Do gay men appreciate men more than women do?

[EJMichaels]

Can we agree at the start that we're talking in stereotypes and generalizations? Everybody's different, so the comments here (including mine) shouldn't be taken as meaning that all men or all women are a certain way. It's more about general tendencies than about specific individuals.

This needs to be at the top of so many threads so we don't half the time accusing each other of stereotyping. This thread has been very good about that.

. . . Regardless of sexual orientation, men are men. . . Among other things, they [women] don't understand how men can so easily detach sex and emotion. . .

Kind of what I was saying (the first part), except I neglected to specify that's one thing I especially like about men together. I do that, too, much more that my male partner does.

 

[Nomenclature]

I've had conversations like this with straight guys, where I went over some of the same points in this thread of how men appreciate and understand each other, etc etc. And it was funny, because even the most hardcore, 100% woman-loving straight men - who had no attraction or interest in guys whatsoever - have said the same thing to me: "I wish I was gay."



Men are hungry for appreciation, love and support. They want to be nurtured and emotionally supported, and they want someone who's emotionally on the same page they are. I've spoken to so many men who try to reach out to the women in their lives, only to be treated treated very coldly by them:


Study Finds Men Are More Emotionally Hurt Than Women Over Bad Relationships



Both men and women love listening to Chris Rock talk about love and relationships:


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnZLcx6hIaE"]Chris Rock - Talking In A Relationship[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yqssU99MU8&feature=related"]Chris Rock - View On Love And Relationships[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPesKyIhGZg&feature=related[/ame]


At first, I thought women may be offended by some of the stuff he's saying, but they actually loved the videos and thought he was hilarious "because everything he's saying is SO true."


But, getting closer to the main subject again:


Of course, it's very important to keep in mind: We can idealize gay relationships in our heads and in our hearts, but it isn't automatically going to be better just because men have a camaraderie with each other: gay people get their hearts broken, too; gay people can be real jerks just like straight people can be real jerks. Gay people can be lonely, and can be fucked up from the things we have to deal with on a daily basis. We all have our issues, just like any other person, and just like in any other relationship.

 

[a little edgy]

We can idealize gay relationships in our heads and in our hearts, but it isn't automatically going to be better just because men have a camaraderie with each other: gay people get their hearts broken, too; gay people can be real jerks just like straight people can be real jerks. Gay people can be lonely, and can be fucked up from the things we have to deal with on a daily basis. We all have our issues, just like any other person, and just like in any other relationship.

Oh, sure. Men aren't BETTER than women, they're just DIFFERENT. Men have faults that cause women pain in straight relationships; those same faults can cause pain in gay relationships even if the other partner understands better than a woman might the reason behind them. For example, some men, gay and straight, believe that monogamy is unnatural, at least for males. Since no one seriously expects women to accept this POV, straight guys who believe it will either toe the line or cheat discreetly. A gay man who believes this might well just assume that his partner will understand and accept outside sexual relationships because he's a man, too.

 

[EJMichaels]

. . .Men are hungry for appreciation, love and support. They want to be nurtured and emotionally supported, and they want someone who's emotionally on the same page they are. I've spoken to so many men who try to reach out to the women in their lives, only to be treated treated very coldly by them:
Study Finds Men Are More Emotionally Hurt Than Women Over Bad Relationships

But they don't frickin' tell us. For whatever reason (beyond the scope of this post), they don't know how or don't for some other reason. I learn about my male partner's needs from books, the Internet, other women, etc, but not from him most of the time. When I learn something useful and ask him if it's true, he'll agree. I know some people dislike it, but that book "Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus" is very helpful.

Both men and women love listening to Chris Rock talk about love and relationships . . .

At first, I thought women may be offended by some of the stuff he's saying, but they actually loved the videos and thought he was hilarious "because everything he's saying is SO true."

I hate to admit I agree, at least in part. I actually wrote down a few quotable lines. (Please don't tell anyone or they'll come and take away my feminist credentials.) It's sort of funny that my partner tries to do things for me that women are supposed to like and I want to tell him that I'm not like other women, but that would be complaining. . .

 

[alli-berri]

I don't know how old everyone posting here is (and I'm not entirely sure it matters), but perhaps my perspective is generationally skewed.

I'm 21, and have had sex with 7 women and 3 men over the last 5 yrs.

3/7 of those women were very sexually interested in me, my body, and making me feel good. In each of those 3 cases, they were more sexually appreciative of me than I was of them.

3/3 of the men I've had sex with were VERY sexually appreciative and excitable. The third, my current boyfriend, is much more sexually engaged than I am. But unlike with the ladies, his skills are far superior, and I don't turn him away. (I had to tell the girls "no" more than few times!)

I started this reply with a generational pretense because perhaps young girls and young women feel more sexually liberated than women who are older, and are therefore more comfortable expressing and acting on their desires.

But, as my numbers show - more men are still more sexually appreciative. I just can't say that ALL women aren't. The ones that are sure are a lot of fun though! But not always very skilled, hehe...

 

[datjacob]

Women don't appreciate men because they can have them so easily as were gay men value men because they know how hard to is to get one. I think if men hit on us like they do women we wouldn't value them as much as we do.

 

[Charmander]

I think most women are selfish, and they can't grasp that men can be complex.

 

[bulge]

I think all men (str8, gay ans bi) appreciate men more than women, especially str8s, though str8s are deprived of the gift to appreciate men sexually. When a guy appreciates an other guy sexually, the appreciation clearly is 100% greater than any women appreciation.

 

[Mstrshake]

There is a social stigma towards promiscuity in women that simply does not exist for men. This could or could not affect how women react to sexuality in contrast to how gay men might. I don't know.

From my perspective, I love men, I cannot see myself not appreciating a guy; moreover, I also love being friends with guys (as with girls), I love getting to know them personally, straight or gay.

 

[Krakenbwool]

I'm LOLing at the Chris Rock videos. They're all so, so true.

 

[AsianDream]

Oh yeah, that's another thing. Women apparently get offended at seeing nude male parts (cock), but gay men love it.

Honestly, women are so weird at times.

I think a lot of these points relate to monosexual women (and men).

Bi-sexual girls are another world - and are very far from traditional gender stereotypes.

Certainly they have a much stonger physical appreciation of guys than STR8 women are usuallly credited with.

 

[alli-berri]

Bi-sexual girls ... have a much stonger physical appreciation of guys than STR8 women are usuallly credited with.

GREAT point! I've definitely found this to be true.

BTW, I see that you've changed your orientation since I last looked. Congrats on your understanding and acceptance.

 

[Krakenbwool]

I think a lot of these points relate to monosexual women (and men).

Bi-sexual girls are another world - and are very far from traditional gender stereotypes.

Certainly they have a much stonger physical appreciation of guys than STR8 women are usuallly credited with.

You're right about that. That's the benefit in being open-minded. But it's the women who are truly bisexual, though, not the "I'll make out with my friend because those guys are watching" type of "bi" women, though. They're as narrow-minded as most straight women.

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

As a female, that has been my observation. Women care more about how men make them feel instead of the other way around, while gay men seem to be a lot more "selfless" when it comes to giving affection (to put it euphemistically) to other men.

Any thoughts? Do I not know what I'm talking about, considering I don't have any real experience being a gay/bi man?

I've often thought that women take men for granted! And don't know how lucky they are to have so many hot straight guys at their disposal! and str8 guys will fuck just about any woman, so most women could have ANY man she wanted!

Gay men can only DREAM of having so many hot men at their disposal. I do think that gay men appreciate the male body and sexing men more than women do, but that also comes from women as a whole having much lower sex drives. Most women also buy into the "only the female form is beautiful " and "No one really likes a man's body form" that stupid, insecure straight guys and the media likes to throw out.

I always hear women (straight) talking about how gross men are etc. Also gay men put MEN on the soap box, where as in the hetero world men put WOMEN on the soap box and WOMEN expect to be put on the soap box by MEN.

Men are not supposed to be thought of as sex objects or emotional objects. I've heard str8 women talking about going to female strip clubs even! But they would laugh at male strippers or male nudity in movies!

 

[a little edgy]

and str8 guys will fuck just about any woman, so most women could have ANY man she wanted!

The operative word is "fuck." It's true that any woman who is not completely hideous can get laid pretty much any time she wants to, but most women are not looking for random sex. (And, in fact, some men do have standards, so it's not true that any woman can have any straight man she wants.)

Random hook-ups do happen, of course, but women in general are not just looking for guys to have sex with; they're looking for guys to have a relationship with. And, after a certain age, "relationship" usually means something that might potentially lead to marriage. When you factor that in, then suddenly there are a LOT fewer eligible men.

In other words, I think you're blaming women just for being women. It's not anybody's fault that women seek men they can settle down with. Blame evolution.

On the other hand, I do agree that many young women today seem very entitled, and popular culture definitely encourages the "worship her like a goddess" mentality among young men. It's almost sickening to see the way many otherwise confident, intelligent guys treat women in this awestruck, intimidated way - as though the men should be grateful if a pretty woman so much as deigns to glance in their direction.

On the third hand, too many young straight guys are stuck in adolescence, spending all their time gaming and drinking with buddies and generally acting like they're still in college. So, in that sense, I can't really blame women for being a little frustrated and not always "appreciating" men.

But they would laugh at male strippers or male nudity in movies!

This is another fundamental difference between the sexes: Men are more easily turned on by visual images. They are more excited looking at naked women than women are by looking at naked men. This is not a new phenomenon.

 

[Krakenbwool]

I've often thought that women take men for granted! And don't know how lucky they are to have so many hot straight guys at their disposal! and str8 guys will fuck just about any woman, so most women could have ANY man she wanted!

Gay men can only DREAM of having so many hot men at their disposal. I do think that gay men appreciate the male body and sexing men more than women do, but that also comes from women as a whole having much lower sex drives. Most women also buy into the "only the female form is beautiful " and "No one really likes a man's body form" that stupid, insecure straight guys and the media likes to throw out.

I always hear women (straight) talking about how gross men are etc. Also gay men put MEN on the soap box, where as in the hetero world men put WOMEN on the soap box and WOMEN expect to be put on the soap box by MEN.

Men are not supposed to be thought of as sex objects or emotional objects. I've heard str8 women talking about going to female strip clubs even! But they would laugh at male strippers or male nudity in movies!

That pretty much describes my frustrations with society and the way the sexes are viewed.

The media plays a role, too. Movies like Transformers also frustrate me. As a straight woman and on a completely objective viewpoint, Megan Fox is a MUCH more attractive person than Shia Lebouf. That doesn't mean that women are always better looking than men. What's up with Hollywood trying to paint the "average" guy as a heartthrob, while the female bombshell has to be almost impossibly gorgeous? I definitely don't have anything against the "average" guy, but when that sets the standard for male beauty, I can see why people find women supposedly better-looking.

 

[a little edgy]

I definitely don't have anything against the "average" guy, but when that sets the standard for male beauty, I can see why people find women supposedly better-looking.

I know what you mean, but I think that's because of the things society (still) values in men vs. what it values in women. Being physically attractive is still viewed as being more important for a woman than for a man. Of course, to be successful, it helps to be a handsome guy - we all know that. But men can be extremely virile and masculine without being handsome, and that virility is a very appealing quality not only to women but to other men. (Not to say that Shia LaBeouf fits that category ...)

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

I've heard and experienced this as well...

I say, send the men my way...and I'll appreciate them in all their 'gross'ness.

Ha, 10 fold! I also honestly think that part of the reason I am gay and like guys so much is because of being denied ever getting to see male nudity, being told gay is wrong, and that men are yucky.

Not getting to see men naked actually made me even MORE curious about men and wanting to be with them. Forbidden fruit if you will. It was not exciting for me to see women naked because you can see that anywhere and all the time.

That is just part of it of course. I mean I can appreciate and see when a woman is attractive, but there is just something about a man's raw, rugged, natural beauty that just does it for me! I get far more turned on by an average or even UGLY dude than I do by some plastic playboy bunny! just knowing he's a man does it for me! if that makes sense LOL.

 

[Nomenclature]

I've heard str8 women talking about going to female strip clubs even!

Yeah, straight women think of those places as a joke; if a guy's stupid enough to give a woman all that money just to dance, then it's demeaning THEM, not the woman doing it.

Ha, 10 fold! I also honestly think that part of the reason I am gay and like guys so much is because of being denied ever getting to see male nudity, being told gay is wrong, and that men are yucky.

If that were the case, wouldn't a lot more guys be gay? \()/

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

True! but I did say part of MY reason