Distressed... who am I?

[Kulindahr]

This will prolly be meandering, 'cause my head is mixed up.

I don't know what it's connected to, if anything, but lately I've been feeling really upset about being attracted to other guys. I keep wondering how I got this way, and why it had to happen to me. I get pissed because I didn't have any choice about it, and then pissed at the world because so many people hate people like me/us even though we didn't have any choice in the matter.

I haven't been out even two years yet, and here I am back wanting God to change me, wanting to be "normal", and all that scene. I get tense over it, stressed, and it makes other stress worse, like:

Loneliness. I lost almost all my friends and most of my family when I came out, and have only made one, maybe two new friends since, and only my dad has come around (but doesn't want to hear about it) -- prolly thanks to my mom.

Finances. I don't dare try to have a social life around where I live, unless I want to risk a knife in the ribs, or having all those ribs broken very carefully and methodically. The closest place to have any kind of social life is almost two hours away (okay, I did it in seventy-eight minutes once when I needed to be at my fave gay bar now). On that road I get about 19 mpg, and gas out here has been over $3/gal like forever (and is now $3.52, headed for $3.57 by the end of the month), so by the time I get to the bar, I can't afford to be there. I keep thinking if I lived out there, I could go to the bar two nights a week instead of once every two weeks.

? There was a third thing, but I can't think of it now.


Anyway... is this a normal stage to go through? WTF do I do about/with it?

 

[M4P]

Hey Kul

I think what you're feeling right now is normal and something we've all felt at one time or another. I also wish to stress that you are normal - just the way you are

Economics play a big part in all of our lives. Having said that, is there any chance you could move in the next year or so to be closer to a community of gay men? It might change your outlook on things and you'd have the opportunity to meet more friends and possible partners

Hang in there buddy. Hold your head up high and be proud of who you are

Please stay in touch and let us know how you're doing. You're surrounded by friends here at JUB

 

[Eagle653]

Yeah, I think it's pretty normal to have periods when one really hates being gay, if only because it's "different" and sometimes inconvenient. I think it's even more common when coming out leads to ended relationships and hateful reactions, which you experienced.

Shaking your fist at the sky and feeling sad and depressed--as natural as that can be--isn't going to change your orientation, though. The only answer is to find a way to co-exist with it and love yourself as you are and not as you want to be.

On a more practical level, is there any way you can relocate to the place with your favorite bar, instead of the long commute? Or, at least make that a goal to work toward if it's not an immediate possibility? Sometimes, just relocating to a more friendly, accepting environment can make a world of difference. Being isolated in the boonies is not healthy at all, especially with no friends, let alone a lover.

If I recall correctly, you're in the Pacific Northwest. I know that Portland and Seattle are wonderful places for gays--especially Seattle. I don't know how realistic that is for you, but I do hope that you find a way to surrond yourself--or at least get closer to--a more "with it" group of people with whom you interact daily.

Good luck. I know this isn't easy--and hasn't been since you came out.

 

[voyager1994]

Just try to live life one day at a time. Remember, gay or not, things don't always turn out that way we expect for the most part, so my advice is just be whatever it is that allows you to express your self.

 

[Orlandude]

Kulindahr, the guys are right. This is a pretty normal stage you are going through. I have from time to time. Hell, I've even heard this from some of my STRAIGHT friends who think their lives are a crashing bore! Since budget does hamper our ability to do things at times, maybe you can make changing your location a new goal. Goals are things that happen, in time, not right away, so you don't have to stress over it. Instead, plan for it. Sometimes, even when you THINK you are going to do something, it changes your whole thought process! I would agree that you probably need to get out of the remote area and get closer in to a bigger city. Even the job prospects would be better!

Set new goals for yourself. Really think about the idea of moving. Maybe take a look at newspapers from the bigger cities and see what jobs are available, how much an apartment or housing would cost, etc...ACT like you are making preparations to change things. That's 50% of doing it!! Hope this helps.

 

[Kulindahr]

It helps. Even if my mind is still mangled, I can see that you guys have clear thoughts about it, which makes it seem possible.

 

[tmb1]

Hey man.

Sometimes when you are feeling bad about yourself and upset at feeling this attraction to other guys try to take yourself out of it. Most of the time we can tend to be better to others than we are to ourselves. Think of how you would talk to someone who was saying the things you are. I am sure you would try to convince them that they are normal and loved and that it is okay. Try to take this for yourself. Love yourself as you would love another person going through the same thing. It will get better even with these bumps in the road...you are going through alot of things that many people go through in their teen years so be good to yourself, give yourself huge credit for coming out and know that if you work towards it things will get better.

As for the finances and living situation. Maybe you could get a second job and have a goal to save enough money to move to a bigger city. From what I can tell there are many good people in the Portland and Seattle area that are jubbers. You never know, maybe you could become friends with some of these people(I am in Seattle by the way) and they could help with advice, knowing of any jobs or even helping with finding a place. Just some ideas.

YOu are awesome dude, give yourself some credit and give your soul a big hug. It takes alot to come out in your situation. Keep striving to go from there and things will get better. Even though coming out is a big step there is still life now to live and get through and you are learning a new life from the very beginning. Keep asking and talking about it and you will find answers.

Peace.
Todd

 

[andysayshi]

Hey Kulindahr, ditto what these guys have said already - coming out is a long and crazy process. There will be good weeks and bad, happy and sad. You will curse God for making you this way, and thank God for letting you realize and discover who you are.

I know from experience that coming out in a small community can be tough. You'll be amazed a few years from now how many people come to terms with it and welcome you back into their lives. And then it will be your decision to accept them, not theirs.

The dark days are tough, but I know from your many posts that you're a strong, intelligent guy - you obviously have so much to offer as a friend, a neighbour, a partner. The tough times you've been through, and the fact you've climbed up to where you are now from some pretty rough places, prove to me your a gutsy guy and a fighter. The same strength that helped you then will help you find your feet in other ways if you let it.

Hopefully your friends here will help you realise you are worthy and deserving of friends everywhere - you just have to go and find them. And you have to open the door when they knock.

Good luck, mate. You're amongst friends here - there's shoulders for leaning any time you need 'em.

 

[AaronG]

Kulindahr,
I've read your posts with admiration for a long time now. You always have something caring and helpful to say when others need to hear it. Even in your distress, you give voice to the fundamental fears that so many guys here are dealing with (myself included). I hope you can take to heart the kind words from your friends here. I can only imagine what you must be going through, but the fact that you keep going speaks volumes. Thanks for sharing yourself with us, and I wish you nothing but peace and happiness.
Aaron

 

[hanshansen]

Hi Kulindahr,

it's terrible that virtually all the people in your life abandoned you like this. Essentially, you have had to go through my worst nightmare. The fear of that kind of alienation was so bad that it made me avoid getting close to people and totally dissociate myself from my own feelings for about ten years.

Why was it so totally unacceptable for so many people - not strangers, but people who knew you - when you told them you were into guys? Religious reasons?

The one good thing about all this is that it's behind you, you clearly know what the situation is in your town, and whatever you do now, you don't have a lot to lose. You must have been somehow unhappy with things before you came out, or you wouldn't have done it. And if you hadn't done it, you would still be living on very thin ice, and the pain you have gone through could have hit you much further down the track. So one can't say that it was a bad decision.

I don't know as much about your situation as the other guys here. You're in some kind of a hole, and I think I've got some experience (10 years' worth) of what that's like. This is what I've done about it. Suppose you have some kind of long-term goals (in my case: I want to know what I want out of my career, I want to be able to take on positions of leadership, I want a relationship of some kind). But given the person I am today, I can't really imagine myself doing any of those things and I have no idea of how to get there (in the sense: I do this, then I do this, then I do this, then I've reached my goal). From that point of view, one can only sit and throw up one's hands in despair. On the other hand, I do know some important obstacles that are preventing me from achieving what I want out of life. A few months ago, I finally accepted that the elephant in the room, the thing preventing me from making progress in all sorts of directions, was my social phobia, and that I had no chance of getting over that without making the effort to find out what other people are really like and without confronting my sexuality. So I held my nose and forced myself to post to the JUB, to 'come out' to someone from the JUB and talk about my issues with him, to start accepting invitations to parties and other social events, to talk to some people at a gay social group in my city, to go to a gay support group. At the moment I'm moving out of my expensive and lonely and comfortable apartment and looking to move in with roommates.

That's a lot of things to have done in a few months, and I'm already finding it hard to connect with the person I was a year ago. Some things that were unimaginable then seem possible now. At some stage (I hope) this will all become more familiar and I will move on to the next obstacle. And eventually I might find myself being able to do what I really want to do. I still don't know what that will be like, but at least I have a greater chance of doing that now.

Do I think it's fair that I have to go through all this dislocation at 28, when everyone around me is consolidating their lives, buying a house, getting married, having kids? Am I happy about it? No, but I see no improvement in my life, long-term, if I don't do it now. And I've already seen big payoffs in terms of life being less scary and more interesting.

As others have said, one step you might consider taking now is moving out of a place where people are likely to treat you like shit. There are places that are not like that - I live in one, though I didn't know it! What's preventing you from moving? What can you do about that?

 

[Kulindahr]

Hey man.

Sometimes when you are feeling bad about yourself and upset at feeling this attraction to other guys try to take yourself out of it. Most of the time we can tend to be better to others than we are to ourselves. Think of how you would talk to someone who was saying the things you are. I am sure you would try to convince them that they are normal and loved and that it is okay. Try to take this for yourself. Love yourself as you would love another person going through the same thing. It will get better even with these bumps in the road...you are going through alot of things that many people go through in their teen years so be good to yourself, give yourself huge credit for coming out and know that if you work towards it things will get better.

I couldn't even think of what I'd tell someone in my situation. I know; unusual for Kulindahr to be without a response. But I am so confused... it's hard to even get a handle on a concept to start thinking about.
Knowing most people go through this two decades or more earlier in their lives is part of what's depressing. The dreams that poured into me when I got stable after coming out are mostly things I'll never have, and that gets me crying, "Why did all that shit have to happen to me?", the stuff from growing up.

As for the finances and living situation. Maybe you could get a second job and have a goal to save enough money to move to a bigger city. From what I can tell there are many good people in the Portland and Seattle area that are jubbers. You never know, maybe you could become friends with some of these people(I am in Seattle by the way) and they could help with advice, knowing of any jobs or even helping with finding a place. Just some ideas.

YOu are awesome dude, give yourself some credit and give your soul a big hug. It takes alot to come out in your situation. Keep striving to go from there and things will get better. Even though coming out is a big step there is still life now to live and get through and you are learning a new life from the very beginning. Keep asking and talking about it and you will find answers.

Peace.
Todd

OMG, I love that name! Two of the most awesome guys I've ever known were named Todd!
Arghhh.

 

[Kulindahr]

Hey Kulindahr, ditto what these guys have said already - coming out is a long and crazy process. There will be good weeks and bad, happy and sad. You will curse God for making you this way, and thank God for letting you realize and discover who you are.

I also gripe at God, wondering why half of my life had to be stolen by things that happened to me and beliefs pounded into me. I lived like a robot, unable to relate to other people, a social black hole. So here I am learning social skills most people learn in middle school and high school, feeling lost even at my fave bar -- which is more home than home is -- unless I get kinda wasted.

The dark days are tough, but I know from your many posts that you're a strong, intelligent guy - you obviously have so much to offer as a friend, a neighbor, a partner. The tough times you've been through, and the fact you've climbed up to where you are now from some pretty rough places, prove to me your a gutsy guy and a fighter. The same strength that helped you then will help you find your feet in other ways if you let it.

I'm not really a fighter -- it's my Swiss blood, too damned stubborn to know when to quit, and maybe my Viking blood, unable to do anything besides press on. Maybe it's more the Viking blood; often there's a sense of desperation, desolation, and doomed determination, the sense/concept in the old Norse religion of it doesn't matter that you're going to lose, you keep going.

Hopefully your friends here will help you realise you are worthy and deserving of friends everywhere - you just have to go and find them. And you have to open the door when they knock.

"Go and find them is the hard part. If I want to get to the bar about dinnertime, I have to leave about 3 in the afternoon.
Yeah, I gotta get out of this town!

Good luck, mate. You're amongst friends here - there's shoulders for leaning any time you need 'em.

Like the little boy told the preacher, in the subways when the Germans were bombing, "I need God with arms". In the dark times, only physical contact seems real.

 

[Kulindahr]

Hi Kulindahr,
Why was it so totally unacceptable for so many people - not strangers, but people who knew you - when you told them you were into guys? Religious reasons?

It boils down to religious and redneck.
A lot of people, I didn't even tell, but I knew they'd heard because suddenly they wouldn't talk to me, pretended I didn't exist when I walked down the street, blocked my number on their phones.

The one good thing about all this is that it's behind you, you clearly know what the situation is in your town, and whatever you do now, you don't have a lot to lose. You must have been somehow unhappy with things before you came out, or you wouldn't have done it. And if you hadn't done it, you would still be living on very thin ice, and the pain you have gone through could have hit you much further down the track. So one can't say that it was a bad decision.

At the time it didn't seem like I had any choice. In quick succession, I had to face that I really was sexual, and then it was "Omigod, I like guys!", and I managed to keep that to myself for about a year and a half -- but I realized I didn't have anyone to talk about things (and guys) I found interesting, that going through the motions I'd always gone through of checking out women and talking about them like I was interested was twisting my mind into a space where trying to keep to the things I need to to deal with my disorders was agony and no longer habit... it was either blow up or fall into pieces or tell someone.

I don't know as much about your situation as the other guys here. You're in some kind of a hole, and I think I've got some experience (10 years' worth) of what that's like. This is what I've done about it. Suppose you have some kind of long-term goals (in my case: I want to know what I want out of my career, ....

There's another element of the pit -- career. I'm on disability for a condition that makes it impossible for me to work regular hours. Other people talk about careers, and I long so to be able to have one!

That's a lot of things to have done in a few months, and I'm already finding it hard to connect with the person I was a year ago. Some things that were unimaginable then seem possible now. At some stage (I hope) this will all become more familiar and I will move on to the next obstacle. And eventually I might find myself being able to do what I really want to do. I still don't know what that will be like, but at least I have a greater chance of doing that now.

I used to be able to recall my feelings and thoughts from middle school, high school, college... but since I came out it's getting harder; that person seems like an alien. I feel sometimes like I don't have a past, and that's unsettling.

Do I think it's fair that I have to go through all this dislocation at 28, when everyone around me is consolidating their lives, buying a house, getting married, having kids? Am I happy about it? No, but I see no improvement in my life, long-term, if I don't do it now. And I've already seen big payoffs in terms of life being less scary and more interesting.

Yeah....
There are guys I went to high school with who now have kids of their own in high school. That's depressing.
There are people half my age buying houses and putting a thousand a month into investments at the same time.
I have to mooch off people for a place to live, and have just about given up on ever having a partner. If somehow I do manage to have a son, by the time he's in high school I'll probably have arthritis so bad I won't be able to go hiking or camping with him.

As others have said, one step you might consider taking now is moving out of a place where people are likely to treat you like shit. There are places that are not like that - I live in one, though I didn't know it! What's preventing you from moving? What can you do about that?

Finances... and I think about the only thing I could do besides handyman work would be sales, because I could basically set my own hours.

 

[Kulindahr]

why was my posted deleted? I meant it in all earnest.

Watch this....

see? this is another instance where my gay commune idea would come in handy.

I thought this was good: in a gay commune, I could go to one of the guys and wrap myself around him, and vice versa, and although that wouldn't solve anything, it would sure make me feel better!

Part of my distress is bad enough that often I don't want to be around gay guys, get all nervous all over again about going to a gay bar, and in short relive the intense fragile and anxious feelings of the worst part of coming out. In a gay commune -- I'm thinking like a giant fraternity house set-up -- just the human comfort of touch and smell and presence would be a huge stabilizing factor. In fact, I suspect that in such an environment I might not even have tumbled into this 'stage'.

 

[Zeremonie]

Awww my friend I don't think I can add anything really since I'm not in your boat but I wanna give you a virtual hug for all the difficult feelings and emotions. You're not too far from me! Maybe sometime we could hang out in your small town and you can show me what's there.

 

[Kulindahr]

Awww my friend I don't think I can add anything really since I'm not in your boat but I wanna give you a virtual hug for all the difficult feelings and emotions. You're not too far from me! Maybe sometime we could hang out in your small town and you can show me what's there.

That would take maybe fifteen minutes.

But a tour of the coast and places I like to de-stress would take like a week!


This is weird: at the same time, I'm feeling optimistic... and doomed; I can focus and think... and my mind is all messed up.
It's... ... ... unsettling.

 

[Boogerqueesha]

We're at the dinner table- forget everything that happened at the Politics forum

But you sound like a decent person who's just in a bad place. What's keeping you there? It sounds like a lot of the things that normally keep people in place, like family and friends, have already been cut loose. With a decent connection, you could easily pack your bags and move to a place that nurtures you more.

Just an idea.

 

[Kulindahr]

But you sound like a decent person who's just in a bad place. What's keeping you there? It sounds like a lot of the things that normally keep people in place, like family and friends, have already been cut loose. With a decent connection, you could easily pack your bags and move to a place that nurtures you more.

Just an idea.

I've thought of that, but so far every guy I've met who I'd be willing to room with has a rather jealous-type bf.
If I had a security trailer for my handy service -- one of my current goals -- I'd build a bunk into it and move anyway.

 

[Boogerqueesha]

I've thought of that, but so far every guy I've met who I'd be willing to room with has a rather jealous-type bf.
If I had a security trailer for my handy service -- one of my current goals -- I'd build a bunk into it and move anyway.

D'you have enough money/money making skilllllz to live on your own? A connection could just be a good friend who's willing to show you around, maybe even hook you up with a job.

And Craigslist may have a dark sinister side, the infamous sexual meet-ups, but the people who put up shared room offers are generally nice, reasonable people. If you do a search under 'gay', you can be sure they're gay-friendly. Which doesn't necessarily mean they're gay guys with jealous bfs- there are plenty that are just a collection of young professionals, of all sexual orientations, living in the city, who are just politically aware and conscientious enough to put 'gay-friendly' up on their post.

 

[hanshansen]

It boils down to religious and redneck.
A lot of people, I didn't even tell, but I knew they'd heard because suddenly they wouldn't talk to me, pretended I didn't exist when I walked down the street, blocked my number on their phones.

So, small town at its worst.

I used to be able to recall my feelings and thoughts from middle school, high school, college... but since I came out it's getting harder; that person seems like an alien. I feel sometimes like I don't have a past, and that's unsettling.

Well, the people around you have forced you to make a radical break with your past ...

The years that I can't remember well weren't happy ones. Most of the years at university (too many - from 17 to 24) are a kind of blur and I see a very scared and confused person who I don't recognise. The two worst years, when I was forcing myself to attempt a law degree - all I remember is isolated episodes that don't cohere. I can't remember the names of almost all people I met in my law classes. There is one guy who I see in the lift in my office building from time to time who I may have met at the time. He looks vaguely familiar, but I honestly can't say for certain whether we were ever introduced, though I have the guilty suspicion that we were, more than once. We both act as if we don't know each other. Of course the reason for these 'lost years' is the stress, the lack of social interaction, the insomnia, the fact that I was doing things that I didn't want to be doing ...

Basically, I think we both need to be around people who will be OK (more or less) with whatever we end up doing, and then things will work themselves out in some way in time, even though it isn't clear how at the moment. (Work themselves out in the sense of human relationships and finding some kind of equilibrium in life - of course there are things like physical disabilities or financial limitations that one has to deal with in any case.) In my case, I'm gradually discovering and adjusting to the fact that many people are a lot more generous and open-minded, and also more complex, than I thought they were. In your town, unfortunately, that's not the case.

Nothing to add to what has been said about the practicalities of getting set up somewhere else. I'll just reemphasise that If 'blue state' (secular, urban) America is anything like where I live (urban New Zealand) then people there are not going to treat you really badly because you are gay. At worst they will grudgingly tolerate you, because other people will consider it bad form to be openly homophobic. So, for example, you would not need to restrict yourself to gay roommates (with or without jealous boyfriends). I was meeting potential roommates today and I met one who was clearly gay-friendly (that emerged incidentally, not because I told him I was bi) and the others were clearly not going to be interested in my private life. In a bigger place what you do in one part of town won't become gossip material in the other part.

Good luck whatever you do - you deserve better!!