Do you believe in God ?

[jbrown329]

That the Universe had a beginning does inform us that before the Universe had its beginning, something caused the Universe to begin.

To believe that the Universe came into being, of its own cause is to assume that the Universe, came into existence out of nothingness. Nothing, comes out of nothing.

It can also be argued that the infinity of nothing, is nothing ad infinitum.

 

[Telstra]

Very good video,
but before the big bang is still a guessing game.

 

[FirmaFan]

Very good video,
but before the big bang is still a guessing game.

Could there even exist a "before" prior to the big bang as "before" implies the element of time, which did not exist until the big bang occurred? Kalli seems to have trouble acknowledging this conundrum.

Liked the video. Lots of "we don't knows" in there which really leave us with 2 options - continue looking for answers, or plug god in there and call it a day.

 

[jbrown329]

Very good video,
but before the big bang is still a guessing game.

http://www.nikon.com/about/feelnikon/light/chap01/sec01.htm

 

[Telstra]

Could there even exist a "before" prior to the big bang as "before" implies the element of time, which did not exist until the big bang occurred? Kalli seems to have trouble acknowledging this conundrum.

Liked the video. Lots of "we don't knows" in there which really leave us with 2 options - continue looking for answers, or plug god in there and call it a day.

Time did not exist but human imagination can make it exist such as time=0 or time= -10 years ... etc

 

[kallipolis]

Time did not exist but human imagination can make it exist such as time=0 or time= -10 years ... etc

Correct....for time is a human invention...enabling scientists to "date" events from the beginning of the Universe, otherwise known to us as the single point, or the Big Bang event i.e. O.

 

[kallipolis]

Could there even exist a "before" prior to the big bang as "before" implies the element of time, which did not exist until the big bang occurred? Kalli seems to have trouble acknowledging this conundrum.

Liked the video. Lots of "we don't knows" in there which really leave us with 2 options - continue looking for answers, or plug god in there and call it a day.

You need to read that which is staring you in the face. For I have already addressed this matter. I will make it easy for you by repeating the relevant passage from post 119:

Celebrity cosmologists such as Stephen Hawking (recently cited on this thread) believe the beginning of the Big Bang was time t = 0, but other cosmologists (including Sean Carroll, Jennifer Chen, and Julian Barbour) believe our universe had a Big Bang event but that the universe did not begin with this event, and that our universe may be eternal in the past and future. Here you may appreciate that there are many conflicting understandings among scientists, when attempting to understand the beginning of time per the reference point of the Big Bang, as an indicator/mile stone marking the "birth" of physical matter.

 

[vidarr]

Celebrity cosmologists such as Stephen Hawking (recently cited on this thread) believe the beginning of the Big Bang was time t = 0, but other cosmologists (including Sean Carroll, Jennifer Chen, and Julian Barbour) believe our universe had a Big Bang event but that the universe did not begin with this event, and that our universe may be eternal in the past and future. Here you may appreciate that there are many conflicting understandings among scientists, when attempting to understand the beginning of time per the reference point of the Big Bang, as an indicator/mile stone marking the "birth" of physical matter.

In math, we know a complex number has no end and yet we can describe it. In physics we know of states of matter that shouldn't exist, or at least logically don't make any sense.

The universe we may never know if it always existed or if it exists at all, but we certainly can know the birth and death of matter in it. There need not be any god or demon to create it.

 

[kallipolis]

In math, we know a complex number has no end and yet we can describe it. In physics we know of states of matter that shouldn't exist, or at least logically don't make any sense.

The universe we may never know if it always existed or if it exists at all, but we certainly can know the birth and death of matter in it. There need not be any god or demon to create it.

Read my contributions and you will note my references to the birth of the Universe...and other matters pertaining to the topic under review on this thread.

 

[TX-Beau]

Read my contributions and you will note my references to the birth of the Universe...and other matters pertaining to the topic under review on this thread.

Oh come on, your contribution seems to be to avoid the point, while insisting that all is unknowable and you don't the time to discuss it.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I'm reminded of the fourth horseman's totally excellent point about charity frequently. I never live up to the standard myself, but I certainly admire it. From Dennett's Intuition Pumps and other Tools for Thinking:

How to compose a successful critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
One immediate effect of following these rules is that your targets will be a receptive audience for your criticism: you have already shown that you understand their positions as well as they do, and have demonstrated good judgment (you agree with them on some important matters and have even been persuaded by something they said). Following Rapoport’s rules is always, for me, something of a struggle…

I think point 1. is gigantically important, and gigantically ignored.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm reminded of the fourth horseman's totally excellent point about charity frequently. I never live up to the standard myself, but I certainly admire it. From Dennett's Intuition Pumps and other Tools for Thinking:



I think point 1. is gigantically important, and gigantically ignored.

You've mistaken the net for someplace trying to find resolutions.

 

[zoltanspawn]

You've mistaken the net for someplace trying to find resolutions.

The internet is made of people. Some will try, some will not.

Probably most won't.

 

[TX-Beau]

The internet is made of people. Some will try, some will not.

Probably most won't.

I used to think that but really, people online behave differently than people in real life. You find a lot more peacemakers and manners if you actually have to look someone in the eye.

 

[MadeInBrazil]

I chose not to question myself if I believe in God or not. The universe is a vast, infinite place with an enormous amount of galaxies and possibly life forms. The more humanity goes after explanations, the more we get lost in a number of questions. And I have realized something fundamental to the human mind that isn't solvable by religion or science, and never will be: there will always be the fundamental question, and the answer is not 42.

Here's what I mean:

The Big Bang happened. Why? Because of this and that. But why this and that? Because that thing happened. Why did it happen? Why was there matter? What is matter? Just why did anything begin and from what, if before there was absolutely nothing? What is even the concept of nothingness if we've all always been in a full universe we'll never be able to explain?

In the same way, God may have created Earth. Why? Why is there a God? What created God? Was there a God before Him? Is he eternal and always existing? But why his existence?

And then you start questioning the books. How naive, these books. Human minds, incapable of ever explaining the why of existence, wrote books, heard voices, created fables and convinced the masses of theories and whatever, just to try and make sense of such existence. But it's inexplicable. There will never be an answer. Not through religion, not through science, not through anything we can understand. Like dimensions beyond the fourth (if you consider time to be a dimension, that is).

So do I believe in God? There might be one, I don't know and never will (neither will anyone, not for sure). Is there a heaven? Don't know, we'll find out when we get there. Do I believe in religious books? Absolutely not, but they made up some good moral codes so I thank them for that. Basically, live and let live. All we can do is be good people.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm going to boil that down to two questions you seem to be conflating.

WHY and WHAT? Why can mean a number of things, why does water freeze, is a fundamentally different question than why does the universe exist. What is water is a different question still. "Science" does not attempt to define ANYTHING that isn't falsifiable, because if you can't disprove it, you can't ever prove it either.

Science, has absolutely nothing to say about religious whats and metaphorical whys - it can only be used to define, the corporeal whats, and observational whys.

If you actually want to approach the metaphysical logically (and really who really wants to do that?) you have to start by questioning the assumptions first. So the first why isn't why is there a universe, it's why must there be a why, not what created god but what is god?

On this board we overwhelmingly just assume Judeo-Christian mythology, but there are a thousand other definitions of "god" before you ever get to WHAT created God.

Will there ever be an answer? Who knows, certainly when the idea that tiny germs caused disease became accepted, subatomic theory was absolutely unimaginable.

My personal feeling is that the one commonality of religion and science is that they are both born of human curiosity, both tools used to understand the universe, If I trust science, it's because science grants us millions of large and small miracles every day, and I can't remember the last time someone rose from the dead.

I do have faith in science!!!!

 

[jbrown329]

I'm a Pastafarian. Ramen.

 

[cummuncher24]

I choose to believe that in the grand scheme of things, yes god does exist. However, my definition of god is a little different. Do i believe in the god that supposedly created the world in 7 days. Absolutely not. I believe that god is essentially a creator and destroyer. Something that everyone and everything on this planet is. Thats why I believe that all of us are god. We are essentially creators and destroyers. If that makes sense to you all.

 

[kingpin50]

Yes, I believe in God. There are certain parts of my life that are centered around my faith. What I don't believe in is trying to cram my faith down someone else's throat.

 

[Telstra]

Believers should understand that the best answer is "i don't know"
if they don't have any evidence and stop making stuff up.