Do you agree with Jesse Ventura's statement?

[Lostlover]

"What frustrates and angers me more than anything is this: It's my generation. We've been led down this primrose path once already, with Vietnam. Shouldn't we, of all people, know about being deceived? How dumb can we be? Now we've gone and done the very thing we protested so vehemently against in our youth. We've become what we feared."

-Jesse Ventura in Don't Start the Revolution Without Me (page 267).

Couldn't this quote be applied to gay's civil rights in the contest of seeing African Americans hosed down and marginalized in their youth? And how in 2008 they voted against our rights?

When will they learn? When will enough be enough?

PS: Don't worry, I'm not some loser looking over the net for quotes. I'm 90% complete in the book. I decided to purchase this book after seeing him devour some hosts on Fox News.

 

[construct]

I voted no. I do not think the two issues are analogous. While he is right about Vietnam, your analogy doesn't work. War policy is not comparable to domestic social policy.

 

[iman]

"I asked Dalai Lama the most important question that I think you could ask - if he had ever seen Caddyshack."

Jesse Ventura
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jesse_ventura.html


Personally, I haven't gotten around to reading Mr. Ventura's book as yet.

 

[Apollo]

Once again people still lack an understanding of black people and the culture.

When will people learn?

You can't expect people to vote for you and side with you because you feel the struggle is the same as theirs. I am black, and I don't see the gay civil rights movement as the same as the black civil rights movement.

Good lord, time to start pulling some heads out of some asses.

 

[wastingmymind]

So some actor/politician has a general statement that sounds profound and you're using that to say that black people are morons?

 

[Apollo]

It's cute how defensive that generation is... how quick it is to attack and push its successors down, then inquire incessantly how much they've done when they've never had a chance to do anything. But how fast it runs from its failures... and how many failures they have!

Ummm wrong generation. The people doing all that asking are from the previous generation.

 

[MystikWizard]

Once again people still lack an understanding of black people and the culture.

When will people learn?

You can't expect people to vote for you and side with you because you feel the struggle is the same as theirs. I am black, and I don't see the gay civil rights movement as the same as the black civil rights movement.

I have seen a lot of Blacks state this, but I am hoping you can elaborate further on your opinions on this, and why you feel they aren't the same .... just so I can get a Black man's perspective on why there are many in the Black Community that feel this way. Do you not see what is happening with Gays as "discriminatory"?

Thanks.

 

[Apollo]

What? Do you dare speak ill of the so-called "greatest" generation?

Yes, because if you look at this thread, it is that "great" generation that is the one asking what he has done so far?

 

[Lostlover]

"I asked Dalai Lama the most important question that I think you could ask - if he had ever seen Caddyshack."

Jesse Ventura
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jesse_ventura.html


Personally, I haven't gotten around to reading Mr. Ventura's book as yet.

I'm almost done with the book Iman, sorry. Where this quote was taken was a part of the book where he described delegations coming to Minnesota and he wasn't sure what to ask the Dalai Lama especially not being very religious. He joked that he wasn't very philiosphoical and suggested facetiously the quote above.

More distracting eh when you don't like the topic?

 

[Apollo]

I have seen a lot of Blacks state this, but I am hoping you can elaborate further on your opinions on this, and why you feel they aren't the same.

Thanks.

I can't really intelligently explain it to tell you why I don't feel they are the same movement. I just do. It is a personal opinion of mine and a lot of people that feel the two shouldn't be connected.

In some of my old old posts, I have discussed at length why they are not same, but I can't seem to recreate the words I did in the past (probably just writers block on my part).

To me, I feel it is just wrong and insulting to compare the two. While gay marriage is a biggie in terms of peoples lives, I feel it doesn't even compare to what they had to fight for in the past. What they had to overcome and deal with in those days just aren't the same for people today. Even though some of it may overlap on what we are fighting for today.

They didn't have the luxury of hiding behind a masculine walk and talk, a good acting job to convince everyone they weren't what they were. They lived it, experienced it, were it 24/7 and they could never hide from it. They were apart of their culture 100% not half the time or a quarter of the time, dipping in and out of the culture at their whim, depending on the situation.

And yes, there are some gay men who live it 100%. They can't help it, it is in the way they move, talk, and just are. But that is SOME, only some. And according to this board, not even representative of the majority of the gay community.

 

[Apollo]

Well, the "greatest" generation is allegedly the WWII generation. The Baby Boomers include Ventura, who is criticizing his own generation.

btw, Lostlover, I'm rather curious what it is Ventura is referring to in that quote. Can you give more of the context surrounding it?

I wouldn't agree the WW2 generation was the greatest generation. But hey, thats that. I was more refering to the baby boomers and the generation right after that.

 

[Lostlover]

Well, the "greatest" generation is allegedly the WWII generation. The Baby Boomers include Ventura, who is criticizing his own generation.

btw, Lostlover, I'm rather curious what it is Ventura is referring to in that quote. Can you give more of the context surrounding it?

The chapter is called "Thinking War in a Peaceful Place" and he goes through recent American history (1950's and on) about how the government has made a concerted effort at times to go to war and that basically the government will and has lied to justify military intervention.

He goes on about how corporate America is making a killing on projects in Iraq (Haliburton, Blackwater, etc.). According to Ventura, there's a 2 to 1 ratio of private security agents like Blackwater to American soldiers!

Obviously he spoke about Iraq but also the Gulf of Tonkin incident that was a government lie to get us involved in Vietnam.

He also fillets people in his generation like Bush and Cheney who got deferments to stay from fighting (Cheney enrolled at a community college after getting his JD to avoid serving his country. Cheney filed for deferment 5 times!).

This quote below sticks out the most to me from this chapter.

"But I can't forgive the rest of the chicken-hawk cowards--Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, and the rest--who never served, and who sent American boys to Iraq to die. All based on a pack of lies."-Jesse Ventura (page 260)

The original quote was asking how people in Ventura's generation that have seen the cruelties of war now be the staunchest supporters of military involvement. Voluntary military involvement in another country?

Basically, he's just as pissed off as I am. And he's speaking right to me.

 

[construct]

^ I asked a question. Isn't Obama a part of the very generation that Lost Lover baits and debases? Yes or no? Is or is not Obama a Boomer?

[construct raises his hand wildly] ooh ooh, I know the answer, ooh, let me, let me, ooh.

 

[Lostlover]

^ I asked a question. Isn't Obama a part of the very generation that Lost Lover baits and debases? Yes or no? Is or is not Obama a Boomer?

I'm not baiting. You, as a gay man, should be just as angry as I am. But to not know who your enemies are is probably why gays are scraping the bottom of the barrel for things like health benefits in 2009.

 

[construct]

^ Yes, construct, what's the answer? Is Obama a Baby Boomer?

Yes! He's a boomer! He's only three years younger than ME!

 

[Lostlover]

Thanks, Lostlover. Interesting.

I don't know. I've not seen his REAL birth certificate. However, Obama has said he was sent by Jor-El, which implies he's an alien. Cover-ups... cover-ups.

What are you wanting from me? I'm not taking this serious. I have no need to, what with having no dog in this fight.

Also, right after the original quote he recounts meeting Bill Walton (the NBA legend) in a gym and Bill was a hippie in the 70's. He told Ventura he was for reinstating the draft. Jesse was floored as he led efforts to abolish the draft but he said he switched his position because statistics showed poorer, more colored Americans representing the Army disproportionately.

Ventura argues that if there is a draft, it wouldn't be so easy to go to war. And I agree. In fact, I'll one up Walton and Ventura and increase the age of service to 65. If you're bold enough to support a warmonger in McCain, you should be bold enough to get your decrepit ass in Fallujah.

It's a very good read. I can hear Ventura talking to me while reading the book. You can just tell he loves shooting the breeze.

 

[construct]

It's a very good read. I can hear Ventura talking to me while reading the book. You can just tell he loves shooting the breeze.

There you have it, folks! Voilá!

 

[letme]

L.L. a couple of question for you to avoid answering ,as you are good at avoiding points/questions.

At one time I believe I read that you are a teacher. Is that true ? What to you teach or what ages of kids to you teach ?

If you are not an educator , what do you do for a living ?

How OLD are You ??? You alway belitlle the over 40 crowd. How close to that magic age are you ?

 

[Lostlover]

L.L. a couple of question for you to avoid answering ,as you are good at avoiding points/questions.

At one time I believe I read that you are a teacher. Is that true ? What to you teach or what ages of kids to you teach ?

If you are not an educator , what do you do for a living ?

How OLD are You ??? You alway belitlle the over 40 crowd. How close to that magic age are you ?

I'm in my early 20's. Sub taught for a teacher that had endometrius (spelling) and ended up finishing out the year.

There is no magic age. If you're aware of this country's history and don't learn from our mistakes, you're foolish.

I do hold the ones who actually lived through our country's errors to a higher standard. Living through Vietnam should make you more aware of the mistake it was than someone twenty years later reading about it in a textbook.

Weird, huh?

 

[construct]

There is no magic age. If you're aware of this country's history and don't learn from our mistakes, you're foolish.

Quoted for agreement. Bookmark it. Write it on your calendars.