in the room. But tradition trumps all in the Iowa caucuses (and New Hampshire primaries), and caucus-goers don't like to feel played.

Former senator John Edwards, D-N.C., didn't need prompting: "What George Bush does is plant questions and exclude people from events, and I don't think that's what Democrats want to see in Iowa," Edwards said yesterday, per the Des Moines Register's Tony Leys.

Per The Nation's Ari Melber: "The reports of a planting pattern come at a tough time for Clinton, who was widely criticized for being evasive during the last presidential debate. Faking questions is a particularly serious charge in Iowa, where caucus-goers are notoriously proud of their unique democratic process."

It's grist for the liberal blogosphere, who see shades of Bush "town hall meetings" and fake FEMA news conferences.

And it feeds the arguments of Clinton's top rivals, just as the race is giving them the opening they need. ("Turn up the heat," Clinton rallied on Saturday night. Advice taken.)

"The same old Washington textbook campaigns just won't do it in this election," Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said at Saturday's Jefferson Jackson Dinner in Des Moines, Dan Balz and Shailagh Murray report in The Washington Post. "That's why not answering questions because we're afraid our answers won't be popular just won't do it."

The weekend belonged to Obama, from the J-J through "Meet the Press." "The Obama campaign owned the theatrics," David Chalian writes in the ABC write-up of Saturday night's dinner. "Obama supporters silently waved their O-shaped symbols of hope back and forth welcoming their competition to the stage. Obama's entrance came courtesy of the voice of the Chicago Bulls introducing the candidate onto the stage at which time his supporters were cued to turn on their light sticks which carried the names of each of Iowa's 99 counties."

"Barack Obama's speech at tonight's Jefferson-Jackson dinner in Iowa took him back to the roots of his stardom," writes the New Republic's Michael Crowley.

Only one candidate could wow David Yepsen, and that one was Barack Obama. "The passion he showed should help him close the gap on Hillary Clinton by tipping some undecided caucus-goers his way," Yepsen writes in his Des Moines Register blog. "His oratory was moving and he successfully contrasted himself with the others -- especially Clinton -- without being snide or nasty about it."

It's a nice little wave for Obama -- but now his challenge is to keep the momentum going in these two weeks before Turkey Day helps lull us into political torpor.

And another element to add to Clinton's tough storyline: the incredible shrinking New Hampshire lead. Her lead is sliced down to just 11 points in the new Marist poll, and 9 in the University of New Hampshire/Boston Globe poll.

"The poll shows that Clinton's support has dropped as Obama and Edwards have stepped up their criticism of her positions and her forthrightness -- attacks that have escalated since the presidential debate late last month, where they accused her of equivocating on illegal immigration and other issues," The Boston Globe's Scott Helman writes.

"Voters polled believe Clinton is less 'trustworthy' than Obama -- 19 percent said she was the most trustworthy candidate, compared with 26 percent who said Obama was," Helman continues. "Only half of those who said they would vote for Clinton listed her as the most trustworthy."

Asks the New York Daily News' Michael McAuliff: "Where did Hillary Clinton's mojo go? That's what her campaign has to be asking after a rough two weeks. And more importantly, they have to be wondering how to recapture that fading aura of an unstoppable juggernaut."

Edwards isn't moving much in the polls these days. (Was that really Joe Trippi leading Obama staffers in bellowing their new chants at the bar of the Hotel Fort Des Moines Saturday night? And if John Mellencamp doesn't draw Edwards-style Democrats -- Mr. "Small Town" himself -- what kind of concert could Edwards avoid the boos at?)

Newsweek's Richard Wolffe finds Edwards losing key supporters in Iowa. Four county chairs tapped by the Edwards campaign have defected, in addition to a few other prominent Iowans. "Four years ago, news of defections hurt Dick Gephardt over the summer and Howard Dean just before caucus night," Wolffe reminds us.

Former senator John Edwards, D-N.C., didn't need prompting: "What George Bush does is plant questions and exclude people from events, and I don't think that's what Democrats want to see in Iowa," Edwards said yesterday, per the Des Moines Register's Tony Leys.

Per The Nation's Ari Melber: "The reports of a planting pattern come at a tough time for Clinton, who was widely criticized for being evasive during the last presidential debate. Faking questions is a particularly serious charge in Iowa, where caucus-goers are notoriously proud of their unique democratic process."

It's grist for the liberal blogosphere, who see shades of Bush "town hall meetings" and fake FEMA news conferences.

And it feeds the arguments of Clinton's top rivals, just as the race is giving them the opening they need. ("Turn up the heat," Clinton rallied on Saturday night. Advice taken.)

"The same old Washington textbook campaigns just won't do it in this election," Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said at Saturday's Jefferson Jackson Dinner in Des Moines, Dan Balz and Shailagh Murray report in The Washington Post. "That's why not answering questions because we're afraid our answers won't be popular just won't do it."

The weekend belonged to Obama, from the J-J through "Meet the Press." "The Obama campaign owned the theatrics," David Chalian writes in the ABC write-up of Saturday night's dinner. "Obama supporters silently waved their O-shaped symbols of hope back and forth welcoming their competition to the stage. Obama's entrance came courtesy of the voice of the Chicago Bulls introducing the candidate onto the stage at which time his supporters were cued to turn on their light sticks which carried the names of each of Iowa's 99 counties."

"Barack Obama's speech at tonight's Jefferson-Jackson dinner in Iowa took him back to the roots of his stardom," writes the New Republic's Michael Crowley.

Only one candidate could wow David Yepsen, and that one was Barack Obama. "The passion he showed should help him close the gap on Hillary Clinton by tipping some undecided caucus-goers his way," Yepsen writes in his Des Moines Register blog. "His oratory was moving and he successfully contrasted himself with the others -- especially Clinton -- without being snide or nasty about it."

It's a nice little wave for Obama -- but now his challenge is to keep the momentum going in these two weeks before Turkey Day helps lull us into political torpor.

And another element to add to Clinton's tough storyline: the incredible shrinking New Hampshire lead. Her lead is sliced down to just 11 points in the new Marist poll, and 9 in the University of New Hampshire/Boston Globe poll.

"The poll shows that Clinton's support has dropped as Obama and Edwards have stepped up their criticism of her positions and her forthrightness -- attacks that have escalated since the presidential debate late last month, where they accused her of equivocating on illegal immigration and other issues," The Boston Globe's Scott Helman writes.

"Voters polled believe Clinton is less 'trustworthy' than Obama -- 19 percent said she was the most trustworthy candidate, compared with 26 percent who said Obama was," Helman continues. "Only half of those who said they would vote for Clinton listed her as the most trustworthy."

Asks the New York Daily News' Michael McAuliff: "Where did Hillary Clinton's mojo go? That's what her campaign has to be asking after a rough two weeks. And more importantly, they have to be wondering how to recapture that fading aura of an unstoppable juggernaut."

Edwards isn't moving much in the polls these days. (Was that really Joe Trippi leading Obama staffers in bellowing their new chants at the bar of the Hotel Fort Des Moines Saturday night? And if John Mellencamp doesn't draw Edwards-style Democrats -- Mr. "Small Town" himself -- what kind of concert could Edwards avoid the boos at?)

Newsweek's Richard Wolffe finds Edwards losing key supporters in Iowa. Four county chairs tapped by the Edwards campaign have defected, in addition to a few other prominent Iowans. "Four years ago, news of defections hurt Dick Gephardt over the summer and Howard Dean just before caucus night," Wolffe reminds us.

Then there's the Fred fade. Former senator Fred Thompson, R-Tenn., isn't even in the top five (!) in the new New Hampshire polls, and new Florida numbers have him dropping fast. "Fred Thompson is proving to be nowhere near the force many had expected when he entered the race in September," Adam C. Smith writes for the St. Petersburg Times. "The poll showed him in fifth place with 8 percent support, behind former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, with 9 percent, McCain with 12 percent, Mitt Romney with 19 percent and Giuliani with 36 percent in the state he declares a must-win."

He's getting more animated on the trail, but everyone has their limits. "If you're expecting somebody to leap off the stage and start singing show tunes, you're not going to get that," campaign adviser Rich Galen tells the Los Angeles Times' Michael Finnegan, mercifully.

Also in the news: Enjoy them while they last, since this could be the last Norman Hsu story you read that has anything interesting in it at all. A four-person (with two additional contributors) Wall Street Journal team dissects the rise and fall of Hillary Clinton's least-favorite "bundler." "Politics was a world where his schmoozing and fund-raising talents were powerful currency," the Journal reporters write. "He befriended Mrs. Clinton and other Democrats, decorating his SoHo loft with their photos. He displayed a saxophone autographed by former President Bill Clinton, bought for $26,000 at a Red Cross benefit. He sported a chocolate-brown leather bomber jacket with the presidential seal."

Clinton gets some more gender card advice: "In this case, pandering to female voters is a big mistake. The sisterhood is famously fickle. Besides, in order to win, Clinton must grow her vote," writes Boston Globe columnist Joan Vennochi. "Clinton should get out of that kitchen, ASAP. There aren't enough women in it to elect her president of the United States."

If Obama's challenge is to keep the momentum going, does it matter if some think he's already letting it drain away? Salon.com's Walter Shapiro saw Obama finding his voice Saturday night -- only to begin to lose it Sunday morning. "The fiery Obama of Saturday night had been replaced on Sunday morning by a replicant, a tepid candidate mostly concerned with avoiding mistakes rather than winning converts," Shapiro writes. "If Obama really wants to be the one who knocks Hillary off her pedestal, he should remember that statues rarely topple without a hard push."

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., is playing to his strength, with an op-ed today in the Baltimore Sun outlining his plans for Pakistan.

Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., told ABC's George Stephanopoulos on "This Week" Sunday that a recession is looking likely. "It's certainly pointing in that direction," Dodd said. And he had this to say on reports of the Clinton camp planting questions: "The idea that this is a contrived setting, been orchestrated and set up ahead of time, I think would hurt you here."

For as static as the Democratic field seems, the Republican side is proving impossible to narrow down. Bloomberg's Heidi Przybyla looks at former governor Mike Huckabee's, R-Ark., ability to scramble Iowa. "Though he's a Scripture-quoting champion of social conservatives, his populist economics may limit his ability to broaden his support among Republican constituencies," she writes. "The result is a kind of populist fusion -- he's also anti- abortion, pro-gun and a foe of gay marriage -- that has catapulted Huckabee to the first tier of Republicans in Iowa."

As for Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, "the Internet has harnessed him," Katharine Q. Seelye and Leslie Wayne write in the Sunday New York Times. "Mr. Paul's once-solo quest has taken on a life of its own. It is evolving from a figment of cyberspace into a traditional campaign, with yard signs, direct mail and old-fashioned rallies."

And AP's Ron Fournier catches up with Iowa waitress Anita Esterday after the media sensation blew through town. "When I got home, there were 60 messages on my machine," Esterday says. "Are you guys nuts? . . . There's a war going on and the price of oil is going crazy. Look at all the toys being recalled right now. Just look at the news! Isn't there something else you can be writing about?"

The kicker:

"If it were Bartholomew, that would be a different story." -- Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom, explaining why the campaign is having fun with the name "Mitt."

"The views of my mothers are not necessarily the views of mine." -- McCain, jumping in on "Hardball" after his 95-year-old mother said of Romney: "He's a Mormon and the Mormons of Salt Lake City had caused that scandal. And to clean that up, again, it's not a subject."

"Are we nuts thinking Hillary Clinton could be president of this country? Honest to God, just stand back and think about it." -- Joel Surnow, executive producer of "24." He's leaning toward Rudy.

Bookmark The Note at http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=3105288&page=1
 
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

National Poll

2cc1f5e371e526745c003d1a68b4cc2f.jpg


Admittedly it is getting tighter (HRC 10% lead) in NH but Iowa has been close for weeks.
 
National poll:
AUSTopDems600.png


Iowa:
AIATopDems600.png


New Hampshire:
ANHTopDems600.png


I'm not a statistician, but I fail to see a "free fall" in any of the graphs above for Senator Clinton.
 
Admittedly it is getting tighter (HRC 10% lead) in NH but Iowa has been close for weeks.

Yes Hillary seems to be in free fall in NH spectacularly dropping there, halving her lead, but of course ABC are covering the wider picture with the early caucuses and primaries, which have always had an effect on who is chosen as the nominee, and not some notional soft national polls, in states where the candidates are not campaigning and which have little relevance to the nominating process at this stage.

Inevitable Hillary does not look so inevitable now with her early primary numbers looking less good by the day. Is she toast? Too soon to tell, but it isn't looking good for her as she steadily loses ground where it counts.

The hare and the tortoise seem to come to mind.
 
Even taking into account the hyperbole used on JUB - "freefall" is a stretch...

Carry on
 
Clinton Support Waning in New Hampshire While Obama, Edwards, and Richardson Growing

11/12/07

There have been three polls this month for the state of New Hampshire (view) and although we do not put stock in any one poll -- we do however pay attention when we see a trend across many different pollsters.

Each month, we average all of the polls taken for a given state and give the candidate a score on their candidate page (Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Richardson), here is how it looks for New Hampshire.
Pollster Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July Aug Sep Oct Nov
Hillary Clinton 19.0 32.3 32.0 33.0 28.3 35.9 32.7 37.0 38.6 41.0 34.0
Barack Obama 23.0 22.3 21.5 18.5 21.7 20.6 25.0 17.0 19.8 21.8 24.0
John Edwards 19.0 14.8 20.5 24.5 14.7 13.1 11.8 14.0 12.4 12.5 15.0
Bill Richardson 1.0 2.0 3.0 2.5 9.0 8.7 9.2 7.0 8.0 6.5 8.0

John Edwards is currently at his highest level of support in New Hampshire since April. The same could be said of Barack Obama but for him he is at his July levels. Hillary Clinton's support has dropped to what she had around July.

Clinton's support has dropped 7% in the state since last month while Obama has gained 2.2%, Edwards gained 2.5%, and Richardson another 1.5% for a total of 6.2%. So Clinton's drop in support is being spread out over the next top three candidates of Obama, Edwards, and Richardson.

Clinton has held a 20% advantage in New Hampshire the past 3 months to only see it dwindle another 10% against Obama. And even if she was to lose another 7%, it would only be a dead heat between Obama and herself if that loss of support splits off to support Obama, Edwards, and Richardson in exactly the same proportions mentioned above. Basically, this suggests that in order for Clinton to be upset and beat in this state, the voters need to coalesce behind the second candidate and who the voters of New Hampshire pick may depend greatly on the results of the Iowa caucus.

According to the latest Iowa poll, according to Caucus rules, there was a dead heat between Clinton, Obama, and Edwards in the latest Iowa poll.

This is from authoritive and non partisan site that follows the election polls.

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/200...pport-waning-in-new-hampshire-november07.html
 
^^All that shows is that Senator Clinton has gone from 19% to 34% in New Hampshire since January, for a gain of 15%. That doesn't sound like a free fall.

Meanwhile, Obama has gone from 23% to 24% over the same period of time, which results in no statistically significant change.
 
^^All that shows is that Senator Clinton has gone from 19% to 34% in New Hampshire since January, for a gain of 15%. That doesn't sound like a free fall.

Half truth post as usual. Clinton's 10% drop is a very significant statistical drop - or a real free fall. Your campaign's pollsters will tell you that that spells BIG trouble. Very few campaigns in history have had this sort of drop over such a short period of time.
 
^^All that shows is that Senator Clinton has gone from 19% to 34% in New Hampshire since January, for a gain of 15%. That doesn't sound like a free fall.

In other words just to cut through your double speak and spin, Clinton has gone from last October's 20% lead over Obama to her this months free fall of 10%. An astonishing downward collapse by any measures.
 
Or to put it another way, Clinton has gone from October's 20% lead over Obama to her eroding lead of 10% in one month (see above). An astonishing 50% drop in one month. A free fall downward collapse that is almost unprecedented.

This is an almost unheard of statistical erosion of support in one month since polling began, considering these polling figures are the average of the public polling results of all the monthly polling organisations covering the New Hampshire primary – and not a single poll.
 
Or inconvenient truth?

I know its tough watching your gal dropping like a stone. Watching your sweetheart in free fall must be an upsetting sight.

I do commiserate old thing.
 
Or inconvenient truth?

I know its tough watching your gal dropping like a stone. Watching your sweetheart in free fall must be an upsetting sight.

I do commiserate old thing.

Brush up on your statistics, Sixpack. "Outliers" in any data series need to be considered as nothing more than that until further data points are added to the series. Especially when you're looking at just one source. Whether October was the outlier or November, who knows. We'll know better when more sampling is done.

And you have the gall to accuse Clinton supporters of "spin." You're doing a lot of extrapolating with no foundation.
 
^ Such Anger and Irrational Hatred! Why, you're beginning to sound more and more like Zig Zag Zell Miller with every post! Poor Zell, bolted to the floor of a sanitarium, his private parts and loins hosed down thrice daily as they change his nappy. Sad, so sad.

May the record show that once again, boxer is boxed-in and fails to provide requested data.

Now, now Alphie dear, don't get over excited. Isn't it time for your medication?

I didn't know that Zig Zag was in there with you. Thought that nickname just applied to your free falling girlfriend. All very confusing, I know, but rest easy, I am not your Zig Zag friend in there. It is just one of your Hillary Hallucinations and it will pass. Just ask the nurse.

Poor old RA may be joining you there any moment it seems.



:D
 
If his moniker is as daft as his "freefall" interpretation, I'm guessing SixPackInBoxers is actually BeerBellyInBriefs.
 
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