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Oh, Mary, please don't tell me you watch wrestling! WRESTLNG! A man in his twenties, watching WRESTLNG? OMFG, that's the icing on the cake! It explains so much because, ya know, the demographics for that are eight to ten year old kids. Oh. Nevermind! It makes sense!
Actually, Alfie, you obviously aren't very in touch with wrestling if you think it is still primarily marketed to 8-10 year olds. I was still following the business regularly for up until about 3-4 years ago, myself. However, the product has gotten completely stale and absolutely boring as all get out.
Here are some statistics of the buildup of the WWE audience.
Demographics
* 86% are male * Mean Age = 24 yrs old
* 36% are ages 12-17 * 58% are ages 18-49
* 40% are males 18-34
* 39% are non-white
* 62% of males 18-34 are full time employed
* 41% are student
* 78% have high speed connections
* 86% are male
* Mean Age = 24 yrs old
* 36% are ages 12-17
* 58% are ages 18-49
* 40% are males 18-34
* 39% are non-white
* 62% of males 18-34 are full time employed
* 41% are student
* 78% have high speed connections * 00.1% derive political ideology from ex-WWF performers
Well, to each his own, I suppose - I like The Simpsons, and my parents can't believe I watch cartoons. But to me, "grown up" and WWF just don't belong in the same sentence.
Well, to each his own, I suppose - I like The Simpsons, and my parents can't believe I watch cartoons. But to me, "grown up" and WWF just don't belong in the same sentence.
If you don't watch it, then you don't know. I have studied the business since 1990 and there is two completely different fans of the product which can be classified. "Mark" fans as they are called, essentially believe wrestling is real. That is probably 5%-10% of today's audience, with 99% of that portion being kids.
The rest of the audience is typically referred to as "smart to the business" or commonly referred to as "smarks". They know how the business works, know the who's who behind the scenes, and has the ability to critique the product from a business point-of-view.
We don't live in the day and age anymore, where the company is trying to fool fans into thinking the product is real. Pretty much everyone knows it isn't. The company expects its audience to realize that it is simply watching a television program, just like any other show on TV.
Gone are the gimmicky characters you saw in the Hogan Era. And what today's product does is put the focus on analyzing and critiquing the actual matches that the talent puts on. I personally don't find just watching scripted matches very exciting, however it is possible they will incorporate some storyline back into the product once again. We'll see.
But the product and it's fanbase is much, much different than one thinks, unless they study the business and actually learn more about it. But it is not the kiddie business it used to be.
Yes, he was the former Governor of Minnesota. He got his start in wrestling, and eventually became a color commentator next to Vince McMahon. The guy was an absolute riot to listen to, and I truly miss him behind the booth, as he made the shows a Hell of a lot more entertaining than they are today.
He's a very intelligent guy, if you listen to him. He appears frequently on FOX, and goes at it with Hannity.
Well, if 58% are age 18-49, then the older generation can't be blamed for this inanity. I suppose that since most wrestling fans are 18-49, then all 18-49 year olds are equally morons. Isn't that how the new logic works?
Anyone gauge the mental maturity of those 18-49 year olds?
True. So very, very true. Caveat: we only have a small sampling to work with, but as you say, that's all that's needed, given generalizations made here by, well, you know, the vaginal juice-discharging, crotch-watching WWF fan-girls.
Funny how times change!
When you were in your early 20's, you were doing your duty, through rice paddies in Vietnam.
Me? In my twenties I was studying full-time at Columbia University, devouring an average 3,000 pages of Hum-Lit assigned reading per week whilst working full-time at a network news organization.
Others, well, they watch WWF, getting their rocks off contemplating the cock size of faux wrestlers, all while damning those Lazy Old People. My How Times Change.
I certainly didn't hear anyone refer to the Old People as "lazy". Once again, writing whatever you want to believe that people are saying, apparently. Is that the type of yellow-dog journalism you did at the network news organization you worked at? Just make up whatever copy you want to fill space?
BTW, I also worked Full-Time and went to school Full-Time. If you want to debate wrestling with me, since I'm pretty well-schooled on the business side of that product, feel free to discuss it in the appropriate forum, which happens to be the largest thread in the Celebrity section.
I also find it very hard to believe that you don't get your porn from a variety of sources, either.
Uh oh, as I've long suspected,I guess I'm a moron too..
I got Jesse's book as a gift from a Jubber.I liked it and found it to be an entertaining diversion.Since the words rarely exceeded two syllables,I didn't use that much chapstick..
I didn't figure the book would be too deep, and it wasn't. It was a light hearted take on things from Jesse's perspective.
I was never into wrestling and really didn't know anything about him until reading his book. Myself, I think he's had an interesting life and he seems like a genuinly good person,albiet a bit nuts.
I like how he calls both the dems and the repugs on they're shit. He sees the pugs for the scum they are and the dems for the quivering punks they are..
Maybe if people took SOME of his advise and ditched both parties,we might be better off for it.
Couldn't have said it better. I just finished the part where he lays into Dems for being sheeps when initially supporting the Iraq war. They were too scared to be called unpatriotic so they went along.
Couldn't have said it better. I just finished the part where he lays into Dems for being sheeps when initially supporting the Iraq war. They were too scared to be called unpatriotic so they went along.
Jesse Ventura's motto as a Broadcaster in wrestling was to always "Tell it like it is." However, he seems to have that philosophy in real life, and especially with politics. Which is why I respect him a great deal. The guy is very honest and forthright.
Gayness is distributed so as to include the widest variables in personality and political disposition.
The Dalai Lama was mentioned. Much of his teaching could ameliorate the issues that Lostlover has mentioned. Just learn to think more clearly.
And no, Alfie, the DL isn't particularly religious. American fans thereof? Well, I could agree with that.
And did Jesse's post-greatest generation fail??? Well, WWII sure wasn't the last war, was it? On the other hand, our prime directives were as politically-diffuse and individualized as gay psychology is. So, which way was up????
But Jesse get's at least an A-!
Maybe future classrooms will read Jesse Ventura...
I'm more of a bridger myself--like Obama--between boomers and gen-x.
It's also great insight into how screwed up politics is. Remember the part where he discussed reviewing Minnesota's 5 encyclopedias worth of laws?
The states don't tax man's hair cuts but taxes haircuts to dogs. They taking trees down but not trimming. And car dealerships, you know the free market people, sought to ban dealerships from selling cars on Sundays so they can have an off day?!?
The moment he tried to erase that crap he had both parties up his ass.
If you liked Jesse's philosophy, politics and steroid driven insight, then you should go back to the roots. May I suggest the original, most imitated wrestler of them all:
If you liked Jesse's philosophy, politics and steroid driven insight, then you should go back to the roots. May I suggest the original, most imitated wrestler of them all:
Jesse is in no position to judge "his generation". He was enlisted during the Vietnam conflicts, and AWOL during all the civil rights struggles, but like yourself, he has done nothing but collaborate and then self righteously criticizes everyone else. Too bad that you buy into this deception. No, I will not vote in your poll.
Jesse is in no position to judge "his generation". He was enlisted during the Vietnam conflicts, and AWOL during all the civil rights struggles, but like yourself, he has done nothing but collaborate and then self righteously criticizes everyone else. Too bad that you buy into this deception. No, I will not vote in your poll.
Thanks for responding to the first post. Well sort of.
It's your right to not take the poll. I won't shoot you with a water cannon for disagreeing with me. Remember that.
By the way, Ventura is for gay marriage. I just wish more people in his age range thought like him. Maybe I might be a first class citizen in 2009.
What I find funny is that I hope you do experience equality as a gay man. You've probably experienced things I will never experienced and lived in an America that was even less tolerant of gays than today.
But the irony is, you're going to need a lot of people half your age voting to be an equal in this country. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Thanks for responding to the first post. Well sort of.
It's your right to not take the poll. I won't shoot you with a water cannon for disagreeing with me. Remember that.
By the way, Ventura is for gay marriage. I just wish more people in his age range thought like him. Maybe I might be a first class citizen in 2009.
What I find funny is that I hope you do experience equality as a gay man. You've probably experienced things I will never experienced and lived in an America that was even less tolerant of gays than today.
But the irony is, you're going to need a lot of people half your age voting to be an equal in this country. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Older people are generally opposed to gay marriage because that view is reflective of the times and country where they grew up. Gay marriage was not even a consideration a few years ago. Young people are increasingly in favor of gay marriage because they have grown up in a world where gay marriage is a reality and a fait accompli in the US. While it is possible to admire and agree with young people about gay marriage, belief in gay marriage is not in and of itself a virtuous act. In fact, it may be more admirable for an older person to believe in gay marriage because they grew up in a world where gay marriage was unheard of.
I see no reason why I should need young people to be an "equal" in this country. I am equal, I have had a partner for what seems like an eternity and we have no need or desire to skip down the aisle like a couple of str8 people, but to each his own, it should be a right.
The real irony is that gay people live rather normal lives in many areas of the country, b ut apparently, some have adopted the mantle of victimhood. Instead of revelling in the freedom and acceptance they have, they prefer to whine and moan about "oppression" and look for scapegoats to blame their unhappiness.
I can't really intelligently explain it to tell you why I don't feel they are the same movement. I just do. It is a personal opinion of mine and a lot of people that feel the two shouldn't be connected.
Firstly, I apologize I didn't get a chance to get back with you sooner, as I just caught your response. But again, I appreciate your perspective on the matter and the opportunity to discuss it.
Like I've stated, I noticed that many Black Gays seem to agree with your perspective, and don't feel it is the same movement. Here is a clip on the O'Reilly Factor in which a White Gay man and a Black Lesbian woman argued about it being 2 different movements that shouldn't be classified as the same. Here is the clip for anyone interested.
And just a side comment ... what O'Reilly alludes to in the opening comments about the senior citizen who had the cross slapped out of her hand and stomped on by Gay Activists, was disgusting, and those activists should be ashamed of themselves. Not that I agree with the woman, but for Pete's sake, you don't go up to her and assault her over it. Nice way to give the Gay Community a bad name.
Anyway, here is the debate between the Black woman and the White man, who debate the topic of comparing the Black Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Civil Rights Movement.
In some of my old old posts, I have discussed at length why they are not same, but I can't seem to recreate the words I did in the past (probably just writers block on my part).
No problem. Just speak your mind as if we are having a casual conversation about it. I'm not looking to have a formal debate or anything. Just a casual conversation is fine, as far as I'm concerned.
To me, I feel it is just wrong and insulting to compare the two. While gay marriage is a biggie in terms of peoples lives, I feel it doesn't even compare to what they had to fight for in the past. What they had to overcome and deal with in those days just aren't the same for people today. Even though some of it may overlap on what we are fighting for today.
Okay, this is the biggie that I think a lot of Blacks are getting caught up on.
From a White Man's perspective, I don't think White Gays are looking at this in the same manner as you think we are. When White Gays compare the Gay Civil Rights movement to the Black Civil Rights movement, Whites aren't saying (as far as I can see) that Gays went through all the hardships that Blacks did.
White Gays aren't saying that all of us were living on plantations, were enslaved, were beaten on a daily basis for not producing enough output each day, or were told to go to the back of the bus ... or anything like that. Let's be perfectly clear on that. Gays have had a very difficult time being accepted in society, but we (White Gays) ARE NOT comparing what we went through, to what Blacks had to go through in order to obtain their Civil Rights.
In many ways, a lot of Gays can blend in easier within society, where as Blacks obviously can not. We can do our best to hide our true selves, as long as we aren't overly effeminate (Men) or overly Masculine (Women). So, we have an easier time in that regard. However, it is very psychologically damaging in that depending on our surroundings, we can not actually be our true selves for fear of being fired for being Gay, or being the subject of hate crimes depending on where we live, can't walk out on the street with a loved one without being given nasty looks or having negative comments thrown your direction, can't get married, etc.
Essentially, what I think needs to sink in with those in the Black Community that White Gays aren't saying what we have had to go through is the same degree of hardship that the ancestors of Blacks had to go through .... but rather we look at the movement as being along the same THEME ... and that THEME is "fighting discrimination".
So my conclusions is that there is a breakdown in communication somewhere between White Gays and Black Gays, with Blacks thinking that Whites are comparing the two movements along the same hardships, and that isn't the case, whatsoever. It's the theme of "fighting discrimination so we can be treated as equal members of society" which is the matter with which White Gays "compare" to the Black Civil Rights movement.
I hope that clarifies the matter, somewhat.
And to anyone else that wants to hop in on this discussion, feel free, as I think it's imperative that both Black and White Gays get on the same page with this as possible.
I can't really intelligently explain it to tell you why I don't feel they are the same movement. I just do. It is a personal opinion of mine and a lot of people that feel the two shouldn't be connected.
In some of my old old posts, I have discussed at length why they are not same, but I can't seem to recreate the words I did in the past (probably just writers block on my part).
To me, I feel it is just wrong and insulting to compare the two. While gay marriage is a biggie in terms of peoples lives, I feel it doesn't even compare to what they had to fight for in the past. What they had to overcome and deal with in those days just aren't the same for people today. Even though some of it may overlap on what we are fighting for today.
They didn't have the luxury of hiding behind a masculine walk and talk, a good acting job to convince everyone they weren't what they were. They lived it, experienced it, were it 24/7 and they could never hide from it. They were apart of their culture 100% not half the time or a quarter of the time, dipping in and out of the culture at their whim, depending on the situation.
And yes, there are some gay men who live it 100%. They can't help it, it is in the way they move, talk, and just are. But that is SOME, only some. And according to this board, not even representative of the majority of the gay community.
Your post reeks of internalized homophobia and condescending attitudes. You think the gay rights movement is just about gay marriage? Dead wrong. That's like saying the black civil rights movement was simply about (insert single issue here). While I agree that it's a little different in that black people can't "hide" their minority status, your assumption that gay people having the 'ability' to 'hide' is a 'luxury', as opposed to an example of oppression (people assuming everyone is straight)/ the mental oppression that gay people endure by having this internalized minority status where everyone might THINK you're one of the status quo. That's not a fucking luxury. People shouldn't have to hide who they are, the fact that we can get away with it and are sometimes forced to do so is a result of oppression, not our status. That's fucked up. And then you go as far to take PITY on the people that "can't help" but act so gay, as if it is something to 'help'. It really sounds like you think hiding, the closet, and the mental oppression people go through are actually enjoyable. You know, Malcolm X wasn't just talking about black civil rights, he was also talking about the colonization of the mind that the majority instills upon the minority, and THAT happens to gay people to. Being oppressed because of the color of your skin is one thing. Because oppressed because of who you are attracted to and who you fall in love with is not any fucking better or more manageable.
And lest we forget the intersections of oppressions. They interlock and overlap. Class, race, gender, orientation, etc. We shouldn't be arguing who has it worse but rather examining why we live under a system the perpetuates oppression.
And lest we forget the intersections of oppressions. They interlock and overlap. Class, race, gender, orientation, etc. We shouldn't be arguing who has it worse but rather examining why we live under a system the perpetuates oppression.
Obviously we don't live under a "system that perpetrates oppression" since minorities have been able to access the system to an unprecedented extent during the last 40 years.
If you really want to live under oppression go to Iran or Burma or any of hundreds of other countries. Anyone living in Europe, Canada, the US or most Western nations should stop dressing in the drag of victimhood and act like serious people.
