Do you agree with Jesse Ventura's statement?

[Lostlover]

Quoted for agreement. Bookmark it. Write it on your calendars.

I just added a small caveat to that.

I do hold the ones who actually lived through our country's errors to a higher standard. Living through Vietnam should make you more aware of the mistake it was than someone twenty years later reading about it in a textbook.

Weird, huh?

 

[construct]

I just added a small caveat to that.

The caveat's fine. It's small enough that I don't care.

I'll add my own. It behooves the younger generation to thank us that things aren't as bad as they were. We're old enough to remember what it was like and tell you. You really need to listen and learn.

 

[letme]

L.L. thanks for the response to my questions.

 

[chuck10x]

I'm in my early 20's. Sub taught for a teacher that had endometrius (spelling) and ended up finishing out the year.

There is no magic age. If you're aware of this country's history and don't learn from our mistakes, you're foolish.

I do hold the ones who actually lived through our country's errors to a higher standard. Living through Vietnam should make you more aware of the mistake it was than someone twenty years later reading about it in a textbook.

Weird, huh?

Speaking of history.
June 28,1969 is the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots.
It was the birth of the Gay Rights Movement.
The people responsible for any of the rights we have today I believe are in their 60's and 70's.
I'm sure Youtube has some good video's.
Stonewall was a part of history that I was never taught in school or saw in a textbook. Weird huh?

 

[construct]

Speaking of history.
June 28,1969 is the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots.
It was the birth of the Gay Rights Movement.
The people responsible for any of the rights we have today I believe are in their 60's and 70's.
I'm sure Youtube has some good video's.
Stonewall was a part of history that I was never taught in school or saw in a textbook. Weird huh?

Stonewall was the start of the gay liberation phase. (The modern gay rights movement began in 1950 with the founding of the Mattachine Society.) Out of Stonewall was born the Gay Liberation Front. While the GLF existed until 1972, it changed the whole tone and action in our struggle for equality. Stonewall marked the beginning of a new era, a passing of the torch as it were.

 

[Edward Twinkletoes]

Once again people still lack an understanding of black people and the culture.

When will people learn?

You can't expect people to vote for you and side with you because you feel the struggle is the same as theirs. I am black, and I don't see the gay civil rights movement as the same as the black civil rights movement.

Good lord, time to start pulling some heads out of some asses.

You're right. It's not exactly the same. But it's similar. The main point is black folks should know how discrimination feels better than anyone else in this country. If there's anyone who should understand how gay people feel in a country full of people who view them as second class citizens (or worse), I would think it would be black people. Particularly the older ones who remember how it used to be.

 

[iman]

I really don't understand the logic of holding everyone that was alive during Vietnam to a higher standard, buy exempt Ventura who enlisted, served 6 years as a gung-ho SEAL. Many of us knew Vietnam was a disaster at the time and fought to end the war. Ventura was part of the problem, he supported the war by enlisting to fight it. Why should anyone trust his judgement now? Do steroids give one special insight?

It is pretty unfortunate that this forum has descended into an argument about condemning an entire generation because of the times in which they lived and quoting Jesse Ventura as an authority on anything.






THE GURU


Best thing in this thread:

I mean, like, GPS couldn't help her find her snatch using both hands.

 

[Apollo]

You're right. It's not exactly the same. But it's similar. The main point is black folks should know how discrimination feels better than anyone else in this country. If there's anyone who should understand how gay people feel in a country full of people who view them as second class citizens (or worse), I would think it would be black people. Particularly the older ones who remember how it used to be.

Ok now reread the quote in post #42 and you will have my follow up post.

The don't see it as the same or similar. And further, it goes agaisnt their religion.

 

[chuck10x]

Stonewall was the start of the gay liberation phase. (The modern gay rights movement began in 1950 with the founding of the Mattachine Society.) Out of Stonewall was born the Gay Liberation Front. While the GLF existed until 1972, it changed the whole tone and action in our struggle for equality. Stonewall marked the beginning of a new era, a passing of the torch as it were.

Thanks for the information, I never heard of the Mattachine Society, I will check it out.
Think it's time to post some things the older generations did for gay rights?

 

[Lostlover]

The caveat's fine. It's small enough that I don't care.

I'll add my own. It behooves the younger generation to thank us that things aren't as bad as they were. We're old enough to remember what it was like and tell you. You really need to listen and learn.

Very true. However, I attribute the change to television moreso than the people. And I believe this is probably true considering the ones still living today aren't exactly the most tolerant or progressive people. Seriously, do you believe intolerance played no role in them being the only age demographic to support McCain?

We all hear about the right wing blaming our moral decline on television and liberals. Well, I believe television and those hippies in California are changing the way gays are viewed moreso than the older folks that shoot down gay marriage initiatives with such ease.

 

[construct]

Thanks for the information, I never heard of the Mattachine Society, I will check it out.
Think it's time to post some things the older generations did for gay rights?

The Mattachine Society was founded by Harry Hay and others (mostly former Communists). Its original organization followed the pattern of Communist cells. Mattachine was fairly polite in its approach pushing for acceptance within the existing social structure. Their demonstrations followed strict dress codes, for example. Ties were required for the men and skirts for the women.

Among the principle goals were an end to police raids, ending the exclusion of gays from government employment, and removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses. All of those goals have been pretty much accomplished. One could also credit polite action with the gradual, state-by-state repeal of sodomy laws beginning with Illinois in 1961.

The Gay Liberation Front adopted New Left approaches from such organizations as SDS and NOW. Gone were the old dress codes and the assimilationist goals. The GLF offered a radical critique of conventional structures. It replaced the polite picketing with marches, disruptions, and zaps. It also actively sought more or less successfully to build bridges with other New Left organizations such as the Black Panther Party. It integrated gay liberation with an ideology of general human liberation.

Since the demise of the GLF, the gay movement has largely narrowed its goals to specifically gay rights issues, but it kept the confrontational attitude of the GLF. We have seen that spirit in organization such as the Gay Activist Alliance, ACT-UP, and Queer Nation.

The defeat of the Briggs Initiative in California back in the late 1970s put an end to Anita Bryant's Save the Children campaign. The end of bar raids in the 1980s can be chalked up to liberationist efforts. Increased federal funding for AIDS was accomplished by disruptions and zaps as was some of the movement toward acceptance of gays in Christian denominations.

These are just a few of the accomplishments of the older generation.

 

[Lostlover]

One word: bullshit. You haven't got the gonads to be honest, so you do your Passive Polly routine.

Both you and Nick exist for one reason: to hate others. He does it better, maybe because he's smarter.

Oh, love your choice for summer reading -- Ventura. She's a regular Jean-Paul Sartre. And you gloss over his stupidity and ignorance about the Dalai Lama by asserting he's not "religious?" PLEASE! PLEASE! Do you take everyone here to be a fool?

No, it's absolutely true. You should be just as mad as I am. I take this whole response as shame on your part which I think is a good sign. A lot of other people are indifferent to this all.

I'll take shame over indifference.

And finally, as a wrestling watcher I will tell you that was Ventura's character not who he really is. He was in Ventura, California when he came up with that alter-ego (something he wrote about in his book).

And let's say that's really who he is. A flaming lispin' queen. How can you as a gay or bisexual man ridicule his gender and refer to him as a her in derogatory fashion?

 

[Lostlover]

You? A loser? My, why would anyone think that?


Anyway, gotta dance!

I'm out of high school. I actually don't care about popularity.

I was actually referring to a geriatric poster here that uses his 15 minutes of internet time at the old folk's home to "dig up dirt" on Obama.

 

[Lostlover]

Speaking of history.
June 28,1969 is the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots.
It was the birth of the Gay Rights Movement.
The people responsible for any of the rights we have today I believe are in their 60's and 70's.
I'm sure Youtube has some good video's.
Stonewall was a part of history that I was never taught in school or saw in a textbook. Weird huh?

Do you really want to know how people in their 60's and 70's voted in 2008 for gay marriage?

Really?

A few good apples does NOT salvage the orchard.

 

[Lostlover]

I really don't understand the logic of holding everyone that was alive during Vietnam to a higher standard, buy exempt Ventura who enlisted, served 6 years as a gung-ho SEAL. Many of us knew Vietnam was a disaster at the time and fought to end the war. Ventura was part of the problem, he supported the war by enlisting to fight it. Why should anyone trust his judgement now? Do steroids give one special insight?

It is pretty unfortunate that this forum has descended into an argument about condemning an entire generation because of the times in which they lived and quoting Jesse Ventura as an authority on anything.






THE GURU


Best thing in this thread:

LMAO. Blame the troops for the war.

Just as pathetic as Kuli's blame the youth for gay marriage faltering in 2008.

Midnight are you listening to this craziness? Like Obama said about Grandpa McCain: "He's losing his bearings."

So, so true.

 

[andysayshi]

And finally, as a wrestling watcher I will tell you that was Ventura's character not who he really is.

Thanks for clearing that up.

And let's say that's really who he is. A flaming lispin' queen. How can you as a gay or bisexual man ridicule his gender and refer to him as a her in derogatory fashion?

You mean, like ridiculing someone's opinion by suggesting he's "on his period?" You mean, like ridiculing someone's vote by suggesting he votes for anything "with a vagina"?

Yeah, that would be really bad.

 

[Lostlover]

Uh, you of "voting with their vagina?"" Good one!

Oh, Mary, please don't tell me you watch wrestling! WRESTLNG! A man in his twenties, watching WRESTLNG? OMFG, that's the icing on the cake! It explains so much because, ya know, the demographics for that are eight to ten year old kids. Oh. Nevermind! It makes sense!

And you're the one using smilies religiously and calling someone immature?

I guess I must have hit a nerve. Shame? Probably. I'll take it.

 

[chuck10x]

Do you really want to know how people in their 60's and 70's voted in 2008 for gay marriage?

Really?

A few good apples does NOT salvage the orchard.

No, I only hold A person to account for what they do, Not the group they belong too, Just as I don't hold all 20 somethings for 1 20ish persons views.
Do you hold all African Americans for their vote on Gay Marriage responsible?
Their numbers are pretty high on the vote, Yet, You don't mention it.

 

[iman]

LMAO. Blame the troops for the war.

Just as pathetic as Kuli's blame the youth for gay marriage faltering in 2008.

Midnight are you listening to this craziness? Like Obama said about Grandpa McCain: "He's losing his bearings."

So, so true.

Yes, of course, if a man volunteers to go kill Vietnamese(although Venturi never saw combat outside the wrestling ring) he has to accept responsibility for it, he can no longer blame Johnson or Nixon. Many of us chose to avoid service and some of us were drafted and some of us were poor and had few options, but Venturi had a choice.

Are you totally incapable of logic? Incapable of making an argument?

I suppose when we have people teaching our kids who couldn't teach a monkey how to masturbate, I shouldn't be surprised, but it is depressing. I suppose it is Bush's fault - we have found a child that was left behind.

 

[Lostlover]

Come in here midnight, he's trying to defend it lol!